Bourjos and Trumbo available for pitching

[Marty34]

The Sox are only going to get one chance to trade a SP and they have to find a better return than Bourjos.

[witesoxfan]

The Sox are only going to get one chance to trade a SP and they have to find a better return than Bourjos.

 

I seriously think they can get Bourjos with Snodgress/Beck plus Petricka

[Eminor3rd]

The Sox are only going to get one chance to trade a SP and they have to find a better return than Bourjos.

 

That's a fair statement, but what do you want instead? We're all so adamant about getting ML ready talent, but if you want it also to have cheap team control and upside, you're narrowing the field quite a bit. I'd prefer the speculated Lawrie swap, but this seems more realistic because the Angels are confirmed to be shopping him.

[mataipaepae]

what is the obsession with parra here. is he even on the block? why are we comparing a guy that is know to be on the block with one we fantasize with?

[glangon]

In the minors, Bourjos was a .291/.345/.455/.799 hitter. He never repeated a level, peaking at .303/.357/.493/.850 in AAA.

In the minors, Danks was a .267/.354/.423/.777 hitter. He was in his 4th season in AAA when the Sox called him up last year.

 

Bourjos is also a far, far better defender. Danks is generally rated as average to above average. Bourjos is rated incredible to best defensive outfielder in the game.

 

Yes, I would give up valuable pieces for Bourjos, not a doubt in my mind. He'd be a terrible leadoff hitter, but anywhere between 7th and 9th in the order would be awesome. He has the ceiling of an All-Star player.

 

If you take away average, the stats in the minors are not that much different. Danks with regular playing time at the end of last season was hitting consistantly and does have a sweet throwing arm.

 

Interesting how you post Bourjous peak in the minors but not Danks, for the argument sake - in 2012 for AAA Charlotte Jordan Danks hit .317/.428/.514/.942

 

Every stat there is better than Bourjous peak season in the minors.

 

What this comes down to is that you are arguing about trading away our 3rd / 4th rotation pitcher for a player who is not much better than our projected OF back up in 2014. I don't see how that has value long term. I would want better than that if I'm trading away Santiago. I definitely wouldn't trade Q for Bourjous.

 

As previous posters have said, we may have one shot at trading away a starting pitcher, I wouldn't want to waste it on Bourjous.

 

 

[Marty34]

That's a fair statement, but what do you want instead? We're all so adamant about getting ML ready talent, but if you want it also to have cheap team control and upside, you're narrowing the field quite a bit. I'd prefer the speculated Lawrie swap, but this seems more realistic because the Angels are confirmed to be shopping him.

 

I'd be disappointed if the Sox were looking at it that way. If Quintana could bring back Soler and Almora or some of the packages mentioned for Smardzija they'd be silly to turn those down when they have the available cast to reasonably replace him in the rotation via free agency.

[Eminor3rd]

I'd be disappointed if the Sox were looking at it that way. If Quintana could bring back Soler and Almora or some of the packages mentioned for Smardzija they'd be silly to turn those down when they have the available cast to reasonably replace him in the rotation via free agency.

 

I agree with you, but there's no way in hell Quintana could bring Soler OR Almora, let alone both. And I think the Cubs/media are way overestimating the value of Samardzija.

 

I'm not making an argument that Quintana isn't close to as valuable as those guys in my opinion, just that the current state of the trade market doesn't value him nearly as high as those types of prospects. There are only a handful of guys that will pry those names loose, and it's guys like Stanton.

[Eminor3rd]

I seriously think they can get Bourjos with Snodgress/Beck plus Petricka

 

It seems to me like the Angels want pitching that can contribute immediately. Those guys have a chance of contributing in 2014, but I don't think the Angels are in a position to use it as a "see what we have with some guys" type of year.

[witesoxfan]

If you take away average, the stats in the minors are not that much different. Danks with regular playing time at the end of last season was hitting consistantly and does have a sweet throwing arm.

 

Interesting how you post Bourjous peak in the minors but not Danks, for the argument sake - in 2012 for AAA Charlotte Jordan Danks hit .317/.428/.514/.942

 

Every stat there is better than Bourjous peak season in the minors.

 

What this comes down to is that you are arguing about trading away our 3rd / 4th rotation pitcher for a player who is not much better than our projected OF back up in 2014. I don't see how that has value long term. I would want better than that if I'm trading away Santiago. I definitely wouldn't trade Q for Bourjous.

 

As previous posters have said, we may have one shot at trading away a starting pitcher, I wouldn't want to waste it on Bourjous.

 

As I stated, Bourjos never repeated a level in the minors. He also showed great contact rates throughout. Danks struck out a ton and when Danks put up that line, it was his 3rd go around in AAA. I sure as hell hope by that point he's figured out AAA pitching.

 

What it comes down to is that I'm arguing about a potential All-Star player who could be the best defensive outfielder in the majors compared to a AAAA platoon player who strikes out too much who would be an afterthought if his brother weren't pitching for the White Sox.

 

I'm not saying I would necessarily trade Santiago, though I would consider it. I'm just saying that I want Bourjos.

