Center Field

[BlackSox13]

Found this at SSS...

 

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/11/17/511...ite-sox-payroll

 

This tells the tale.

Edited December 4, 2013 by StRoostifer

[southsider2k5]

We're talking about an operating budget, not a cash flow budget. Obviously Abreu is getting paid this year, but that doesn't mean it's not being allocated to Hahn's operating budget (i.e. payroll) in equal installments over the next 6 years. In fact, I would be surprised if that wasnt the case to be honest with you.

 

If they are paying it now, why would they budget it in the future? I mean for salary cap purposes, sure, but for operations, it is still the same hit.

[BlackSox13]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/11/17/511...ite-sox-payroll

 

"During the general managers meetings, Hahn estimated the current payroll at $80 million, so that probably means he's lumping Jose Abreu's $10 million salary bonus as part of the 2014 budget, although only a prorated portion will be accounted for on the official Opening Day payrolls."

 

One more time...

[2nd_city_saint787]

Major League Baseball

 

Alone among the big four professional sports leagues, Major League Baseball has no salary cap, but it does have a luxury tax. Rather than a hard cap, the luxury tax penalizes teams whose payroll is over an annually determined maximum. The teams pay a sliding percentage of the amount over the limit, depending on how often they exceed it. Teams pay large signing bonuses, and the overall effect is similar to a salary cap. The teams can spread the bonuses over several years to reduce the effect on their payroll.

 

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/effect-sign...-cap-38630.html

 

No time stamp on the article so I'm not sure when it came out or if things have changed recently.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Major League Baseball

 

Alone among the big four professional sports leagues, Major League Baseball has no salary cap, but it does have a luxury tax. Rather than a hard cap, the luxury tax penalizes teams whose payroll is over an annually determined maximum. The teams pay a sliding percentage of the amount over the limit, depending on how often they exceed it. Teams pay large signing bonuses, and the overall effect is similar to a salary cap. The teams can spread the bonuses over several years to reduce the effect on their payroll.

 

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/effect-sign...-cap-38630.html

 

No time stamp on the article so I'm not sure when it came out or if things have changed recently.

That's in order to minimize the luxury tax payment, it doesn't have anything to do with when they're booking the salary on the budget.

[2nd_city_saint787]

That's in order to minimize the luxury tax payment, it doesn't have anything to do with when they're booking the salary on the budget.

 

So what you're telling me is, all they're doing is spreading it out on paper but really paying all the money up front? that doesn't sound right.

[Chicago White Sox]

If they are paying it now, why would they budget it in the future? I mean for salary cap purposes, sure, but for operations, it is still the same hit.

Because how and when you pay for an asset is a financing cash flow, not an operating cash flow. That $10M isn't related to just the 2014 season, but all 6 seasons he's under team control. In a normal business environment, the signing bonus would be spread across all six years in a operating budget, but recognized immedietely in a capital budget. Obviously baseball is a different animal, so I can't say anything with certainty. Just thinking about this from a general FP&A perspective.

[Reddy]

Well, the Rockies just traded Fowler to Houston for an outfielder Brandon Barnes and a pitcher Jordan Lyles. Not much. I thought Fowler had more value than that. Of course, the two headed GM for the Rox are not the brightest, to put it mildly.

For that price we could've gotten him easily and extended him. The kid gets on BASE which is something our team hasn't been able to do it.... well... ever.

[cabiness42]

So what you're telling me is, all they're doing is spreading it out on paper but really paying all the money up front? that doesn't sound right.

 

That's exactly what happens. A signing bonus, unless specified otherwise, is 100% paid up front. However, for MLB's formula for calculating annual team payroll, the amount is spread out over the life of the contract. The Sox are never going to push the luxury tax figure anyway, so this doesn't really matter to them.

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

For that price we could've gotten him easily and extended him. The kid gets on BASE which is something our team hasn't been able to do it.... well... ever.

 

In his career, his numbers away from Coors Field: .241/.333/.361/.694. He almost certainly would not perform that poorly elsewhere, but I don't think you can safely say he's anything more than a .250/.350/.375 player with mediocre defense in CF. What's the difference between him, De Aza, and Gregor Blanco?

 

I'm glad the Sox stayed away.

[Reddy]

In his career, his numbers away from Coors Field: .241/.333/.361/.694. He almost certainly would not perform that poorly elsewhere, but I don't think you can safely say he's anything more than a .250/.350/.375 player with mediocre defense in CF. What's the difference between him, De Aza, and Gregor Blanco?

 

I'm glad the Sox stayed away.

You realize the cell = coors field

[southsider2k5]

You realize the cell = coors field

 

For this type of hitter? No. Coors has deep fences and huge gaps which makes it a speedsters paradise. It turns singles to doubles, and doubles to triples. USCF is the exact opposite.

