Pants Rowland Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) Not a ton Middlebrooks could have done after the fact, besides trying to move towards the middle of the infield quicker to get out of the way (most players don't have a great understanding of obstruction to begin with, so it's usually not the first thing on their mind). Laying there certainly wasn't the way to go. That, and then raising his legs which had nothing to do with trying to get up. Hell, this isn't the rule, but for all the people trying to say "it should be based on intent," you could make an easy argument intent was there. Legs up, then down, then oh wait he's going to run home, legs up again. Defender has the right to make a play on a batted ball in the baseline, at which point it's the baserunner's right, and duty, to run outside the baseline to avoid collision and interference. And yeah, he has a right to that ball as the play is actually being made, not after the ball is in the outfield. At that point, it doesn't matter that he tried to make a play and was close. It's the same as if there was no play near him and he just sat in in the base line trying to obstruct him. Everyone's just starting to rally around "well what was he supposed to do?" But again, he's obstructing a base runner, who has a right to an unobstructed path towards home. You can't just ignore that, which is what a lot of people are doing. If Middlebrooks isn't in the baseline, which he had no right to be at that point, he scores easily and the game is over. He was only out because Middlebrooks obstructed him. It's pretty black and white. See, this is the thing that bugs me the most about that play. Red Sox fans want to find a way to make the play legal and the sports journalists want to generate controversy so there is a story to sell. But, I have not heard a lot said about the way he moved his legs. There is no way he was trying to get up with such a move and it is pretty easy to assume that the intent was to obstruct. If he tried to do a burpee type move and his butt tripped up the runner, I could understand the lack of intent argument since that is probably the quickest type of move to get yourself up of the ground in that situation. But he clearly made a motion that a kid on the playground will do to salvage a desperate situation. Even though it does not matter, the intent WAS clearly there and the second time he raised his legs, all doubt was erased. He knew the missed ball would lead to the run and in desperation he lifted his legs and hoped he would not be called. But, in a nod toward the Moises Alous of the world, rather than owning up to his actions after the fact, he has now let this be elevated to World Series controversy lore. What's worse is the deafening silence thus far by the experts that have failed to call him out for his actions. Whether intent matters or not, the public outcry needs to be quashed by someone with the guts to call Middlebrooks on his bush league play. He not only obstructed the runner, but he wanted to obstruct him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I saw a picture on another board that showed Joyce was looking the other way when Craig first made contact with Middlebrooks. So I don't even think Joyce saw Middlebrooks legs up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Was anyone listening to that? What in the hell did mccarver just say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 06:52 PM) I saw a picture on another board that showed Joyce was looking the other way when Craig first made contact with Middlebrooks. So I don't even think Joyce saw Middlebrooks legs up. But he saw him lying in the baseline and the collision. And the home plate ump had it too. QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 07:21 PM) Was anyone listening to that? What in the hell did mccarver just say? Yeah, that was something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Bucholz looks like a Duck Dynasty side character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 08:03 PM) But he saw him lying in the baseline and the collision. And the home plate ump had it too. Yeah, that was something. Missed it. What did he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 08:50 PM) Missed it. What did he say? I wish I could write it word for word. It was a rambling, incoherent mess. I am not even sure what he was trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 05:38 PM) See, this is the thing that bugs me the most about that play. Red Sox fans want to find a way to make the play legal and the sports journalists want to generate controversy so there is a story to sell. But, I have not heard a lot said about the way he moved his legs. There is no way he was trying to get up with such a move and it is pretty easy to assume that the intent was to obstruct. If he tried to do a burpee type move and his butt tripped up the runner, I could understand the lack of intent argument since that is probably the quickest type of move to get yourself up of the ground in that situation. But he clearly made a motion that a kid on the playground will do to salvage a desperate situation. Even though it does not matter, the intent WAS clearly there and the second time he raised his legs, all doubt was erased. He knew the missed ball would lead to the run and in desperation he lifted his legs and hoped he would not be called. But, in a nod toward the Moises Alous of the world, rather than owning up to his actions after the fact, he has now let this be elevated to World Series controversy lore. What's worse is the deafening silence thus far by the experts that have failed to call him out for his actions. Whether intent matters or not, the public outcry needs to be quashed by someone with the guts to call Middlebrooks on his bush league play. He not only obstructed the runner, but he wanted to obstruct him. I agree with this completely. QUOTE (MAX @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 09:09 PM) I wish I could write it word for word. It was a rambling, incoherent mess. I am not even sure what he was trying to say. He started off talking about how he thinks the rule should be changed to include intent (which is stupid), but then kept changing what he was trying to say, then kept starting his thought/sentence over, about 4 different times. It was ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Lol you know sometimes Buck is thinking "why me?