[Eminor3rd]

If you take away average, the stats in the minors are not that much different. Danks with regular playing time at the end of last season was hitting consistantly and does have a sweet throwing arm.

 

Interesting how you post Bourjous peak in the minors but not Danks, for the argument sake - in 2012 for AAA Charlotte Jordan Danks hit .317/.428/.514/.942

 

Every stat there is better than Bourjous peak season in the minors.

 

What this comes down to is that you are arguing about trading away our 3rd / 4th rotation pitcher for a player who is not much better than our projected OF back up in 2014. I don't see how that has value long term. I would want better than that if I'm trading away Santiago. I definitely wouldn't trade Q for Bourjous.

 

As previous posters have said, we may have one shot at trading away a starting pitcher, I wouldn't want to waste it on Bourjous.

 

I think you have a point, but the fact of the matter is that Bourjos has a 4+ win season in the majors under his belt. Jordan Danks has never even SNIFFED that level of production. The tools match up but the results just don't.

[caulfield12]

Not sure playing 81 games per season in USCF is the right home park for Bourjos to take most advantage of his skill set...still, it would be a huge plus to have the best CF in baseball to cover all that ground between Viciedo and Garcia.

 

The only issue is the cost in terms of trade, and also figuring out what to do with DeAza.

Edited October 30, 2013 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

Not sure playing 81 games per season in USCF is the right home park for Bourjos to take most advantage of his skill set...still, it would be a huge plus to have the best CF in baseball to cover all that ground between Viciedo and Garcia.

 

The only issue is the cost in terms of trade, and also figuring out what to do with DeAza.

 

To me, the bigger question is what to do with Viciedo. I think De Aza will be a defensive asset in LF, making him an unquestionably better player on both sides of the ball. Obviously Viciedo has more upside, but with Abreu and possibly Konerko coming back, there's nowhere else to stick him for 2014.

[cabiness42]

To me, the bigger question is what to do with Viciedo. I think De Aza will be a defensive asset in LF, making him an unquestionably better player on both sides of the ball. Obviously Viciedo has more upside, but with Abreu and possibly Konerko coming back, there's nowhere else to stick him for 2014.

 

Places to stick him for 2014:

 

1) In a trade

 

2) On the nontender list

 

[Eminor3rd]

Places to stick him for 2014:

 

1) In a trade

 

2) On the nontender list

 

I'm very close to giving up on him, too. Not sure he has any trade value, though.

[Marty34]

I agree with you, but there's no way in hell Quintana could bring Soler OR Almora, let alone both. And I think the Cubs/media are way overestimating the value of Samardzija.

 

I'm not making an argument that Quintana isn't close to as valuable as those guys in my opinion, just that the current state of the trade market doesn't value him nearly as high as those types of prospects.There are only a handful of guys that will pry those names loose, and it's guys like Stanton.

 

The "trade market" is continually evolving. It's impossible to judge with any degree of accuracy what is an acceptable trade based on deals in the recent past.

[Eminor3rd]

The "trade market" is continually evolving. It's impossible to judge with any degree of accuracy what is an acceptable trade based on deals in the recent past.

 

That is a bold statement. With ANY degree of accuracy?

[Marty34]

That is a bold statement. With ANY degree of accuracy?

 

Point is you don't deal Quintana or Santiago for a guy like Bourjos because that was the best offer on the market. Bourjos is not a key piece for a team rebuilding, he's a 27 y.o. bottom-of-the-order hitter.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

what is the obsession with parra here. is he even on the block? why are we comparing a guy that is know to be on the block with one we fantasize with?

Because it's the off season and we assume everyone is tradeable. Teams generally don't have to make announcements that their players are available. I brought up Bourjos a week or 2 ago when the Angels had said Kendrick was available and lo and behold now they say Bourjos is available.

[bruni]

Remember when I started this post, I never imagined trading one of our starters - one for one - for Bourjos. I proposed trading a starter for Bourjos AND one of the Angel catchers - Conger or Iannetta. For a young, proven MLB #3/4 starter under team control, a return of Bourjos AND a major league experienced catcher is warrented. I also wanted the Angels' to throw in a minor leaguer to boot, so I am well aware of the premium needed to trade young, controllable pitching.

 

That said, let's look at a few key facts:

 

1. De Aza, who is on the wrong side of 30, just produced what is likely his best offensive season and what did it get the White Sox? 99 losses. To keep him, the WSox will need to anti up between $3 and $4.5 million through arbitration. For all the offensive production, the countless baserunning errors and other related brain dead plays exposed De Aza as who he is - a replacement level starter who hurts teams in the long run more than he helps. He should be long gone off this roster in 2014.

 

2. No way the White Sox will be without Alexi or Viciedo in 2014. Did you see the Abreu press conference yeaterday? No way the WSox take away the internal Cuban suport group for their new prize Abreu. WAY too much invested financially and otherwise for the WSox to do anything to compromise getting the very best of Abreu. Jose will have a hard enough time transitioning over - the WSox are going to give him as much support as possible which means Alexi and Viciedo stay through 2014.

