iamshack Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Depends. If they think he will be better, but it is 2016 when it might happen, that could change their opinion. True. Point is, they don't believe he will give them, in this window, what perhaps Quintana could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) True. Point is, they don't believe he will give them, in this window, what perhaps Quintana could. which is right about 100% true. It doesn't mean they don't believe in Sanchez. It could be a Kenny Williams type situation where they think today is more important than tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If you got Lawrie for Gordon + Danks, that'd be awesome. If you got Lawrie+, especially if it's Sanchez or Stroman, you've got a coup. And yeah, beating a dead horse, but with Danks off the books I can easily see them pushing for both McCann and Ellsbury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 03:52 PM) Ding Ding. People need to realize that the Blue Jays wouldn't trade Sanchez if they were convinced he was going to be Quintana or better. It would make no sense. The Blue Jays have a few years here where they have a pretty solid core locked up and think they can compete. They are willing to try and add pieces for that window using some of their prospects. The Blue Jays have to strike while the Yankees are down. If Sanchez were to turn into Roy Halladay in three years what does it matter when the Yankees have reloaded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 MLBTR quick write up: Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos is no stranger to the trade market. Early reports have already pegged Hank Conger and Chris Iannetta as potential trade targets for Toronto, and now Scott Merkin and Gregor Chisholm of MLB.com report that the Jays are targeting White Sox second baseman Gordon Beckham as well. Beckham, 27, hit .267/.322/.372 with a career-low five homers in a career-low 103 games this season. A broken hamate bone in his right hand cost him nearly two months of the 2013 campaign, which could have something to do with the decline in home runs. However, Beckham has never lived up to the hype that surrounded him after being selected with the eighth overall pick in the 2008 draft, slashing just .249/.314/.380 in 2,217 big league plate appearances. Beckham is eligible for arbitration for the second time this offseason, and MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz projects a raise from $2.9MM to $3.5MM. He is under team control through the 2015 season. Chisolm and Merkin go on to write that given the Jays' need to improve the rotation, it's possible that they could look to expand the deal to include a starting pitcher. The MLB.com duo notes that lefties Hector Santiago and John Danks are said to be available, also adding that the White Sox covet minor league right-handers Aaron Sanchez and Marcus Stroman. That pair of former first-round picks seems to me to be too steep an asking price for the players that the Blue Jays are targeting, but Merkin and Chisholm feel that Chicago GM Rick Hahn would need to be overwhelmed to part with Beckham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 03:50 PM) Sanchez was in A+ ball last year . He would not nor might never be Quintana's replacement. If he was ML ready there's no need to try to get pitching yet thats what the BJ's want despite having 2 top 50/100 pitching prospects. If they're seriously considering a big push for 2014 they don't seem to want to wait for those guys to develop. Sanchez isn't going to replace Quintana next season, but how about by 2016? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Beckham's WAR by season: 1.8, 0.4, 1.0, 0.3 and 0.8. He is extremely replaceable. I cannot imagine someone so into advanced metrics such as Hahn would covet Beckham so much. Clearly, just saying that to not lose leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) Beckham's WAR by season: 1.8, 0.4, 1.0, 0.3 and 0.8. He is extremely replaceable. I cannot imagine someone so into advanced metrics such as Hahn would covet Beckham so much. Clearly, just saying that to not lose leverage. Or the genius that is AA> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) Sanchez isn't going to replace Quintana next season, but how about by 2016? So you want to waste 2 years of Sale , risking 2 more years he could be injured to get a guy who might or never be a #2 starter in 2016 ?. Sorry but I want to keep our 1 and 2 together for those 2 years considering we have all offseason to see how other trades might pan out. I love our starting pitching for the next 5 years and we have room to still add plenty of salary . The most the Sox can do is give up 1 starter and I'd prefer it be Danks, Santiago , or Rienzo . I'll take the nucleus of Avi and Abreu maybe a trade for an OF and either McCann or Ellsbury rather than try for a free agent pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) I am perfectly content going into 2013 with Danks at #2 to #4 on the depth chart for the starting rotation. If he pitches like a 3 or 2, he should become very "moveable" again as a 29 y.o. with a decent pedigree,. I don't know that we wouldn't be better off waiting until he shows a return to form, if, in fact, that's what the braintrust expects from him. OTOH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 See what Toronto offers go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (almagest @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Even Lawrie's worst season (this year), is better than every Beckham season except 2009. Also, is younger, and has two fewer seasons in MLB. Yes. Lawrie and Beckham are very different. The "bad" Lawrie post-rookie year is better than the best of post-rookie Beckham and is much younger at a position we have nobody at. If the Jays agreed to flip them straight up, I'd get it done before AA came down from his high. If Santiago and Beckham can get Stroman and/or Sanchez thrown in, I'd give Hahn a lifetime contract. