GGajewski18 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How does a player qualify to be a non tender canidate? I see Tyler Flowers is a non tender canidate for the Sox and there are some pitchers I would be interested in on cheap one year deals with option years. Johnny Venters, and Daniel Hudson I could see the Sox go after I they do get non tendered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) How does a player qualify to be a non tender canidate? I see Tyler Flowers is a non tender canidate for the Sox and there are some pitchers I would be interested in on cheap one year deals with option years. Johnny Venters, and Daniel Hudson I could see the Sox go after I they do get non tendered. Basically, by sucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) How does a player qualify to be a non tender canidate? I see Tyler Flowers is a non tender canidate for the Sox and there are some pitchers I would be interested in on cheap one year deals with option years. Johnny Venters, and Daniel Hudson I could see the Sox go after I they do get non tendered. They are a player the team will not want to pay who are still under team control but not contractually obligated to their remaining salary. Dan Hudson won't be non-tendered. He's far too valuable a commodity for the DBacks. Flowers could be, but there's not a lot of harm in bringing him back considering he's going to make close to the league minimum and is one of 2 "major league" catchers the White Sox have. The most likely candidate is probably Beckham, but in this day and age, there's not a lot of use in non-tendering players because someone will almost always give something for a player like that. Perhaps a marginal player in arbitration years who no long has an option that had a serious injury would be non-tendered to save money (Gavin Floyd if he qualified would fit this criteria). Other candidates are guys that really have no future in the organization that the team will no longer want to pay. This pertains very well to Brent Morel, but there are others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) They are a player the team will not want to pay who are still under team control but not contractually obligated to their remaining salary. Dan Hudson won't be non-tendered. He's far too valuable a commodity for the DBacks. Flowers could be, but there's not a lot of harm in bringing him back considering he's going to make close to the league minimum and is one of 2 "major league" catchers the White Sox have. The most likely candidate is probably Beckham, but in this day and age, there's not a lot of use in non-tendering players because someone will almost always give something for a player like that. Perhaps a marginal player in arbitration years who no long has an option that had a serious injury would be non-tendered to save money (Gavin Floyd if he qualified would fit this criteria). Other candidates are guys that really have no future in the organization that the team will no longer want to pay. This pertains very well to Brent Morel, but there are others as well. Right, so to expand, they are usually guys who have yet to reach free agency, and therefore, do not have guaranteed contracts but are making enough money through arbitration to warrant not tendering them a contract because they suck. As Wite implies, the money most teams have at their disposal right now has outstripped the salary considerations most of these guys are entitled to, so it isn't very common if the player is worth anything at all. Edited November 7, 2013 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ok thanks guy for clearing that up for me. Helps a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 How does a player qualify to be a non tender canidate? I see Tyler Flowers is a non tender canidate for the Sox and there are some pitchers I would be interested in on cheap one year deals with option years. Johnny Venters, and Daniel Hudson I could see the Sox go after I they do get non tendered. Players who have enough service time to qualify for arbitration (a little over 2 1/2 years) but not enough to qualify for free agency (6 years) have a deadline (December 2) by which a team must decide whether or not to tender (offer) them a contract for the following season. If they tender them, then they are bound to pay them either an amount the two sides can agree upon, or an amount determined by an arbitrator. Sox players in this category are Beckham, Viciedo, DeAza, and Flowers. Viciedo and DeAza are almost certain to be kept. The only way Beckham and Flowers aren't kept is if replacements for them are acquired before the December 2 deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) Viciedo and DeAza are almost certain to be kept. The only way Beckham and Flowers aren't kept is if replacements for them are acquired before the December 2 deadline. Yeah, that deadline is interesting. I'd be surprised in Hahn's first move isn't to try to get a catcher. Because Flowers is an obvious non-tender on every team except ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Yeah, that deadline is interesting. I'd be surprised in Hahn's first move isn't to try to get a catcher. Because Flowers is an obvious non-tender on every team except ours. Flowers is also a Super 2 with a very poor track record, so he isn't going to get much and there's little risk in tendering him if there's no replacement in place by 12/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Flowers might get $1 million, and even if you offer him arb and he wins, can't you release him during spring training and pay him 20% or some sort? If Jarrod Saltilamaccia is worth 4 years and $36-40 million, Tyler Flowers is probably worth $1 million for 1 year or at least $200k to see where