 

3. Borjous has had tough luck with freak injuries but he is a gem. His defense helps cover for Viciedo in left and he is more than capable of matching the best of De Aza's offensive numbers from 2013 if starting every day. I have personally seen him play and practice in Arizona during spring training and the kid can HIT. He was consistantly out distancing home runs hit the same day by Hamilton and Poujos and his speed and pure baseball instincts are miles ahead of De Aza, Danks or any other pretender on the White Sox current 40 man roster. He is for real and the Angels are going to regret giving up on him. Let their loss be our gain!

 

All trades have risk, but it is clear that Hahn will not be shy about taking more risks and more action to improve the team. I agree that they lilely have just one bite of the trade a starter apple. I also believe that getting in return a potential gold glove center fielder just entering his prime and on the cheap ($1.1 mil) and for 3 years of team control PLUS acquiring a catcher like Conger that you can rotate with the winner of the Flowers/Phegley bake off to be the back up is filling two big holes. Now only 3rd base is the glaring weakness but a poi poi combo platter of Semien, Keppenger, Gallespie may be the best the WSox can do for 2014 unless something else falls into their lap.

 

1. Borjous

2. Semien

3. Garcia

4. Abreu

5. Dunn

6. Viciedo

7. Alexi

8. Conger

9. Beckham

 

World Series/Playoff bound - not a chance.

 

Better than the misery of 2013 - absolutely and now with several players entering prime years and upside potential.

[Marty34]

1. Borjous

2. Semien

3. Garcia

4. Abreu

5. Dunn

6. Viciedo

7. Alexi

8. Conger

9. Beckham

 

World Series/Playoff bound - not a chance.

 

Better than the misery of 2013 - absolutely and now with several players entering prime years and upside potential.

 

I don't think that lineup has enough upside for trading Quintana.

[2nd_city_saint787]

^ De Aza is 29 ATM, he'll be 30 next year. I hate the saying "wrong side of 30" if a 30 year old is "on the wrong side of 30" then there is no right side of 30.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

#1) De Aza had a better year in 2012 too, and he will absolutely be worth $3-4 million. There are arguments to be made that he's worth $8-10 mill.

#2) De Aza was at the press conference yesterday. Why, I'm uncertain, but it could be that he knows Abreu too.

#3) Agree on Bourjos. I love him.

 

I also don't see the upside of Conger. He's in the same boat as Flowers, except that he put up his minor league numbers in a very offense friendly environment. If the Sox acquire him, it better for a PTBNL sort of situation, not one where he holds substantial value.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I was just thinking the exact same thing about you #2 point so I'm glad you brought it up. I am a bit concerned with Bourjos fragile nature and that he hasn't had the chance to show what he can do after his 1st very good season. However that is precisely the reason he is being shopped. Just to be accurate DeAza doesn't turn 30 till April and I can't agree that 2013 was likely his best offensive season.

 

But I am a firm believer in strong fielding in CF going back to the days of Ken Berry. I think the Sox can compete next year especially if they think Ellsbury is a possible get though it's a longshot. Would be sweet to have a choice of who's to play in CF between Bourjos and Ellsbury. With Dunn coming off the books next year the idea of signing Ellsbury is not that much of a reach. But regardless of whether Ellsbury fits into the Sox plans Bourjos is possibly Ellsbury light and if we can acquire him you do your damnedest to see how the Angels view him.

 

I'm really looking forward to see how the offseason plays out. I think we're in for some surprising moves.

[Eminor3rd]

Point is you don't deal Quintana or Santiago for a guy like Bourjos because that was the best offer on the market. Bourjos is not a key piece for a team rebuilding, he's a 27 y.o. bottom-of-the-order hitter.

 

I agree with the first statement, but not the second. A run saved is a run scored, and Bourjos is arguably the best in the bigs in CF. And we were atrocious defensively. He's a 3-4 win player in a full season -- which would make him better than all of our position players last year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

#1) De Aza had a better year in 2012 too, and he will absolutely be worth $3-4 million. There are arguments to be made that he's worth $8-10 mill.

#2) De Aza was at the press conference yesterday. Why, I'm uncertain, but it could be that he knows Abreu too.

#3) Agree on Bourjos. I love him.

 

I also don't see the upside of Conger. He's in the same boat as Flowers, except that he put up his minor league numbers in a very offense friendly environment. If the Sox acquire him, it better for a PTBNL sort of situation, not one where he holds substantial value.

It's not so much I see great upside in Conger , it's that I see so much downside in our current catchers. It would be nice if they could actually um catch the ball and not look so pitiful hitting. 16 passed balls between Phegley and Flowers is too many . I think a catcher who can hit .250 and can switch hit allows for more versatility. He seemed to have just as much power as Flowers and K's 10% less. There's no way Phegs and Flowers are the Sox catching combo next year so might as well see who's available . In roughly the same amount of innings caught ( Conger had 19 more) Phegley had 8 passed balls , Conger 1. SUPPORT our PITCHERS. Stop giving up extra bases and catch the damn ball.