11-22-1963

[Texsox]

The 50th Anniversary is in a couple weeks and network coverage will be wall to wall. I am taking a cultural studies course this semester focusing in the assassination. My seminar paper concerns the supposed connection between a mourning period after the assassination and February 9th, 1964, the arrival of the Beatles. It is mentioned fairly often that the Beatles popularity was in part to the nation looking for an emotional release after a two month mourning period. The Emmys this year even based a segment on that theory.

 

It's crap btw. And I can prove it.

 

Anyway, for my generation, Kennedy's assassination is much like 9/11 to younger people. I grew up in the post JFK world, like we're now in the post 9/11 world. Things change and in a hurry.

 

[iamshack]

The 50th Anniversary is in a couple weeks and network coverage will be wall to wall. I am taking a cultural studies course this semester focusing in the assassination. My seminar paper concerns the supposed connection between a mourning period after the assassination and February 9th, 1964, the arrival of the Beatles. It is mentioned fairly often that the Beatles popularity was in part to the nation looking for an emotional release after a two month mourning period. The Emmys this year even based a segment on that theory.

 

It's crap btw. And I can prove it.

 

Anyway, for my generation, Kennedy's assassination is much like 9/11 to younger people. I grew up in the post JFK world, like we're now in the post 9/11 world. Things change and in a hurry.

Would love to see you elaborate in the theory...

[Texsox]

Would love to see you elaborate in the theory...

 

The theory that their success was tied to the mourning period, you my thesis that it was premier marketing more so than an emotional release?

[iamshack]

The theory that their success was tied to the mourning period, you my thesis that it was premier marketing more so than an emotional release?

Your theory on the Beatles theory.

[Brian]

John Lennon on the grassy knoll!

[Texsox]

Your theory on the Beatles theory.

 

I'll post a lot more as I pull this paper together, but one tidbit. The promotional budget for the first Beatles trip was $50,000. The record at the time, for one of Elvis' records was $5,000. Brian Epstein pulled off some great marketing. He even dropped their usual price for an appearance but only if Sullivan would give them top billing for both shows. That assured them of a lot of advertising. Radio stations were offering $1 and a t-shirt for any fan that showed up to greet The Beatles at J.F.Kennedy Airport on Feb 7.

 

There was also no real change in musical taste before and for those two months. Bobby Vinton had the #1 hit even before Kennedy was shot. If anything we were in mourning for a year before Kennedy was shot.

[southsider2k5]

I saw an interesting tidbit this morning on the JFK conspiracies. Apparently as a part of an ex-KGB defectors document cache from the 80's, one of the letters suggesting contact between Oswald and the CIA was a KGB forgery planted to throw suspicion on to th CIA.

[cabiness42]

Movie adaptation of Bill O'Reilly's book 'Killing Kennedy' airs Sunday on NatGeo.

[southsider2k5]

Movie adaptation of Bill O'Reilly's book 'Killing Kennedy' airs Sunday on NatGeo.

 

I've got it set on the DVR already.

[southsider2k5]

The other factoid I picked up off of the same show was this... one person has connections to three different Presidential assassinations, who was it?

[southsider2k5]

The other factoid I picked up off of the same show was this... one person has connections to three different Presidential assassinations, who was it?

 

Answer

 

http://voices.yahoo.com/robert-todd-lincoln-witness-three-presidential-755069.html

 

Robert Todd Lincoln, the son of President Abraham Lincoln, has the distinction of being the only person to be present or at least close to three Presidential assassinations. He was a witness to not only the death of President Lincoln, but he was present at the assassinations of President Garfield and President McKinley. According to legend, he was so shaken by the assassination of President McKinley that he refused to attend any more public functions for fear that he would witness yet another Presidential assassination!

 

Of course the most famous assassination to which Robert Todd Lincoln was connected was to that of his father, President Abraham Lincoln. On that fateful day, Robert had just arrived in Washington after serving as an aid to General Grant. His parents invited him to go to the theatre with them, but he declined. He was tired and wanted to get a good night's sleep. He did not get a good night's sleep, however, because he was awakened with news that his father had been shot. He rushed to Lincoln's deathbed and stayed there until Lincoln died the next day. Robert blamed himself for what had happened. Understandably, he wondered how things might have been different if he had been there. Could he have stopped Booth? That was a question that haunted him for the rest of his life.

