2014 AL Central catch-all thread

[LittleHurt05]

The Twins announce that Joe Mauer is moving to first base in 2014.

[caulfield12]

So they're going to make Ryan Doumit the everyday starter at catcher?

 

That seems like a disaster waiting to happen, defensively.

 

Wonder if the White Sox would be interested in Parmalee? He's going to be blocked if they move Mauer to 1B. He's never really had a full season to prove himself at the major league level because they've moved him all over the place.

Edited November 11, 2013 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

So they're going to make Ryan Doumit the everyday starter at catcher?

 

That seems like a disaster waiting to happen, defensively.

 

Wonder if the White Sox would be interested in Parmalee? He's going to be blocked if they move Mauer to 1B. He's never really had a full season to prove himself at the major league level because they've moved him all over the place.

The Twins have some prospect that they hope to have catch.

[Benchwarmerjim]

I think the Twins will grab a FA veteran catcher until Pinto is ready. he has a lot of mechanical issue on defense but the bat seems legit. Its a silly thing to say, but the sounds of the ball coming off the bat sounds different from him. I guess that was the bonus od watching an awful team play meaningless September games. The Twins also have Chris Herrmann, who played back up C and some OF. Doumit has a concussion last year and I think the Twins will stick him at DH and OF.

 

I wondered this last year, but is the MLB and the manufacturers of catcher gear working on a way to reduce the impact of a batted ball hitting a catchers head? When was the last time catchers gear had a change...the mid/late 90s with the hockey style mask?

 

People have made the argument that Mauer doesnt hit enough HR so he will be an overpaid 1st baseman (he was 'overpaid' at catcher too ), but he is an elite hitter and his bat will play at first. the Twins just got to find players who can get on base in front of his on a consistent basis.

[caulfield12]

I think the Twins will grab a FA veteran catcher until Pinto is ready. he has a lot of mechanical issue on defense but the bat seems legit. Its a silly thing to say, but the sounds of the ball coming off the bat sounds different from him. I guess that was the bonus od watching an awful team play meaningless September games. The Twins also have Chris Herrmann, who played back up C and some OF. Doumit has a concussion last year and I think the Twins will stick him at DH and OF.

 

I wondered this last year, but is the MLB and the manufacturers of catcher gear working on a way to reduce the impact of a batted ball hitting a catchers head? When was the last time catchers gear had a change...the mid/late 90s with the hockey style mask?

 

People have made the argument that Mauer doesnt hit enough HR so he will be an overpaid 1st baseman (he was 'overpaid' at catcher too ), but he is an elite hitter and his bat will play at first. the Twins just got to find players who can get on base in front of his on a consistent basis.

 

 

It's just that he is an elite defensive catcher and the best hitter at that position.

 

Sticking him at 1B, he's no longer elite...not $23 million worth.

 

I guess it's all relative, there are lots of players like Carl Crawford who aren't "worth" what they're getting paid....but, objectively, I'd have a hard time agreeing with it.

 

On the other hand, because of the length of the contract, they have no choice if they don't want him to break down and be a complete albatross on the back end of it.

 

He would have been the 6th rated 1B OPS-wise in MLB, behind Davis, Goldschmidt, Votto, Encarnacion and Freeman. 5th in WAR, although that would have to be adjusted because Mauer was mostly catching in 2013.

 

So the question is, would the Twins go out and sign the same contract with Chris Davis, Paul Goldschmidt, Joey Votto or Freddie Freeman to play 1B starting in 2014? How much MORE is he worth to the Twins because of his "hometown hero" status in the Twin Cities?

[Benchwarmerjim]

Also worth noting that Joe Mauer saying moving to first was his decision and not the teams. Obviously, the Twins are going to accommodate this request.

[Benchwarmerjim]

It's just that he is an elite defensive catcher and the best hitter at that position.

 

Sticking him at 1B, he's no longer elite...not $23 million worth.

 

maybe so, but how much is Mauer 'worth' playing first base full time? $18 mil? $20 mil? There is going to be a drop off because his worth as an elite catcher was such an advatange, but I dont think it'll be too much of a drop to call Mauer 'overpaid'

There is nothing wrong in being the 3rd or 4th or 5th best firstbaseman in baseball

[caulfield12]

Also worth noting that Joe Mauer saying moving to first was his decision and not the teams. Obviously, the Twins are going to accommodate this request.

 

Would they have still given him that same contract if they could go back to that moment with the knowledge he was going to be a full-time 1B as early as 2014?

[Balta1701]

Would they have still given him that same contract if they could go back to that moment with the knowledge he was going to be a full-time 1B as early as 2014?

I think so. The thing that makes you question that contract is the disappearance of the power he showed in that MVP campaign.

[Benchwarmerjim]

probably. The Twins were moving into Target Field. They dumped Johan Santana and Torii Hunter in years previous because of penny pinching. Joe Mauer had all the leverage and the Twins were not going to look cheap.

 

Joe Mauer's contract is not hamstringing the team, nor will it with the new TV contract money coming in. The lack of developing quality players is.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Benchwarmerjim

[fathom]

Lots of buzz about the Tigers trying to get Joe Nathan

 

 

Jon MorosiVerified account

‏@jonmorosi

Sources: Mutual interest has developed already between Tigers and free agent closer Joe Nathan. Nathan has Detroit high on his wish list.

[Jake]

I'm not convinced that Mauer has been a good defensive catcher for a while now. He's being overpaid now, but there is no need to fret about him being at 1B. He's going to hit really well. The trick for the Twins is to find a supporting cast now.

