Matt Wieters

[Dick Allen]

I'd make that deal. Weiters just had a down year and was still 2.4 fWAR. Flowers just threw -0.1 at us. If Weiters is good, the White Sox can extend him and solve the catcher conundrum for years to come.

Extension and Boras don't go together. Considering you keep saying signing someone like AJ for a year or two makes zero sense, how does it make sense to give up players for basically the same concept with Weiters?

[harfman77]

I'd make that deal. Weiters just had a down year and was still 2.4 fWAR. Flowers just threw -0.1 at us. If Weiters is good, the White Sox can extend him and solve the catcher conundrum for years to come.

 

Or let him walk and add a piece through the draft that can replace a player they trade to fill the slot if they cannot find an internal option by then.

 

Wieters makes this a much better team as he is good defensively and a huge upgrade offensively. He will earn less than Salty over the rest of his arb years, is the same age, and has been better over his career. This is a great buy low candidate, because if he bounces back you can spin him next year for better players than you are going to have to give up to acquire him. If not you have at least a serviceable C for two seasons.

[harfman77]

Extension and Boras don't go together. Considering you keep saying signing someone like AJ for a year or two makes zero sense, how does it make sense to give up players for basically the same concept with Weiters?

 

Because Weiters will give you draft compensation at the end, which is something a rebuilding team could really use. There is always a chance that he steps away from Boras and signs an extension if he likes it here and feels he is compensated fairly. He at least presents the opportunity for long term value, AJ and Ruiz do not.

[Dick Allen]

Or let him walk and add a piece through the draft that can replace a player they trade to fill the slot if they cannot find an internal option by then.

 

Wieters makes this a much better team as he is good defensively and a huge upgrade offensively. He will earn less than Salty over the rest of his arb years, is the same age, and has been better over his career. This is a great buy low candidate, because if he bounces back you can spin him next year for better players than you are going to have to give up to acquire him. If not you have at least a serviceable C for two seasons.

He's not a buy low candidate. No way Angelos would allow that. To get Matt Weiters, you are going to have to pay a pretty penny.

[Dick Allen]

Because Weiters will give you draft compensation at the end, which is something a rebuilding team could really use. There is always a chance that he steps away from Boras and signs an extension if he likes it here and feels he is compensated fairly. He at least presents the opportunity for long term value, AJ and Ruiz do not.

So you think the 2016 draft pick, which could even be a second rounder is reason to give up what you would have to give up to get him? AJ and Ruiz only cost you money.

 

[harfman77]

So you think the 2016 draft pick, which could even be a second rounder is reason to give up what you would have to give up to get him? AJ and Ruiz only cost you money.

 

I think the production in between in conjunction with the opportunity to have a long term solution, lower salary, and the draft pick compensation better position the franchise than a retirement age stop gap. We know Ruiz has an offer for 2/$20, not sure what the market is for AJ yet, but I imagine it will be close to that once McCann and Ruiz are off the board.

[harfman77]

He's not a buy low candidate. No way Angelos would allow that. To get Matt Weiters, you are going to have to pay a pretty penny.

 

Then you dont buy. But after this season his value took a hit, so the marketplace will likely reflect that. The only player that I know Angelos has a special affinity for is Markakis, and probably now Machado, but if he gets in the way of a deal, theres nothing you can do. I would still pursue it and see what the deal to be made looks like.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I think the production in between in conjunction with the opportunity to have a long term solution, lower salary, and the draft pick compensation better position the franchise than a retirement age stop gap. We know Ruiz has an offer for 2/$20, not sure what the market is for AJ yet, but I imagine it will be close to that once McCann and Ruiz are off the board.

 

While I do want Wieters, we are only getting draft pick compensation if we offer him a QO, which a couple years from now may be around $16M+. So he'd really need to return to his 2011 form when he led all catchers in baseball with a 4.6 WAR. Not saying he can't, just saying it's no guarantee that we get a draft pick out of him if/when he leaves.

[Eminor3rd]

Extension and Boras don't go together. Considering you keep saying signing someone like AJ for a year or two makes zero sense, how does it make sense to give up players for basically the same concept with Weiters?

 

Um, because AJ is 36, and Weiters is 27...

[Dick Allen]

Um, because AJ is 36, and Weiters is 27...

Yes, but 2 years vs. 2 years and you have to give up something for Weiters. Haven't you constantly said they Sox aren't going to win anything the next 2 years? So why give up good players for a guy who will be gone in 2 years?

[Marty34]

Weiters is mostly hype add Boras to the mix and he's a player to steer clear of.

[Jose Abreu]

Having a switch hitter in the starting lineup would be nice, though

[ron883]

While I do want Wieters, we are only getting draft pick compensation if we offer him a QO, which a couple years from now may be around $16M+. So he'd really need to return to his 2011 form when he led all catchers in baseball with a 4.6 WAR. Not saying he can't, just saying it's no guarantee that we get a draft pick out of him if/when he leaves.

16m+? yeah right. It will probably be around 13m, and only for 1 year. I expect Wieters to command more than that.

[witesoxfan]

16m+? yeah right. It will probably be around 13m, and only for 1 year. I expect Wieters to command more than that.

 

The qualifying offer is already $14.1 million this year. It's not far fetched to believe that it could be upwards of $16 mill 2 seasons from now. It's an average of x number of the top contracts in the majors; do you really believe that teams are going to start suddenly spending less?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yes, but 2 years vs. 2 years and you have to give up something for Weiters. Haven't you constantly said they Sox aren't going to win anything the next 2 years? So why give up good players for a guy who will be gone in 2 years?