 

In 1881, Robert was the Secretary of War for President James Garfield. At the President's request, Robert planned to travel with the President to Elberon, New Jersey. Unfortunately, he was late at arriving at the train station in Washington. Just as Robert arrived at the station, President Garfield was shot by Charles Guiteau. While we do not know for sure where Robert was during the assassination, it is likely that he was an eyewitness to it. At the very least, he was present and heard the fatal gunshot.

 

In 1901, Robert was the President of the Pullman Car Association when President McKinley invited him to attend the Pan American Exposition in Buffalo, New York. Robert arrived late, and was on his way to greet the President when Leon Czolgosz shot and mortally wounded McKinley. Robert was most likely not yet near the President when the assassination occurred, but he was at the Exposition and probably heard the gunshots.

 

There are some who say that President Garfield and President McKinley had started having the same sort of prophetic dreams about their deaths that had haunted President Lincoln before his assassination and that both men had requested the presence of Robert Todd because they wanted to discuss his father's dreams. Whatever the case, Robert Todd was invited to the scenes of three Presidential Assassinations and was one of the closest witnesses to all three. It is little wonder that he began to feel that it was more than just coincidence and that he needed to stay away to keep his bad luck away from the President

!

 

[Harry Chappas]

Answer

 

http://voices.yahoo.com/robert-todd-lincoln-witness-three-presidential-755069.html

 

So he blew off Lincoln's invite and was late to the other two assassinations.

 

Sounds like he should be questioned as an involved party to three counts of murder if you ask me.

[StrangeSox]

So he blew off Lincoln's invite and was late to the other two assassinations.

 

Sounds like he should be questioned as an involved party to three counts of murder if you ask me.

 

[Iwritecode]

An interesting coincidence that I just read about yesterday (from Wiki):

 

Robert Lincoln was once saved from possible serious injury or death by Edwin Booth, brother of John Wilkes Booth. The incident took place on a train platform in Jersey City, New Jersey. The exact date of the incident is uncertain, but it is believed to have taken place in late 1863 or early 1864, before John Wilkes Booth's assassination of President Lincoln (April 15, 1865).

 

Robert Lincoln recalled the incident in a 1909 letter to Richard Watson Gilder, editor of The Century Magazine:

 

The incident occurred while a group of passengers were late at night purchasing their sleeping car places from the conductor who stood on the station platform at the entrance of the car. The platform was about the height of the car floor, and there was of course a narrow space between the platform and the car body. There was some crowding, and I happened to be pressed by it against the car body while waiting my turn. In this situation the train began to move, and by the motion I was twisted off my feet, and had dropped somewhat, with feet downward, into the open space, and was personally helpless, when my coat collar was vigorously seized and I was quickly pulled up and out to a secure footing on the platform. Upon turning to thank my rescuer I saw it was Edwin Booth, whose face was of course well known to me, and I expressed my gratitude to him, and in doing so, called him by name.

 

Months later, while serving as an officer on the staff of General Ulysses S. Grant, Robert Lincoln recalled the incident to his fellow officer, Colonel Adam Badeau, who happened to be a friend of Edwin Booth. Badeau sent a letter to Booth, complimenting the actor for his heroism. Before receiving the letter, Booth had been unaware that the man whose life he had saved on the train platform had been the President's son. The incident was said to have been of some comfort to Edwin Booth following his brother's assassination of the President. President Ulysses Grant also sent Booth a letter of gratitude for his action.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Heard a great stat on the Kennedy conspiracies... Over 50 years, there have been 42 different groups, 82 different assassins, and 214 different people accused of being involved in the Kennedy assassination. That comes from Vincent Bugliosi author of Reclaiming History.