he's at this spring. I'm no fan, but he has shown he's a decent back up who can hit homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) Flowers might get $1 million, and even if you offer him arb and he wins, can't you release him during spring training and pay him 20% or some sort? If Jarrod Saltilamaccia is worth 4 years and $36-40 million, Tyler Flowers is probably worth $1 million for 1 year or at least $200k to see where he's at this spring. I'm no fan, but he has shown he's a decent back up who can hit homers. I agree with this 100%. I also don't think there's any real noticeable difference between Phegley and Flowers and, while Flowers is no longer eligible to be optioned, Phegley still is. Being smart and maximizing the efficiency of your resources is also a part of the game, regardless of whether or not Phegley has anything more to prove at the AAA level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I mean I don't think they're going to sweat it if they have to keep him without figuring the starter out, but a million bucks is a million bucks. I'd be surprised if Hahn wouldn't want to get it sorted out first if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) I mean I don't think they're going to sweat it if they have to keep him without figuring the starter out, but a million bucks is a million bucks. I'd be surprised if Hahn wouldn't want to get it sorted out first if at all possible. Frankly, Flowers is a JAG, but he's easier to pay $1 mill to Flowers to be a JAG than it is $4 million to John Buck to do the same thing. The only thing Buck could conceivably bring to the table is veteran leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) They are a player the team will not want to pay who are still under team control but not contractually obligated to their remaining salary. Dan Hudson won't be non-tendered. He's far too valuable a commodity for the DBacks. Flowers could be, but there's not a lot of harm in bringing him back considering he's going to make close to the league minimum and is one of 2 "major league" catchers the White Sox have. The most likely candidate is probably Beckham, but in this day and age, there's not a lot of use in non-tendering players because someone will almost always give something for a player like that. Perhaps a marginal player in arbitration years who no long has an option that had a serious injury would be non-tendered to save money (Gavin Floyd if he qualified would fit this criteria). Other candidates are guys that really have no future in the organization that the team will no longer want to pay. This pertains very well to Brent Morel, but there are others as well. Hudson is in the exact same, albeit worse position that Gavin Floyd. He just had a second TJ surgery, later than Floyd did, and has been a decent pitcher for only a season and a half. I don't think that he will be non-tendered, but it would be no surprise because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to be gained there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) Hudson is in the exact same, albeit worse position that Gavin Floyd. He just had a second TJ surgery, later than Floyd did, and has been a decent pitcher for only a season and a half. I don't think that he will be non-tendered, but it would be no surprise because there doesn't seem to be a whole lot to be gained there. Hudson is still going to be extremely cheap though. Having pitched just 45.1 innings in the last 2 seasons, he is going to cost next to nothing in arbitration and, while it's true that he's a considerable injury risk, he's also still under team control for the next 3 years. Best case scenario, he's able to come back and help your team come August or so of next year. Otherwise, you evaluate where he's after after next season, and make a decision on him from there. If it were Lucas Harrell who had just torn his UCL for the second time in 2 years, you'd non-tender him in a second. EDIT: The moral of this story is that "talent will always get second chances." The reason a psycho like Milton Bradley was able to stick around as long as he did was because the dude had a considerable amount of talent and you could put up with the headache if he acted semi-normal and gave your team a chance to win. The second he stopped producing and his talent was no longer evident, he was out of the game in a heartbeat. Edited November 7, 2013 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Flowers might get $1 million, and even if you offer him arb and he wins, can't you release him during spring training and pay him 20% or some sort? Don't think so. Arbitration is binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) Right, so to expand, they are usually guys who have yet to reach free agency, and therefore, do not have guaranteed contracts but are making enough money through arbitration to warrant not tendering them a contract because they suck. As Wite implies, the money most teams have at their disposal right now has outstripped the salary considerations most of these guys are entitled to, so it isn't very common if the player is worth anything at all. There was also a lot of talk about Carlos Quentin falling into this category before they dealt him...mostly because his projected salary in the final two years of arbitration was becoming quite high (and it's relative), but at least 50% of it was concern about his long-term viability as a player due to health concerns, too many HBP's, too intense, etc. Crede and Jenks fell into these same categories...not sucking so much as "how much money are they really worth to the team?"....risk/reward or cost/benefit analysis. How likely is he to stay healthy/productive? Edited November 7, 2013 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.