Who willl win the Boras/Jay-Z agent war?

[Soxbadger]

No one likes Scott Boras, so what. Has it ever stopped him? Look at the contracts the guy has gotten for his guys, despite being reviled. The guy has gotten 3 $200 million contracts. He has gotten 10 $100 million deals. He was the first agent to break the $50 million, $100 million, and $200 million levels. If ARod could have kept his s*** together, he would have been teh first over $300 million already as well. He also own the records for the biggest first professional contracts signed, both from a HS and college player.

 

Its not really hard to get teams to pay the most talented players the most money.

 

The hard part is convincing the talent to come to your organization over another organization.

 

There are plenty of far more talented negotiators/contract drafters than Boras. Hes not even that accomplished if you add in all of the lawyers in the world who do this for massive corporations where $200mil contracts are not close to $1bil deals.

 

I actually believe that Boras could have many times gotten more money for clients. I think that his tactics of ostracized certain teams into not even making offers has hurt clients.

[southsider2k5]

Its not really hard to get teams to pay the most talented players the most money.

 

The hard part is convincing the talent to come to your organization over another organization.

 

There are plenty of far more talented negotiators/contract drafters than Boras. Hes not even that accomplished if you add in all of the lawyers in the world who do this for massive corporations where $200mil contracts are not close to $1bil deals.

 

I actually believe that Boras could have many times gotten more money for clients. I think that his tactics of ostracized certain teams into not even making offers has hurt clients.

 

You mean like Boras getting the best players in baseball to come into his fold versus another agent?

[iamshack]

No one likes Scott Boras, so what. Has it ever stopped him? Look at the contracts the guy has gotten for his guys, despite being reviled. The guy has gotten 3 $200 million contracts. He has gotten 10 $100 million deals. He was the first agent to break the $50 million, $100 million, and $200 million levels. If ARod could have kept his s*** together, he would have been teh first over $300 million already as well. He also own the records for the biggest first professional contracts signed, both from a HS and college player.

I'm talking about endorsements, not player contracts.

 

The corporate world looks to people like Jay-Z as "the pulse" of the African American community, and the youth demographic. They realize there is a lot of money to be made there. That's where his influence will bring money for the clients of his agency.

[iamshack]

Why? Politicians love to exploit minorities for political points.

So Barack Obama was exploiting Jay-Z for political points?

[Soxbadger]

You mean like Boras getting the best players in baseball to come into his fold versus another agent?

 

Right, Boras used to be the most famous agent on the block. Now hes not.

 

Thats exactly what we are talking about. Finally you recognize the problem for Boras. In Jay Zs first move as an agent, he took a Boras client who stood to make Boras's company a lot of money.

 

It should be extremely troubling for Boras that Jay was able to get such a big name on his first go around. Especially as it wasnt a Ricky Williams where he had no previous agent. Cano had Boras, already had a lot of money and decided that Jay would be better.

 

Jay Z can sell a dream that Boras cant.

[Texsox]

Speaking of business success.

 

Boras created the second most valuable sports agency in the world, according to Forbes Magazine.

 

I couldn't find a list that Roc-A-Feller was on.

 

Which you consider a bigger accomplishment is of course, a personal opinion.

 

Clearly, if you are going to pick an agent by facebook likes, the choice is clear.

If you want the guy that Obama goes to for help with the black community, there is one choice.

If you need a cultural icon, you now have that choice.

If you want an agent more popular than you, grab him.

If you want what I believe will be solid representation, and one of the best role models for leveraging individual talent into a brand, Jay-Z will be a good choice.

 

If you want a guy that has been involved in the biggest contracts ever. (and that isn't for everyone!) I know who I would sign with.

[southsider2k5]

I'm talking about endorsements, not player contracts.

 

The corporate world looks to people like Jay-Z as "the pulse" of the African American community, and the youth demographic. They realize there is a lot of money to be made there. That's where his influence will bring money for the clients of his agency.