[caulfield12]

I'm not convinced that Mauer has been a good defensive catcher for a while now. He's being overpaid now, but there is no need to fret about him being at 1B. He's going to hit really well. The trick for the Twins is to find a supporting cast now.

 

 

 

838 OPS, 8 homers per year and 54 RBI's per season (average) over the last 3 years.

 

That's not worth $23 million per year. If he hits closer to this season's numbers, sure, but then you'd have to cancel out 2011 and 2012 as if they didn't happen.

[Jake]

He has a career 134 wRC+. Paul Konerko's is 120. Paul Konerko's best was 158, Mauer's was 170. Depends what you think a prime PK was worth, I suppose

[southsider2k5]

Lots of buzz about the Tigers trying to get Joe Nathan

 

 

Jon MorosiVerified account

‏@jonmorosi

Sources: Mutual interest has developed already between Tigers and free agent closer Joe Nathan. Nathan has Detroit high on his wish list.

 

That is a great move for them if it happens. Hopefully his arm falls off after he signs.

[Jake]

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=17,d

 

Players with a better wRC+ than Mauer since 2009: Cabrera, Trout, Votto, Braun, Pujols, Bautista, Fielder, Holliday.

 

Since 2005, his rookie season, among players with 4500 PA or more: Pujols, Utley, Cabrera, Wright, Holliday

[caulfield12]

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=17,d

 

Players with a better wRC+ than Mauer since 2009: Cabrera, Trout, Votto, Braun, Pujols, Bautista, Fielder, Holliday.

 

Since 2005, his rookie season, among players with 4500 PA or more: Pujols, Utley, Cabrera, Wright, Holliday

 

 

 

And that statistic only includes offensive statistics?

 

Because valuing him as a 1B but still using old defensive metrics which boost his value due to his defensive abilities as a catcher in his prime aren't very relevant.

[Benchwarmerjim]

838 OPS, 8 homers per year and 54 RBI's per season (average) over the last 3 years.

 

That's not worth $23 million per year. If he hits closer to this season's numbers, sure, but then you'd have to cancel out 2011 and 2012 as if they didn't happen.

 

the RBI stat for Mauer is pretty useless. Last year, no one was getting on in front of him (Hicks took 3 weeks to get a hit) 3 years ago he played half a year.

[chw42]

And that statistic only includes offensive statistics?

 

Because valuing him as a 1B but still using old defensive metrics which boost his value due to his defensive abilities as a catcher in his prime aren't very relevant.

 

wRC+ only accounts for offensive contribution.

[Jake]

And that statistic only includes offensive statistics?

 

Because valuing him as a 1B but still using old defensive metrics which boost his value due to his defensive abilities as a catcher in his prime aren't very relevant.

 

Yes, this counts offensive contributions only. This is how many runs he creates in a park and team neutral environment. 134 wRC+ means he is 34% more productive than the average MLB player. The White Sox finished with just two players above that average 100 wRC+ mark this year, FWIW (Dunn at 105 and Avisail at 109)

[witesoxfan]

838 OPS, 8 homers per year and 54 RBI's per season (average) over the last 3 years.

 

That's not worth $23 million per year. If he hits closer to this season's numbers, sure, but then you'd have to cancel out 2011 and 2012 as if they didn't happen.

 

-That .838 OPS consists of splits of .313/.399/.439/.838

-That also includes an injury plagued year where he hit .287/.360/.368/.729

-Over the last 2 healthy years, he's put up a .321/.410/.460/.870 line

 

Cherry pick a bit more next time.

 

When healthy, the guy is an incredible hitter. Moving him to 1B is going to better insure his health.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

I think the problem is that 1B is traditionally a power-hitter position and Mauer isn't one except for that fluke year in 2009. So they are going to have to get power numbers from another position.

 

It's funny because since they've moved to their new park, they've really struggled because they aren't a homerun hitting team.

 

[caulfield12]

Fine, then 32 homers over 4 years.

 

And you're assuming he won't ever get injured again playing an unfamiliar position in 1B.

 

 

So if the White Sox announced that instead of Abreu, they'd signed Joe Mauer for the 2014-2018 seasons at a price tag of $115 million (plus bonuses/incentives for MVP, All-Star games, etc.), would you be happier with that than the Abreu deal?

 

Paying for his age 31, 32, 33, 34 and 35 seasons.

[Kyyle23]

Fine, then 32 homers over 4 years.

 

And you're assuming he won't ever get injured again playing an unfamiliar position in 1B.

 

So if the White Sox announced that instead of Abreu, they'd signed Joe Mauer for the 2014-2018 seasons at a price tag of $115 million (plus bonuses/incentives for MVP, All-Star games, etc.), would you be happier with that than the Abreu deal?

 

Paying for his age 31, 32, 33, 34 and 35 seasons.

 

I would assume the injury risk would be much greater at catcher. And it seems the player and team are thinking the same way.

 

Of course a freak injury like a groundball or linedrive off the knee is possible, but it isnt like he is in the catchers crouch or dealing with home plate collisions regularly while playing 1B

[Benchwarmerjim]

I think the problem is that 1B is traditionally a power-hitter position and Mauer isn't one except for that fluke year in 2009. So they are going to have to get power numbers from another position.

 

It's funny because since they've moved to their new park, they've really struggled because they aren't a homerun hitting team.

 

The Twins have struggled because they have had no starting pitching for 3 years.

Right handed pull hitters can go bombs away at Target Field (Cuddyer in 2011, Willingham 2 years ago, Brian Dozier and Trevor Plouffe last year).