Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) MLBTraderumors suggested that the White Sox might target Salty in their Offseason Outlook piece: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/offs...-white-sox.html I've been all about going for McCann, especially if we miss Abreu, because he can provide substantial value down the road, even if he needs to move off of C in a couple seasons. But the more time passes, the more I think he's going to be more expensive than the Sox would/should pay. And while Flowers/Phegley are young, I haven't seen anything at all to suggest that either is likely to end up as an above average ML regular. So now I'm wondering if Jarrod Saltalamacchia might not be a good get for us. My perception of him has never been that good, but taking a closer look, he's somewhat quietly had a really nice season. PROS: - He's 28 - He's left-handed - He grades out as an above average defensive catcher - MLBTR suggested he might cost something like 4yr/$36m - He's got a respectable walk rate (~8%), which finally led to decent on base numbers this year CONS: - He is ATROCIOUS against lefties - He's coming off a breakout season. Tough to tell if it's improvement or a fluke - He strikes out a TON (~30%) I'm thinking you could platoon him and thus still take a decent look at Flowers or Phegley. He wouldn't be a pick up that would swing us into contention by himself, but since he's relatively young, he might be a good building block. What do you think? http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=C Edited October 16, 2013 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Being atrocious against lefties is not a big deal because I believe that, save for freaks of nature like AJ Pierzynski, expecting anything more than 120 games out of a catcher is entirely unreasonable and even unhealthy, and logic says that one of Flowers and Phegley should be able to man the backup position and hit lefties at a good clip. I don't hate the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Salty's the next logical option if you miss out on McCann. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The "atrocious against lefties" thing scares me. Going into his Age 29 season. I don't know. I'd probably be happy if they signed him, but my gut is telling me this isn't the time to hand out 4-year contracts unless they land Abreu or break the bank for McCann--which is highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Salty would be a decent pickup and I wouldn't necessarily be against signing him, but if we are signing a free agent catcher I'd much rather it be McCann even with the additional $5 million or so per year price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I wonder, too, if this might be better if we get Abreu also. If Abreu costs us $8-10m/yr and clogs 1B, giving Salty $8m/yr to stick at C would leave us with more flexibility than giving McCann $15-18m/yr to start at C and eventually clog 1B and force Abreu to DH. Salty/Abreu leaves a spot open for Dunn next year and the chance to sign any bat-only player to fill DH after that -- or use the DH spot as a rotating rest thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I know 28 isn't young, but for some reason I thought Salty was older. I'd be okay with signing him if the Sox miss out on McCann. There was an article today about McCann maybe commanding a $100 million deal. I don't know how realistic that is, but I doubt the Sox are going to sign a contract like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:46 AM) I know 28 isn't young, but for some reason I thought Salty was older. I'd be okay with signing him if the Sox miss out on McCann. There was an article today about McCann maybe commanding a $100 million deal. I don't know how realistic that is, but I doubt the Sox are going to sign a contract like that. I saw that too. 6/100 was the number they threw out which averages about $16.67 million per. I highly doubt he gets that. He might approach the $16 million per year average, but I don't think any team is going to give out a 6 year guaranteed contract to a 30 year old catcher. I could realistically see teams offering in the 4/55-60 range with a vesting/team option at the end. If it's around that number, I'd like to see the Sox be players for him. Edited October 16, 2013 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why wouldn't the Red Sox re-sign him? Who do they realistically have going forward for C duties? Would they go after McCann? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) Why wouldn't the Red Sox re-sign him? Who do they realistically have going forward for C duties? Would they go after McCann? There's been talk of that. Blake Swihart is a possibility a few years down the line too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Having a platoon of Saltalamacchia and the better of Flowers/Phegley is fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) I saw that too. 6/100 was the number they threw out which averages about $16.67 million per. I highly doubt he gets that. He might approach the $16 million per year average, but I don't think any team is going to give out a 6 year guaranteed contract to a 30 year old catcher. I could realistically see teams offering in the 4/55-60 range with a vesting/team option at the end. If it's around that number, I'd like to see the Sox be players for him. When it comes to top free agents, you pretty much take what you think is a dumb offer, add 10% and another year or two. 6/100 probably isn't crazy to expect to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) MLBTR says that the Sox may have to potentially surrender their 2nd RD pick to sign Salty. If that's the case, I give it a big HELL NO. But for us to give up a pick means the Red Sox would have to offer Salty a qualifying offer, which is like $14M or something. How would he not take that 1 yr deal? Edited October 16, 2013 by Chilihead90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) MLBTR says that the Sox may have to potentially surrender their 2nd RD pick to sign Salty. If that's the case, I give it a big HELL NO. But for us to