SoxnGiants Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 We just want our hitters to swing at and hit strikes and be able to take walks when they are given to you," Steverson said. "Obviously, high on-base percentage throughout the lineup turns into runs, which turns into wins, if you want to work with that formula. Deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'm all for seeing more pitches, but I like the idea of 'hey, it's a strike, swing at it!'. So tired of Sox batters watching strike one right down the middle, then swinging at ball one in the dirt for strike 2. Hope it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'm down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 He's saying the right things. Does he speak spanish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I am reading his quotes and he appears to be saying the exact same things Manto was saying. Even mentioning going out of the zone once in a while. As far as swinging at strikes, I don't think there is a hitting coach who doesn't preach that. The fact is, the fewer strikes you have on you, the more selective you can be. I think everyone knows that from when they started playing Little League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:25 AM) I am reading his quotes and he appears to be saying the exact same things Manto was saying. Even mentioning going out of the zone once in a while. As far as swinging at strikes, I don't think there is a hitting coach who doesn't preach that. The fact is, the fewer strikes you have on you, the more selective you can be. I think everyone knows that from when they started playing Little League. They obviously did not feel Manto was doing it the right way though, would you agree? And they feel Steverson will. That's why the change has been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 08:28 AM) They obviously did not feel Manto was doing it the right way though, would you agree? And they feel Steverson will. That's why the change has been made. Ahh luv it when you analyze... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:25 AM) I am reading his quotes and he appears to be saying the exact same things Manto was saying. Even mentioning going out of the zone once in a while. As far as swinging at strikes, I don't think there is a hitting coach who doesn't preach that. The fact is, the fewer strikes you have on you, the more selective you can be. I think everyone knows that from when they started playing Little League. If they know that, they don't ever seem to act like it. Alexei Ramirez, Dayan Viciedo, Avisail Garcia, and Josh Phegley swing at horrible pitches early in the count with startling regularity. He said sometimes you need to go out of the zone depending upon what a pitcher is trying to do to you, which still requires being selective about pitch location, it just means that the zone where you're looking to hit may shift. This is starkly different than the concept of expanding the zone for the sake of driving runners in, which we heard from Manto. This is completely ignorant to (1) the fact that you decrease your chances to be successful by expanding the zone for the sake of putting a ball in play and (2) the fact that you must establish the boundaries of your strike zone with a pitcher in order to force the pitcher to stop throwing bad pitches to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:28 AM) They obviously did not feel Manto was doing it the right way though, would you agree? And they feel Steverson will. That's why the change has been made. I guess what I am getting it is Manto, who was praised last season, caught a lot of flake about his "philosophy" this year. This guy has pretty much an identical thought process about hitting. We will see what happens. As far as Manto goes, I think the Sox probably tried to determine if guys like Viciedo and Beckham would flourish under him, and probably came away with a probably not answer. They generally haven't used scapegoats when they have struggled. I would think, since they hired him after 4 years as the Sox minor league hitting coordinator and were very familiar with him, they agree with his philosophy, which is probably why they hired someone with a similar thought process hoping he can do something or say something that works better on the younger players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'd have liked to hire someone out of the Red Sox system...but I suppose this is close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:33 AM) If they know that, they don't ever seem to act like it. Alexei Ramirez, Dayan Viciedo, Avisail Garcia, and Josh Phegley swing at horrible pitches early in the count with startling regularity. He said sometimes you need to go out of the zone depending upon what a pitcher is trying to do to you, which still requires being selective about pitch location, it just means that the zone where you're looking to hit may shift. This is starkly different than the concept of expanding the zone for the sake of driving runners in, which we heard from Manto. This is completely ignorant to (1) the fact that you decrease your chances to be successful by expanding the zone for the sake of putting a ball in play and (2) the fact that you must establish the boundaries of your strike zone with a pitcher in order to force the pitcher to stop throwing bad pitches to you. If you really think a month or a year with a new hitting coach is going to make Ramirez, Viciedo, or Garcia more selective, I have some Sears stock to sell you. They have played under multiple hitting coaches their entire lives but still have the same approach. I don't think there is much hope for Alexei to improve on that. As you do get a little older, sometimes you do get a little wiser, so maybe Viciedo and Garcia can become more selective, but odds are against it being anything drastic. I have no problems with this guy. I would just say if you really think the hitting coach is going to increase everyone's OBP 30 or 40 points, you probably need rehab. Edited October 25, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) If you really think a month or a year with a new hitting coach is going to make Ramirez, Viciedo, or Garcia more selective, I have some Sears stock to sell you. They have played under multiple hitting coaches their entire lives but still have the same approach. I don't think there is much hope for Alexei to improve on that. As you do get a little older, sometimes you do get a little wiser, so maybe Viciedo and Garcia can become more selective, but odds are against it being anything drastic. If you show no signs of even trying to change habits which are NOT a matter of muscle memory after a year, that means you're not coachable or not capable. I can think of no industry where showing zero progress over the course of a year doesn't get you fired. So either those guys are unsalvagably bad, refuse to take direction, or it's the coach's fault for being unclear or having a bad philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy esposito Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:04 AM) I'm all for seeing more pitches, but I like the idea of 'hey, it's a strike, swing at it!'