 

But no where near as much money as the actual contract. Pretty much only the very top guy in a sport can out perform his contract in endorsements. You are talking about Tiger and Michael type players.

[Texsox]

I'm talking about endorsements, not player contracts.

 

The corporate world looks to people like Jay-Z as "the pulse" of the African American community, and the youth demographic. They realize there is a lot of money to be made there. That's where his influence will bring money for the clients of his agency.

 

So help me with this. So if Jay-Z is paid to represent someone, a company will overlook their own marketing, their own research, their own advertising agency, and go with what Jay-Z says? That is going to save corporations hundreds of millions of dollars in market research and put a lot of firms out of business.

 

The dude is amazing and I had no clue. He walks into All-Sport and tells them that putting Alexei Ramirez in their adds will deliver the youth market and BAM! it happens. Come one. Really?

 

Will he also help clients that aren't part of '"the pulse' of the African American community, and the youth demographic"? Or will his client base be limited?

 

I think he helps once the company decides they are going to go with a celebrity endorsement.

[iamshack]

Speaking of business success.

 

Boras created the second most valuable sports agency in the world, according to Forbes Magazine.

 

I couldn't find a list that Roc-A-Feller was on.

 

Which you consider a bigger accomplishment is of course, a personal opinion.

 

Clearly, if you are going to pick an agent by facebook likes, the choice is clear.

If you want the guy that Obama goes to for help with the black community, there is one choice.

If you need a cultural icon, you now have that choice.

If you want an agent more popular than you, grab him.

If you want what I believe will be solid representation, and one of the best role models for leveraging individual talent into a brand, Jay-Z will be a good choice.

 

If you want a guy that has been involved in the biggest contracts ever. (and that isn't for everyone!) I know who I would sign with.

Your points are valid, Tex...I think there is room for both agencies...but give it a month or so, and Jay-Z will have one of the biggest contracts ever, too.

 

 

[Texsox]

Your points are valid, Tex...I think there is room for both agencies...but give it a month or so, and Jay-Z will have one of the biggest contracts ever, too.

 

A lot will depend also on the people he hires. You have to admit the world of Rock-A-Fella is different than calling on Rick Hahn, Kenny, and Jr.

[LittleHurt05]

Right, Boras used to be the most famous agent on the block. Now hes not.

 

Thats exactly what we are talking about. Finally you recognize the problem for Boras. In Jay Zs first move as an agent, he took a Boras client who stood to make Boras's company a lot of money.

 

It should be extremely troubling for Boras that Jay was able to get such a big name on his first go around. Especially as it wasnt a Ricky Williams where he had no previous agent. Cano had Boras, already had a lot of money and decided that Jay would be better.

 

Jay Z can sell a dream that Boras cant.

 

Exactly. Boras can't neogtiate $200 million contracts without the best players.

[Texsox]

BTW, this was fun. It reminds me of the days when I worked at home and we did this every weekday.

 

Now, I have a poetry conference to get ready for.

[iamshack]

But no where near as much money as the actual contract. Pretty much only the very top guy in a sport can out perform his contract in endorsements. You are talking about Tiger and Michael type players.

Well it's not like Brody Van Wagenen is going to be incapable of getting a lucrative contract for Cano...I mean Cano is Cano and any team would like to have him. We're talking a matter of degrees, right? Maybe Boras gets guys an additional 10-15% in their player contract? It's not like Boras clients get $20 million a year and other, similar players with different representation are getting $2 million a year.

 

The question is does the premium Boras gets his clients eclipse possible other benefits that CAA may get for their clients? In the end, I think CAA will get some of the younger, African American and Latin players away from Boras, but otherwise, Boras will still have a very successful agency.

[Soxbadger]

Speaking of business success.

 

Boras created the second most valuable sports agency in the world, according to Forbes Magazine.

 

I couldn't find a list that Roc-A-Feller was on.

 

Which you consider a bigger accomplishment is of course, a personal opinion.