give up a pick means the Red Sox would have to offer Salty a qualifying offer, which is like $14M or something. How would he not take that 1 yr deal? Does anyone want to throw out a legit guess at Salty's contract? If he's talking 3/$30 or more, then that could certainly be worth turning down a qualifying offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 05:39 PM) Does anyone want to throw out a legit guess at Salty's contract? If he's talking 3/$30 or more, then that could certainly be worth turning down a qualifying offer. I have a sneaky feeling the Sox are going to go the rebuilding route and not pay big bucks for any of these guys, who all have some flaws. If McCann is 30, that's too old to throw 100 million at I'm guessing and if Salty gets 5-6 years, Sox will certainly pass on that too IMO. I'd suspect if Grandy doesn't want to break the bank, he might be a guy they sign. Same with Abreu if he doesn't want astronomical dollars or if nobody is willing to give him astronomical years/dollars. I could picture the Sox giving Phegley a full season. And now that I think of it, I could see the Kepp/Gillaspie platoon happening. Glad I dropped my automatic renewal on mlb.com. Edited October 16, 2013 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Giving Granderson 3 years and $45 million is crazy. Even though the White Sox don't know how to draft, I hate losing a second round pick for Salty AND paying him $36 million over 4 seasons. One of the ideas suggested was Chris Young in CF. It also gave the impression Morales was going to turn down a 1 year deal from the M's for $14 million. That means Morales is probably out of the Sox price range and it would be better to gamble on Abreu, even though I still believe he's going to be a bust. Ellsbury and Choo, forget it, based on the Pence deal. Same thing with McCann. I would rather swing for the fences (Abreu/Cespedes/Puig/Soler/Viciedo) than go with players like Granderson, Salty and Morales who are nice/decent additions but aren't going to make the White Sox playoff contenders. Same with Andre Ethier, for example. And, finally, is DeAza actually a good deal at $4.4 million? How would other teams perceive him on the trade market? As a starter for 4th outfielder. Because it's not wise to pay Jeff Keppingers and DeAza's of the world that kind of money to be bench depth/back-ups. If you're a playoff contender, it's a different story. Edited October 16, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) And, finally, is DeAza actually a good deal at $4.4 million? How would other teams perceive him on the trade market? As a starter for 4th outfielder. Because it's not wise to pay Jeff Keppingers and DeAza's of the world that kind of money to be bench depth/back-ups. If you're a playoff contender, it's a different story. Yes, he's a solid deal at $4.4 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) Does anyone want to throw out a legit guess at Salty's contract? If he's talking 3/$30 or more, then that could certainly be worth turning down a qualifying offer. I can see the bidding go up to 4/$40m Under the right circumstances, I'd be comfortable with us going there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) Yes, he's a solid deal at $4.4 million. More solid than Beckham, IMO. (Beckham defenders, those of you who are left, please feel free to jump into the fray.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) More solid than Beckham, IMO. (Beckham defenders, those of you who are left, please feel free to jump into the fray.) (He gets one more year.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) Giving Granderson 3 years and $45 million is crazy. Even though the White Sox don't know how to draft, I hate losing a second round pick for Salty AND paying him $36 million over 4 seasons. One of the ideas suggested was Chris Young in CF. It also gave the impression Morales was going to turn down a 1 year deal from the M's for $14 million. That means Morales is probably out of the Sox price range and it would be better to gamble on Abreu, even though I still believe he's going to be a bust. Ellsbury and Choo, forget it, based on the Pence deal. Same thing with McCann. I would rather swing for the fences (Abreu/Cespedes/Puig/Soler/Viciedo) than go with players like Granderson, Salty and Morales who are nice/decent additions but aren't going to make the White Sox playoff contenders. Same with Andre Ethier, for example. And, finally, is DeAza actually a good deal at $4.4 million? How would other teams perceive him on the trade market? As a starter for 4th outfielder. Because it's not wise to pay Jeff Keppingers and DeAza's of the world that kind of money to be bench depth/back-ups. If you're a playoff contender, it's a different story. If De Aza is a starter, he's worth that easy. Market generally pays ~$5m per WAR, and he's can be expected to produce 2 WAR safely. As a bench player, probably not, unless he's the strong part of a platoon. To me, Granderson/Morales or any other clear short term rental is out of the question, not because we don't have the payroll, but because of the cost of a draft pick. I'd give up the pick to get my starting C for the next five years, but not for a has-been to bridge a gap and make the fans think we're trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Wasn't he the guy who got the "yips" and couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) (He gets one more year.) Agreed, with the caveat being that he can lose his job to an internal candidate if that's how it rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) Wasn't he the guy who got the "yips" and couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher? Wasn't that Major League 2? And wasn't he cured by looking at a Victoria's Secret catalog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 16, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Wasn't that Major League 2? And wasn't he cured by looking at a Victoria's Secret catalog? Now we know what our defense needs to do in Spring Training! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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