2014 Cubs Catch-All Thread

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

And the White Sox still have two huge holes in their rotation, even under the assumption that Rodon starts out as a 3.

 

 

The ONLY player they have to use as trade bait with any value to the rest of MLB is Alexei Ramirez, who just so happens to be our best defender, when we have one of the five worst defenses in baseball.

 

Besides, the easy rebuttal to that is the Braves winning only once in 14 years with all that Cy Young pitching, or the A's and the Twins.

I'm not comparing the sox to cubs. I'm talking strictly about the cubs.

 

And regarding the braves, A's, and twins, they never had the offense to compliment the pitching. Like I said, you need both to win. Not that you need a 95 Indians offense or a 95 braves pitching staff but generally speaking you need to be very good on both sides of the ball to win the world series. Of course there are exceptions, but more often than not, the team that is balanced both offensively and defensively wins the World Series. Relying too much on either offense or defense is a recipe for failure in the playoffs because as soon as that one side of the ball struggles you need the other to pick up the slack to get through a 7 game series. When was the last time a team won the World Series while being in the bottom third in runs allowed in their league? To get that pitching they are either spending big money (which is a big question mark right now) or trading away their offensive prospects. What would it take to get a guy like Chris Sale in a trade? Russell and Baez maybe? Well there goes 40% of their big time offensive prospects just to get an ace. How about rodon and Quintana? Soler and bryant? It's not easy to build a strong staff without spending money on big time free agents (Lester, scherzer, etc). Until they get the pitching, they aren't winning the World Series. That's not jealousy or envy or anything of the sorts. It's just a fact.

Edited August 9, 2014 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[caulfield12]

I'm not comparing the sox to cubs. I'm talking strictly about the cubs.

 

And regarding the braves, A's, and twins, they never had the offense to compliment the pitching. Like I said, you need both to win. Not that you need a 95 Indians offense or a 95 braves pitching staff but generally speaking you need to be very good on both sides of the ball to win the world series. Of course there are exceptions, but more often than not, the team that is balanced both offensively and defensively wins the World Series. Relying too much on either offense or defense is a recipe for failure in the playoffs because as soon as that one side of the ball struggles you need the other to pick up the slack to get through a 7 game series. When was the last time a team won the World Series while being in the bottom third in runs allowed in their league? To get that pitching they are either spending big money (which is a big question mark right now) or trading away their offensive prospects. What would it take to get a guy like Chris Sale in a trade? Russell and Baez maybe? Well there goes 40% of their big time offensive prospects just to get an ace. How about rodon and Quintana? Soler and bryant? It's not easy to build a strong staff without spending money on big time free agents (Lester, scherzer, etc). Until they get the pitching, they aren't winning the World Series. That's not jealousy or envy or anything of the sorts. It's just a fact.

 

 

What players in the majors WOULDN'T a package of Castro or Russell (let's say Russell for argument's sake), Almora and/or McKinney, Vogelbach and Schwarber get you? Maybe Pierce Johnson or CJ Edwards if the other team is balking or wants a pitcher.

 

That's four former 1st round draft picks that are "expendable" and don't force you to trade Baez/Soler/Bryant.

 

 

Right now, they're getting plenty out of Coghlan, so it's not imperative that they add another outfielder when they have Alcantara and either Baez or Bryant who could possibly be shifted to LF/RF, not to mention Soler.

 

That still leaves you:

 

Coghlan LF/RF

Alcantara CF

Soler LF/RF

Sweeney

 

3B Bryant

SS Castro or Russell

2B Baez

1B Rizzo

 

C ????

 

 

As far as pitching goes, I think unless they can get Lester, they're going to pass on Scherzer and Shields. Shields SHOULD get no more than a 4 year contract, and the Cubs still might not be able to legitimately compete for the playoffs until 2017 and 2018. 2016 is kind of the same situation for the Cubs as 2015 for the White Sox.

 

That said, let's say they signed Shields for $90 million over 4 years.

 

That leaves:

 

#1 Ace (acquired via trade)

#2 Shields

#3 Arrieta

#4 CJ Edwards

#5 Edwin Jackson

#6 Jacob Turner

#7 Pierce Johnson

#8-10 Wada/Kendricks/Beeler

 

That said, if they don't want to go that route until the 2016 or 2017 season, they can always bring back Hammel as a bridge to the big time free agent/trade acquisition. And Turner, Edwards and Johnson still have time to emerge as well.

 

Take all those players I highlighted in bold, and you can get just about any pitcher out there.

 

Edited August 9, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I'm not comparing the sox to cubs. I'm talking strictly about the cubs.