 

Clearly, if you are going to pick an agent by facebook likes, the choice is clear.

If you want the guy that Obama goes to for help with the black community, there is one choice.

If you need a cultural icon, you now have that choice.

If you want an agent more popular than you, grab him.

If you want what I believe will be solid representation, and one of the best role models for leveraging individual talent into a brand, Jay-Z will be a good choice.

 

If you want a guy that has been involved in the biggest contracts ever. (and that isn't for everyone!) I know who I would sign with.

 

Roc A Fella was bought by Def Jam Records. As part of the deal Jay Z became CEO of Def Jam.

 

If you want an agent who uses old school hard sell tricks to try and get you more money, sure go with Boras. But I believe that those guys dont get the most money for their clients. Just because he got A-Rod $250mil, doesnt mean he couldnt have gotten him $300 mil.

 

And that is the part I will never convince you of. I dont like people who negotiate like Boras. I think they leave money on the table. And thats why Id never sign with Boras. He could never convince me to sit out an entire year to try and get an extra mil. I think its not a good long term decision and I think many times Boras lets his own ego get in the way of whats best for his client.

 

So this really isnt about Jay Z at all. I wouldnt pick Boras unless I wasnt a very good player and I thought he would be able to get me a lot of money when I wasnt worth very much. But If I was a MVP/All-Star there would be no way in hell Id associate with Boras.

 

But that isnt for everyone.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Soxbadger

[iamshack]

A lot will depend also on the people he hires. You have to admit the world of Rock-A-Fella is different than calling on Rick Hahn, Kenny, and Jr.

We'll see that's what you guys are missing...Jay-Z may run into Kenny at some cosmopolitan event or something, and chat him up...lay some groundwork...but Brody Van Wagenen is going to be negotiating with Hahn and JR...

[Texsox]

Roc A Fella was bought by Def Jam Records. As part of the deal Jay Z became CEO of Def Jam.

 

If you want an agent who uses old school hard sell tricks to try and get you more money, sure go with Boras. But I believe that those guys dont get the most money for their clients. Just because he got A-Rod $250mil, doesnt mean he couldnt have gotten him $300 mil.

 

And that is the part I will never convince you of. I dont like people who negotiate like Boras. I think they leave money on the table. And thats why Id never sign with Boras. He could never convince me to sit out an entire year to try and get an extra mil. I think its not a good long term decision and I think many times Boras lets his own ego get in the way of whats best for his client.

 

So this really isnt about Jay Z at all. I wouldnt pick Boras unless I wasnt a very good player and I thought he would be able to get me a lot of money when I wasnt worth very much. But If I was a MVP/All-Star there would be no way in hell Id associate with Boras.

 

But that isnt for everyone.

 

That doesn't make Jay-Z a better agent.

 

[Soxbadger]

That doesn't make Jay-Z a better agent.

 

I dont know if Jay Z will be a better agent. That is fortune telling.

 

What I believe is that Jay Z has the capability to run just as good of an agency as Boras.

 

 

[Texsox]

I dont know if Jay Z will be a better agent. That is fortune telling.

 

What I believe is that Jay Z has the capability to run just as good of an agency as Boras.

 

I don't think anyone would argue with that statement. I know I wouldn't. And I would even argue that for you, Jay-Z is the better agent.

 

But picking someone new to the business to overtake the #2 spot, and make it seem as if he won't have any problems, is kind of absurd. If you believe the record industry and baseball where that similar, shouldn't you agree that Boras could start a successful record label?

[Soxbadger]

I don't think anyone would argue with that statement. I know I wouldn't. And I would even argue that for you, Jay-Z is the better agent.

 

But picking someone new to the business to overtake the #2 spot, and make it seem as if he won't have any problems, is kind of absurd. If you believe the record industry and baseball where that similar, shouldn't you agree that Boras could start a successful record label?

 

I dont know if Jay Z will do anything. Quite frankly I think hell get bored of it pretty fast and sell it to another agency. That has been his historical model. Make brand, sell it for a lot of money. I see no reason why this wouldnt be similar.