[witesoxfan]

You realize the cell = coors field

 

As ss2k noted, they are entirely different ballparks. USCF supresses averages, which is why you don't see many guys hit .300 here, let alone .320 or .330, while more balls will typically leave the ballpark. The AL equivalent to Coors is the Ballpark in Arlington (or whatever it's called now a days).

[ILMOU]

According to Fangraphs, his UZR through 5,000 innings so far is -40.6, that is in the range of horrific defender. And his pedestrian offense could actually be beneficiary of the Coors effect.

 

The only reasonable OF candidate I would want from the NL West is Parra and Chris Denorfia.

 

UZR doesn't seem to work very well for Coors Field at all. The vast spread of the outfielders may be the culprit here. For years, UZR had Matt Holliday a better fielder than Cargo, which is just silly.

 

Oldsox will likely back up my own eye test that says both Dexter and Cargo are very good Ofers. Also, UZR generally sucks balls. It's inventor, John Dewan, readily acknowledges its faults and limitations. Until the exact positions and movements of fielders are determined with GPS technology - I propose sensors sewn into the belts of uniforms, if you can get it through the union - defensive metrics will be dicey. Better data will reflect much better judgments on which plays should or shouldn't be made.

 

I'm a saber guy, but I also believe that the metrics so many hang their hat on, UZR and Fip particularly, will, before long, be viewed with the same contempt and disdain that many of us now view BA.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[oldsox]

UZR doesn't seem to work very well for Coors Field at all. The vast spread of the outfielders may be the culprit here. For years, UZR had Matt Holliday a better fielder than Cargo, which is just silly.

 

Oldsox will likely back up my own eye test that says both Dexter and Cargo are very good Ofers. Also, UZR generally sucks balls. It's inventor, John Dewan, readily acknowledges its faults and limitations. Until the exact positions and movements of fielders are determined with GPS technology - I propose sensors sewn into the belts of uniforms, if you can get it through the union - defensive metrics will be dicey. Better data will reflect much better judgments on which plays should or shouldn't be made.

 

I'm a saber guy, but I also believe that the metrics so many hang their hat on, UZR and Fip particularly, will, before long, be viewed with the same contempt and disdain that many of us now view BA.

Yes, I affirm your para # 2. Both are excellent in field. Cargo one of the very best. Fowler would have been a huge upgrade for Sox. His lifetime stats are irrelevent, because he was brought up way too early and was just then learning to switch hit. Last year he had three injuries. The kid can play. Too late now.

[ILMOU]

Yes, I affirm your para # 2. Both are excellent in field. Cargo one of the very best. Fowler would have been a huge upgrade for Sox. His lifetime stats are irrelevent, because he was brought up way too early and was just then learning to switch hit. Last year he had three injuries. The kid can play. Too late now.

 

I would have preferred his upside to Bourjous (sp?) by a mile, and his defense is a lot better than folks are giving credit for. Still, Dahl and the other OF prospects aren't knocking down the door, so I'm guessing there has been some frustration with his failure to "turn the corner" as a consistent bat. Maybe, as you suggest, they should have been a bit more patient.

 

I had no idea he would be available, did you?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[oldsox]

I would have preferred his upside to Bourjous (sp?) by a mile, and his defense is a lot better than folks are giving credit for. Still, Dahl and the other OF prospects aren't knocking down the door, so I'm guessing there has been some frustration with his failure to "turn the corner" as a consistent bat. Maybe, as you suggest, they should have been a bit more patient.

I had no idea he would be available, did you?

 

Yes, the Purple Row blog mentioned it a few days ago, after Dan O"Dowd ripped him in the press. Plus, when I opened this thread several weeks ago, it was in direct response to Fowler rumors.

Edited December 5, 2013 by oldsox

[ILMOU]

[/b]Yes, the Purple Row blog mentioned it a few days ago, after Dan O"Dowd ripped him in the press. Plus, when I opened this thread several weeks ago, it was in direct response to Fowler rumors.

 

I'm in a cave here in Clear Creek Canyon, impenetrable to local airwaves, apparently. Wasn't aware that O'Dowd had said anything. I'm going to blame the "all Broncos all the time" nature of the local sports media for my glaring ignorance.

 

BTW, is it Blackmon they're projecting as a starter now?

 

EDIT: just checked and it seems Blackmon is the guy. nvm.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[harfman77]

I'm in a cave here in Clear Creek Canyon, impenetrable to local airwaves, apparently. Wasn't aware that O'Dowd had said anything. I'm going to blame the "all Broncos all the time" nature of the local sports media for my glaring ignorance.

 

BTW, is it Blackmon they're projecting as a starter now?

 

EDIT: just checked and it seems Blackmon is the guy. nvm.

 

Sounds like they are moving CarGo to CF and bringing in Dickerson.