 

And regarding the braves, A's, and twins, they never had the offense to compliment the pitching. Like I said, you need both to win. Not that you need a 95 Indians offense or a 95 braves pitching staff but generally speaking you need to be very good on both sides of the ball to win the world series. Of course there are exceptions, but more often than not, the team that is balanced both offensively and defensively wins the World Series. Relying too much on either offense or defense is a recipe for failure in the playoffs because as soon as that one side of the ball struggles you need the other to pick up the slack to get through a 7 game series. When was the last time a team won the World Series while being in the bottom third in runs allowed in their league? To get that pitching they are either spending big money (which is a big question mark right now) or trading away their offensive prospects. What would it take to get a guy like Chris Sale in a trade? Russell and Baez maybe? Well there goes 40% of their big time offensive prospects just to get an ace. How about rodon and Quintana? Soler and bryant? It's not easy to build a strong staff without spending money on big time free agents (Lester, scherzer, etc). Until they get the pitching, they aren't winning the World Series. That's not jealousy or envy or anything of the sorts. It's just a fact.

Just to note, from the White Sox's side I wouldn't do either of those.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just to note, from the White Sox's side I wouldn't do either of those.

I know. I was being cub friendly to make a point.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

What players in the majors WOULDN'T a package of Castro or Russell (let's say Russell for argument's sake), Almora and/or McKinney, Vogelbach and Schwarber get you? Maybe Pierce Johnson or CJ Edwards if the other team is balking or wants a pitcher.

 

That's four former 1st round draft picks that are "expendable" and don't force you to trade Baez/Soler/Bryant.

 

 

Right now, they're getting plenty out of Coghlan, so it's not imperative that they add another outfielder when they have Alcantara and either Baez or Bryant who could possibly be shifted to LF/RF, not to mention Soler.

 

That still leaves you:

 

Coghlan LF/RF

Alcantara CF

Soler LF/RF

Sweeney

 

3B Bryant

SS Castro or Russell

2B Baez

1B Rizzo

 

C ????

You are assuming all those prospects turn out. The royals were thinking the same thing a few years back. I don't think hosmer, starling, moustakas, etc. are helping the royals much this year.

[caulfield12]

You are assuming all those prospects turn out. The royals were thinking the same thing a few years back. I don't think hosmer, starling, moustakas, etc. are helping the royals much this year.

 

Or Cameron Maybin and Miller with the Marlins.

 

That was enough to get the AL MVP the last two seasons.

 

Prospects are worth even more than they were back then...so, if they so choose to do so, they can trade those guys while they're still in the minors, the same thing Kenny Williams did nearly every season with his prospects to fortify the major league roster.

 

They don't have to be successful at the major league level to be worth a lot to another organization.

 

If the Cubs were closer, they easily could have put together the package for David Price, for example.

[caulfield12]

10 strikeouts in 23 AB's for Baez, 43.4%

 

OTOH, a .957 OPS with 5 RBI's with 4 of his 5 hits for XB, which is basically what Leury Garcia has given us for an entire season.

 

 

Alcantara with a 705 OPS but stellar defense, especially considering he mostly played IF up until recently.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 strikeouts in 23 AB's for Baez, 43.4%

 

OTOH, a .957 OPS with 5 RBI's with 4 of his 5 hits for XB, which is basically what Leury Garcia has given us for an entire season.

 

 

Alcantara with a 705 OPS but stellar defense, especially considering he mostly played IF up until recently.

Baez has 6 hits out of the 13 balls he's put in play. Pretty sure that's unsustainable. No walks in 23 at bats. All 3 homers in coors against the worst pitching staff in baseball. I wouldn't get too excited about that .957 OPS because it's only headed down from here. And Alcantara is the 2013 version of jordan danks, sweet. Let's see how these guys' numbers translate at the mlb level over 200+ at bats before getting too excited. Possibly this is just the first chapter in the development of the best offense in baseball but I'm skeptical. Oh yea and their pitching still sucks. Thought I'd go ahead and reiterate that small piece of information.

[caulfield12]

Baez has 6 hits out of the 13 balls he's put in play. Pretty sure that's unsustainable. No walks in 23 at bats. All 3 homers in coors against the worst pitching staff in baseball. I wouldn't get too excited about that .957 OPS because it's only headed down from here. And Alcantara is the 2013 version of jordan danks, sweet. Let's see how these guys' numbers translate at the mlb level over 200+ at bats before getting too excited. Possibly this is just the first chapter in the development of the best offense in baseball but I'm skeptical. Oh yea and their pitching still sucks. Thought I'd go ahead and reiterate that small piece of information.

 

 

Well, nobody ever said Jackson was good without Cooper.

 

As far as Alcantara, a 700ish OPS out of a rookie is acceptable if he can play as well as he has been defensively in CF (and stay healthy, unlike Eaton). Those numbers are way down from where he was a week or two ago, so these are his first offensive struggles...up to him to respond. I don't remember anyone taking Danks seriously as a Top 80-100 prospect in all of baseball for five years now. Let's wait before we start comparing him to Danks, Marcus Semien, Junior Lake and Mike Olt, etc.

 

I guess we could have said the same thing about Abreu and Avisail in Coors Field. Up to Baez to perform against every pitching staff, obviously.

 

 

[Jerksticks]

Soler looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. His stats in the minors tell me he just waits for his pitch and crushes it.