[Texsox]

The other night we spoke with a band member of the Cavern Club in Fort Worth where the Secrete Service guys drank until 6 am. I wonder how fit they were for service later? An interesting tidbit, a couple of the guys that worked there wandered over to the hotel where Kennedy was speaking. When Kennedy left he shook their hands. Why is that interesting? They both had .45s in their back pockets. The world was a much different place then.

[iamshack]

Movie adaptation of Bill O'Reilly's book 'Killing Kennedy' airs Sunday on NatGeo.

Ok, so I didn't read the book, but I watched the movie adaptation.

 

What the hell was the point? This is the same basic story that we have all been told. Did I miss something!

[Texsox]

I read a similar story but it said they drank until 4 AM. The story I read said they had one gentleman, I can't remember his name, who was not hungover and they assigned him to sniper duty that day.

 

According to the Warren Commission report, the club does not serve alcohol and no one was drinking that night

[southsider2k5]

Ok, so I didn't read the book, but I watched the movie adaptation.

 

What the hell was the point? This is the same basic story that we have all been told. Did I miss something!

 

The movie adaptation sucked. The book at least gave some interesting factoids and perspectives.

[Texsox]

I am finding it interesting that the most noteworthy conclusion any researcher could possibly come up with at this point is to agree with the Warren Commission report. That is really rare.

[southsider2k5]

I am finding it interesting that the most noteworthy conclusion any researcher could possibly come up with at this point is to agree with the Warren Commission report. That is really rare.

 

The more I have read and seen, the more I agree with the Warren report. A lot of the basic assumptions that have gone into conspiracies have been blown up over the years. (such as the "magic bullet" and not being able to get off three rounds in the time described) I think the tide really went for conspiracy with Oliver Stones JFK, and since then, there has been a ton of interesting research done that really has pushed my belief back to the Oswald did it alone theory.

[clyons]

The more I have read and seen, the more I agree with the Warren report. A lot of the basic assumptions that have gone into conspiracies have been blown up over the years. (such as the "magic bullet" and not being able to get off three rounds in the time described) I think the tide really went for conspiracy with Oliver Stones JFK, and since then, there has been a ton of interesting research done that really has pushed my belief back to the Oswald did it alone theory.

 

Same with me, and I've come completely full circle from what I used to think. For me, it boils down to the fact that the conspiracy theories are all predicated on coincidences (although there are many; lots of which are legitimately eyebrow-raising) and point in different and conflicting directions (Mafia, CIA, Cubans, KGB, etc.). However, an abundance of the actual EVIDENCE points to Oswald acting alone. The scholarly books by Gerald Posner and Vince Buglosi go over all of this evidence in detail (Buglosi's painstakingly so).

 

I enjoy his movies, but Stone in particular is a bozo.

[southsider2k5]

Same with me, and I've come completely full circle from what I used to think. For me, it boils down to the fact that the conspiracy theories are all predicated on coincidences (although there are many; lots of which are legitimately eyebrow-raising) and point in different and conflicting directions (Mafia, CIA, Cubans, KGB, etc.). However, an abundance of the actual EVIDENCE points to Oswald acting alone. The scholarly books by Gerald Posner and Vince Buglosi go over all of this evidence in detail (Buglosi's painstakingly so).

 

I enjoy his movies, but Stone in particular is a bozo.

 

I am going to have to get ahold of Bugliosi's book. I am very interested now.

[clyons]

I am going to have to get ahold of Bugliosi's book. I am very interested now.

 

It's almost as long as the Warren Commission report.

[Texsox]

I tend to believe Oswald acted alone as well.

 

Taking a class based around the popular culture of the time has been very interesting. I was a little uneasy about the course, hoping it wouldn't be endless arguing over conspiracy theories. Instead, in the first minutes of the fist class the professor said "I don't care who shot Kennedy, if Oswald acted alone, whatever. If we go down that rabbit hole we may never come back out."

 

I remember as a kid reading and rereading a book about the Secret Service and thinking how professional and cool they were. Between all the books I've read about the assassination and the controversy from a couple years ago, the Secret Service is as messed up as any.