. So tired of Sox batters watching strike one right down the middle, then swinging at ball one in the dirt for strike 2. Hope it works. My opinion that is all good but the idea is to put the bat on the ball. I've seen some beautiful swings but unless the bat hits the ball, you've got nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) I have no problems with this guy. I would just say if you really think the hitting coach is going to increase everyone's OBP 30 or 40 points, you probably need rehab. If that's out of the question, why are we even rostering Viciedo, Garcia, Phegley, Flowers, Beckham, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Seems like this guy's philosophy is geared towards solving a problem that we don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:43 AM) If you show no signs of even trying to change habits which are NOT a matter of muscle memory after a year, that means you're not coachable or not capable. I can think of no industry where showing zero progress over the course of a year doesn't get you fired. So either those guys are unsalvagably bad, refuse to take direction, or it's the coach's fault for being unclear or having a bad philosophy. We will see what happens. This guy comes from Oakland, Beane has emphasised getting on base when stocking his lower levels. Hitting is hard. You can know exactly what you are doing wrong and what you need to do to fix it, and still not be able to do it. If this guy can make Garcia and Viciedo stars and on base machines, he will be worth his weight in gold. But guys still chase pitches. There are some built in things with hitters that are very difficult to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:56 AM) We will see what happens. This guy comes from Oakland, Beane has emphasised getting on base when stocking his lower levels. Hitting is hard. You can know exactly what you are doing wrong and what you need to do to fix it, and still not be able to do it. If this guy can make Garcia and Viciedo stars and on base machines, he will be worth his weight in gold. But guys still chase pitches. There are some built in things with hitters that are very difficult to change. I agree with you absolutely on this. There's pitch selection and then there's pitch recognition. One is a plan, the other is a skill that not everyone can develop. The coach needs to teach the plan and assess the skill. If players don't have the ability, they need to be cut. I would assume that since the players we have are all still here but the coach is gone, the organization believes it's the instruction that is faltering -- though I acknowledge there are a lot of politics and PR involved that may trump all. For example, I think Viciedo can't do it, because I see him look like he's deciding to take random pitches before they are even thrown, and half the time they're strikes. Then he swings at the next pitch above his eyes. He looks like he's trying but failing miserably. Alexei, on the other hand, has never done anything differently at the plate since we got him. He's getting gradually worse because pitchers are getting better at pitching to him and he's getting older and slower, and he refuses to adjust his game to stay on top. That could be his stubbornness or a failure in his instruction, not sure. But the fact remains that if Viciedo/Garcia CAN'T add 30-40 points to OBP, either through instruction or new skills, they will never even be average major league players. Edited October 25, 2013 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I'll never get excited or angry about a hitting coach hire, it's a wait and see for me. That being said, I'm sure we'll want him fired soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Was hoping for Tom Emanski personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Pitch recognition is affected a great deal by mechanics and approach. Viciedo's pitch recognition magically gets better when he keeps his weight back on his load step. This is because it gives his body and hands the chance to adjust to the pitch. When he or anyone else can't keep their weight back, there is usually just one pitch they can hit (whichever one they are timed for). Your mental approach will also affect pitch recognition. A guy with a really aggressive mindset will do poorly adjusting to offspeed pitches. If you back it off too much, you won't hit fastballs. Guys that struggle to hit fastballs will get so aggressive, trying to catch up to heaters, that they start swinging at bulls*** offspeed stuff because they are cheating so much mentally. There are so many things that affect pitch recognition that it is really fairly difficult to tell if a guy has it or not. Bad mechanics, approach, etc. can easily overshadow these things. If guys have bad mechanics, bad approach, and still rake, that probably means they have excellent pitch recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Hitting coach: least important coaching position in all of sports? I'd rank it just below NFL towel boy and slightly ahead of NBA mascot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) If you really think a month or a year with a new hitting coach is going to make Ramirez, Viciedo, or Garcia more selective, I have some Sears stock to sell you. They have played under multiple hitting coaches their entire lives but still have the same approach. I don't think there is much hope for Alexei to improve on that. As you do get a little older, sometimes you do get a little wiser, so maybe Viciedo and Garcia can become more selective, but odds are against it being anything drastic. I have no problems with this guy. I would just say if you really think the hitting coach is going to increase everyone's OBP 30 or 40 points, you probably need rehab. I generally agree that the preaching of patience at the major league with veterans will most likely not change them. However, this hire was made to have an impact on the minor league system to have a common philosophy taught and preached throughout the organization. That's why this is a big move in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (SoxnGiants @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 10:03 AM) Deal Good to see somebody on this coaching staff embracing walks. Edited October 25, 2013 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 12:09 PM) Was hoping for Tom Emanski personally. Back to back to back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN 16m Todd Steverson has been hired as #WhiteSox hitting coach, source confirms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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