[Balta1701]

Soler looks like he's going to be the best of the bunch. His stats in the minors tell me he just waits for his pitch and crushes it.

If I had to pick one, I'm going with Bryant. In person he just puts on a show.

[SoxAce]

If I had to pick one, I'm going with Bryant. In person he just puts on a show.

Agreed and I'm a big Soler fan. Both guys are by far my favorite prospects in their system and both will unfortunately be studs for the Cubs for years to come. Bryant is just a superstar type talent.

[LittleHurt05]

If I had to pick one, I'm going with Bryant. In person he just puts on a show.

 

Yeah, I'm no prospect guy, but it seems like he's the real deal for sure. Ryan Braun a good comparison? (Stats-wise. not PED-wise)

 

Houston really f***ed up the last two drafts. They would look a whole lot better with Bryant & Rodon as opposed to Appel & nobody.

[fathom]

Bryant has MVP potential, while Soler might be the most underrated prospect in the minors. They might be the two best hitting prospects this season, with Gallo the only one close to them. The best compliment I could give the future Cubs offense is that they have a chance to put up steroid era-like numbers.

Edited August 10, 2014 by fathom

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I'm no prospect guy, but it seems like he's the real deal for sure. Ryan Braun a good comparison? (Stats-wise. not PED-wise)

 

Houston really f***ed up the last two drafts. They would look a whole lot better with Bryant & Rodon as opposed to Appel & nobody.

 

 

Don't forget Correa got injured...can't remember who else they could have taken first, and it's not like he has been disappointing.

 

Buxton (2nd to the Twins), Zunino, Gausman and Zimmer all went in the top 10, along with Almora at 8.

 

 

 

So essentially, you're looking at Buxton/Bryant/Rodon vs. Correa/Appel/nobody until 2015.

Edited August 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

14:$2M, 15:$2M, 16:$3M, 17:$3M, 18:$4M, 19:$4M, 20:$4M

 

Jorge Soler's contract. Likely to replace Alexei Ramirez's first deal, Chris Sale/Jose Quintana or Steve Trout's first 3 years as the friendliest contract in MLB.

 

 

The last three years of Mike Trout's new deal, $100 million, or $33.33 million per season.

[Rowand44]

14:$2M, 15:$2M, 16:$3M, 17:$3M, 18:$4M, 19:$4M, 20:$4M

 

Jorge Soler's contract. Likely to replace Alexei Ramirez's first deal, Chris Sale/Jose Quintana or Steve Trout's first 3 years as the friendliest contract in MLB.

 

 

The last three years of Mike Trout's new deal, $100 million, or $33.33 million per season.

Steve Trout is a baller.

[ptatc]

Steve Trout is a baller.

His nickname wasn't "nose candy" for nothing.

[caulfield12]

Steve Trout is a baller.

 

 

Ooops, Mike.

 

I was just listening to Steve Stone on the Score, lol. Or thinking of the former, unrelated Sox pitcher, not sure which.

 

 

 

Stone, fwiw, said he was very skeptical that Jordan Danks could ever be a major league regular unless he could 1) ever lay off the pitch high or above the strike or 2) learn to drive that pitch.

 

Of course, most left-handed hitters are much better lower in the strike zone, although there are a few notable exceptions.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

14:$2M, 15:$2M, 16:$3M, 17:$3M, 18:$4M, 19:$4M, 20:$4M

 

Jorge Soler's contract. Likely to replace Alexei Ramirez's first deal, Chris Sale/Jose Quintana or Steve Trout's first 3 years as the friendliest contract in MLB.

 

 

The last three years of Mike Trout's new deal, $100 million, or $33.33 million per season.

Except for this...

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/6/11/3078976/...ontract-opt-out

[caulfield12]

Except for this...

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/6/11/3078976/...ontract-opt-out

 

 

Of course, Ken Rosenthal had no clue about any of the big trades that happened in July, so not sure if I would trust that information or not.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I'm no prospect guy, but it seems like he's the real deal for sure. Ryan Braun a good comparison? (Stats-wise. not PED-wise)

 

Houston really f***ed up the last two drafts. They would look a whole lot better with Bryant & Rodon as opposed to Appel & nobody.

The one difference you can say is that Bryant strikes out more than Braun ever did. More power but more K's at the plate.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Of course, Ken Rosenthal had no clue about any of the big trades that happened in July, so not sure if I would trust that information or not.

I would. Soler has the same agent as Jose Abreu and Abreu has the same clause in his contract

[Quin]

Unless Soler is an MVP candidate, Sale is a better contract.

[caulfield12]

The 21-year-old Cuban is not a cost-controlled prospect — there’s an opt-out clause that would make him eligible for arbitration after three years service time, but both sides would be thrilled if it came to that. In any case, there’s incentive for the Cubs to develop him quickly in order to make sure the bulk of those nine years are spent at the highest level. Chicago was smart to make such a long-term investment in Soler — it gives them a little developmental cushion.

 

Okay, just don't know why Rozner and Abbatacola wouldn't know this or mention it.