 

Boras couldnt start a record label because he has no access in that industry. Jay Z was able to because he was putting his own records out on the label. Boras has no talent to do that.

 

And Im not predicting Jay Z will beat Boras. I just found the Dr Suess Jay Z thing insulting and I wanted to go to bat for Jay Z.

[iamshack]

I dont know if Jay Z will do anything. Quite frankly I think hell get bored of it pretty fast and sell it to another agency. That has been his historical model. Make brand, sell it for a lot of money. I see no reason why this wouldnt be similar.

 

Boras couldnt start a record label because he has no access in that industry. Jay Z was able to because he was putting his own records out on the label. Boras has no talent to do that.

 

And Im not predicting Jay Z will beat Boras. I just found the Dr Suess Jay Z thing insulting and I wanted to go to bat for Jay Z.

Yeah, but this is one of Jay-Z's largest interests. I think he'll stick with it unless he decides he wants to buy a team again.

[Texsox]

I dont know if Jay Z will do anything. Quite frankly I think hell get bored of it pretty fast and sell it to another agency. That has been his historical model. Make brand, sell it for a lot of money. I see no reason why this wouldnt be similar.

 

Boras couldnt start a record label because he has no access in that industry. Jay Z was able to because he was putting his own records out on the label. Boras has no talent to do that.

 

And Im not predicting Jay Z will beat Boras. I just found the Dr Suess Jay Z thing insulting and I wanted to go to bat for Jay Z.

 

Boras would have access to artists the same as Jay-Z has access to baseball players. Now I agree Boras would have a big challenge to be successful, but if he hired the right people, and we agree both industries take similar talents to be successful, then why not?

 

The biggest difference I see between the two is a record company has artists that they promote in the world. A baseball player has a team and their marketing. A record company has a product to manufacturer. Can a player sell his own t-shirts or does the league and team control that?

 

And wasn't Jay-Z's experience being the "team" and not the player in negotiations? Who did he represent artists to? His own label?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Man this thread got REAL DUMB over night.

[Kyyle23]

Man this thread got REAL DUMB over night.

 

quality attempt at making it smarter. Dont like, dont post

 

 

Boras would have access to artists the same as Jay-Z has access to baseball players. Now I agree Boras would have a big challenge to be successful, but if he hired the right people, and we agree both industries take similar talents to be successful, then why not?

 

Totally disagree. Boras could force access, of course, but Jay-Z has access simply by being Jay-Z. Athletes know him and love him for his music and fame. People know Boras, but musicians arent gonna want to hang out with him because he negotiated a fat contract for A-Rod. Athletes want to associate with Jay-Z because he made The Blueprint, they know he is successful, he parties when he wants, gets what he wants.

[southsider2k5]

quality attempt at making it smarter. Dont like, dont post

 

 

 

 

Totally disagree. Boras could force access, of course, but Jay-Z has access simply by being Jay-Z. Athletes know him and love him for his music and fame. People know Boras, but musicians arent gonna want to hang out with him because he negotiated a fat contract for A-Rod. Athletes want to associate with Jay-Z because he made The Blueprint, they know he is successful, he parties when he wants, gets what he wants.

 

And they know Boras is the guy to make them f***ing richer than s***. Seriously, Boras is the Michael Jordan of agents. Until someone actually knocks him off of his perch, he is the man. Now if Jay-Z can get Cano $300 million, they we might have a real discussion about who is the man, until then, I don't think so.

[Kyyle23]

And they know Boras is the guy to make them f***ing richer than s***. Seriously, Boras is the Michael Jordan of agents. Until someone actually knocks him off of his perch, he is the man. Now if Jay-Z can get Cano $300 million, they we might have a real discussion about who is the man, until then, I don't think so.

 

Athletes know, sure. My argument is more towards Boras being able to jump into the music industry. I dont think it would be nearly as easy for him