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) If you're sending over Danks, you're most likely picking up a lot of his contract, so now we lose 2 starting pitchers including a good young one and a Gordon Beckham and we're just getting another Gordon Beckham back? I don't understand that all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:40 PM) If he pitches like a 3 or 2, he should become very "moveable" again as a 29 y.o. with a decent pedigree,. I don't know that we wouldn't be better off waiting until he shows a return to form, if, in fact, that's what the braintrust expects from him. OTOH... Yeah, if Danks pitches like his pre-injury self, you don't even have to consider picking up money, in fact you start to be able to ask for a teams best prospects again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:38 PM) So you want to waste 2 years of Sale , risking 2 more years he could be injured to get a guy who might or never be a #2 starter in 2016 ?. Sorry but I want to keep our 1 and 2 together for those 2 years considering we have all offseason to see how other trades might pan out. I love our starting pitching for the next 5 years and we have room to still add plenty of salary . The most the Sox can do is give up 1 starter and I'd prefer it be Danks, Santiago , or Rienzo . I'll take the nucleus of Avi and Abreu maybe a trade for an OF and either McCann or Ellsbury rather than try for a free agent pitcher. I think it's a bad idea to target 2014 and 2015 as years the Sox can make the postseason. Too many holes to fill and the downside of no financial flexibility if things go bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Yes. Lawrie and Beckham are very different. The "bad" Lawrie post-rookie year is better than the best of post-rookie Beckham and is much younger at a position we have nobody at. If the Jays agreed to flip them straight up, I'd get it done before AA came down from his high. If Santiago and Beckham can get Stroman and/or Sanchez thrown in, I'd give Hahn a lifetime contract. Only move that is questionable in Hahn's short tenure as GM is the contract to Keppinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:09 PM) Only move that is questionable in Hahn's short tenure as GM is the contract to Keppinger Agreed, and that can change. Even if not, 4 million is hardly an albatross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:11 PM) Agreed, and that can change. Even if not, 4 million is hardly an albatross. Didn't Keppinger sign a 3 year deal worth 18 million? 6 million each year? But, if Hahn can pull off a deal speculating with the Jays. Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:21 PM) 3 years 12 millions. 4 per roughly Thank you for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 06:02 PM) Yeah, if Danks pitches like his pre-injury self, you don't even have to consider picking up money, in fact you start to be able to ask for a teams best prospects again. One thing that hasn't been stated in this thread is that if the white sox are willing to dump Danks rather than giving his value a chance to recover...it could be because they don't believe his value will recover based on what they may know of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) One thing that hasn't been stated in this thread is that if the white sox are willing to dump Danks rather than giving his value a chance to recover...it could be because they don't believe his value will recover based on what they may know of him. Exactly, that's why I caveat-ed with the expectations of the braintrust as to Danks' probable improvement. Of course, maybe they don't have anything better than the Magic 8 Ball I'm using - I believe there's not a lot of precedence for this specific injury if I read ptatc correctly. At any rate, the Jays must understand this, and Danks is likely a "shared risk" for both clubs if traded this offseason. The perceived advantage for the Sox (besides plugging 3B hole with Lawrie), if it happens, is that it frees up the money NOW to go after the current crop of FA's, and maybe they like their chances with a certain FA from this group, rather than what will be available at the end of 14. An interesting situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:27 PM) One thing that hasn't been stated in this thread is that if the white sox are willing to dump Danks rather than giving his value a chance to recover...it could be because they don't believe his value will recover based on what they may know of him. Not necessarily. Obviously if he fully recovers, he is probably worth the contract. But if he were a free agent right now no one, including the Sox,would give him what he is currently owed. They may think he will be fine, but they don't know he will be fine. No team is going to take him unless the Sox eat a lot of money. He will be a White Sox next season. Edited October 30, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Not necessarily. Obviously if he fully recovers, he is probably worth the contract. But if he were a free agent right now no one, including the Sox,would give him what he is currently owed. They may think he will be fine, but they don't know he will be fine. No team is going to take him unless the Sox eat a lot of money. He will be a White Sox next season. This is most likely the case. It makes sense for the Sox to wait. But if he does return to form early next season, I think he'll be out of here rather quickly. A nice wave of pitching talent from the system shouldn't be too far away. If we can get out of the last 2-2 1/2 years of Danks, coupled with Dunn's departure, we'll be cash-flush buyers again next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:21 PM) 3 years 12 millions. 4 per roughly I believe it was even 3.5/4/4.5 over the three years, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) Sale Quintana Danks Santiago Johnson Rienzo Axelrod That is how I see it right now, though guys like Snodgress and Beck are closing in. It is also assuming that we don't pull in a RHP project. Why not re-sign Floyd as he rehabs with a option on the cheap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 06:29 PM) Why not re-sign Floyd as he rehabs with a option on the cheap? Possible, but he wont' be back before mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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