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Haha...I think I'm the only McCarver apologist alive, but he really doesn't bother me. I actually think he brings a lot to the broadcast that is fine in a baseball broadcast, but that wouldn't really work in a sport that actually requires a lot of analysis. I guess I'd rather have a guy that's easy to listen to than a guy that might be a better analyst but whom I find it difficult to listen to (Buck Martinez). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Lo f***in L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 27, 2013 -> 09:09 PM) Haha...I think I'm the only McCarver apologist alive, but he really doesn't bother me. I actually think he brings a lot to the broadcast that is fine in a baseball broadcast, but that wouldn't really work in a sport that actually requires a lot of analysis. I guess I'd rather have a guy that's easy to listen to than a guy that might be a better analyst but whom I find it difficult to listen to (Buck Martinez). I don't particularly mind him. Certainly, I don't actively hate him like many seem to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 @BestFansStLouis is a sight to behold after that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 28, 2013 -> 05:38 AM) @BestFansStLouis is a sight to behold after that game. You know what, none of that racism surprises me considering these are the best fans in baseball we're talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 So the last two games have ended on an error and a pickoff. I don't need to watch this. I saw this 162 times this year already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I heard them call Wong's name as I was laying in bed, about to fall asleep. I started thinking about all the guys they have on the playoff roster that weren't on the MLB roster until late in the season (Wacha, Martinez). I thought, it's great to get all your talent on the roster for the stretch run, but not screwing up their development in the year. But then...I thought, is it bad to replace veterans with guys with such little experience? Then Wong got picked off. Adron Chambers was cackling in his house somewhere. Also, Jonny Gomes hit that home run and I couldn't help but think, "for a team to win a World Series, you need a guy like Jonny Gomes to have a great season for you." Gomes isn't amazing, but the best teams always have guys like that playing over their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 28, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) I heard them call Wong's name as I was laying in bed, about to fall asleep. I started thinking about all the guys they have on the playoff roster that weren't on the MLB roster until late in the season (Wacha, Martinez). I thought, it's great to get all your talent on the roster for the stretch run, but not screwing up their development in the year. But then...I thought, is it bad to replace veterans with guys with such little experience? Then Wong got picked off. Adron Chambers was cackling in his house somewhere. Also, Jonny Gomes hit that home run and I couldn't help but think, "for a team to win a World Series, you need a guy like Jonny Gomes to have a great season for you." Gomes isn't amazing, but the best teams always have guys like that playing over their heads. Gomes wasn't even in the first starting line up. Victorino was a late minute scratch due to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 MLB Public Relations @MLB_PR 1h Overall, #WorldSeries averaging 8.4 rating, best through 4 games since 2009. Ratings & viewership (14 million avg) both up +11%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 if you google St Louis Cardinals and look at the description...well...just do it quickly before it is changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 28, 2013 -> 04:32 PM) if you google St Louis Cardinals and look at the description...well...just do it quickly before it is changed Too late now, what did it say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 28, 2013 -> 05:14 PM) Too late now, what did it say? The St Louis Cardinals are a gay butt sex team based in St Louis Missouri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Somebody drug test Big Papi. En fuego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) The reason some hitters have trouble with a cut fastball is that it cuts, I've just been informed by Tim McCarver. Awesome full-swing check swing by Wainwright. Edited October 29, 2013 by Swingandalongonetoleft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 aw hamburgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I think the Cards are going to win game 6 with Wacha going. The Sox would be smart to go with Lackey in game 7 and not game 6. Edited October 29, 2013 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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