 

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying "Why would we trade for Mike Stanton when we could just sign Marlon Bryd to a 3 year deal. 3 years vs. 3 years, and you have to give up something for Stanton."

 

Except the difference is that Stanton will actually command a gigantic contract, Wieters won't. I don't know why people think we could sign Brian McCann for $15M a year, yet Wieters we could not afford to bring back.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

16m+? yeah right. It will probably be around 13m, and only for 1 year. I expect Wieters to command more than that.

 

It was $13.3M last year, $14.1M this year, and in case you haven't noticed, more money gets spent every year. It's highly likely the QO price in 2 years will be around $16M.

[harfman77]

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying "Why would we trade for Mike Stanton when we could just sign Marlon Bryd to a 3 year deal. 3 years vs. 3 years, and you have to give up something for Stanton."

 

Except the difference is that Stanton will actually command a gigantic contract, Wieters won't. I don't know why people think we could sign Brian McCann for $15M a year, yet Wieters we could not afford to bring back.

 

 

The other piece is that the Sox have a lot more leverage in negotiations on a long term deal because it does not cost them a draft pick, but it will anyone else who tries to sign him.

 

And I dont think there is anyway that a 29 year old Boras client will accept a QO. He will likely be looking for a deal around 5/$75M at that point.

 

I think it makes sense due to the upside possibilities, obviously depending on what the O's would need in return.

[Eminor3rd]

Yes, but 2 years vs. 2 years and you have to give up something for Weiters. Haven't you constantly said they Sox aren't going to win anything the next 2 years? So why give up good players for a guy who will be gone in 2 years?

 

The Sox probably won't win anything in two years, but what I have constantly said is that I believe the way to rebuild is in gradual chunks rather than tank-tank-tank-go nuts in free agency. So I am in support of any acquisition that the White Sox make that will retain its value over several years, therefore serving as a foundation.

 

Secondly, Weiters is a 2.5-3.5 WAR player -- large market teams can afford those players, especially when the things they do well aren't the things that are valued most highly by the free agent market, i.e. batting average, homers, RBI. If Weiters remains what he is now or bounces back to his last couple years, the Sox will absolutely be able to afford him when he becomes a free agent. If he breaks out and turns into a superstar, then great. Maybe we can't afford him, or maybe we can, but maybe he also plays so well it pushes our window up.

[Eminor3rd]

Except the difference is that Stanton will actually command a gigantic contract, Wieters won't. I don't know why people think we could sign Brian McCann for $15M a year, yet Wieters we could not afford to bring back.

 

Exactly. Unless Weiters gets a lot better, he's not going to command more than $12-15m per year. If we want to keep that, we can.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Having a switch hitter in the starting lineup would be nice, though

 

Except when said switch hitter has batted about .220/.285/.380 the last 2 years vs RHP.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

The Sox probably won't win anything in two years, but what I have constantly said is that I believe the way to rebuild is in gradual chunks rather than tank-tank-tank-go nuts in free agency. So I am in support of any acquisition that the White Sox make that will retain its value over several years, therefore serving as a foundation.

 

Secondly, Weiters is a 2.5-3.5 WAR player -- large market teams can afford those players, especially when the things they do well aren't the things that are valued most highly by the free agent market, i.e. batting average, homers, RBI. If Weiters remains what he is now or bounces back to his last couple years, the Sox will absolutely be able to afford him when he becomes a free agent. If he breaks out and turns into a superstar, then great. Maybe we can't afford him, or maybe we can, but maybe he also plays so well it pushes our window up.

Scott Boras and the White sox don't work out. Weiters is a short term solution that would cost a lot to acquire. It is laughable anyone would think Beckham and Santiago would get it done.

[Dick Allen]

That's a terrible argument. That's like saying "Why would we trade for Mike Stanton when we could just sign Marlon Bryd to a 3 year deal. 3 years vs. 3 years, and you have to give up something for Stanton."

 

Except the difference is that Stanton will actually command a gigantic contract, Wieters won't. I don't know why people think we could sign Brian McCann for $15M a year, yet Wieters we could not afford to bring back.

No, the argument is he has stated the White Sox shouldn't acquire pieces that are short term solutions. Weiters is repped by Boras. You can say maybe this maybe that, but reality is he would be a short term solution who would cost players who otherwise may be part of the long term solution or used to acquire long term solutions. And Scott Boras certainly is a good reason to think Weiters would be 2 and out.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

Wieters is also a marketable name. That's worth considering/

[Dick Allen]

Wieters is also a marketable name. That's worth considering/

I don't think that is worth considering. If fans don't come to see a team that was in first place most of the season in 2012, they aren't going to buy tickets because Weiters is catching.

[Eminor3rd]

No, the argument is he has stated the White Sox shouldn't acquire pieces that are short term solutions. Weiters is repped by Boras. You can say maybe this maybe that, but reality is he would be a short term solution who would cost players who otherwise may be part of the long term solution or used to acquire long term solutions. And Scott Boras certainly is a good reason to think Weiters would be 2 and out.

 

I don't think Boras automatically makes it a short term solution. Boras gets elite guys overpaid, but Weiters just isn't an elite guy. We may have never signed a Boras FA, but we also never signed a contract over $60m, or a contract over 5 years... until we just did. I don't think it's Boras that is the problem as much as it has just never been our style to be into the elite free agent game. I don't think Weiters will be up there, Boras or not.

 

But if I believed that Boras makes it so there's no chance he doesn't leave in two years, then I'd agree with you that we shouldn't get him. I want to get under the impression that he can become a long-term solution if we want him to be.