Jaso an offseason target

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I like Jaso as well. He would be my 1st option at catcher. Ryan Hanigan would be my #2 option. Very similar to Jaso, just bats RH

Except Hanigan hits RH and Jaso hits LH and Hanigan is a very good defensive catcher in both throwing out runners and pitch framing while Jaso is pretty bad defensively but other than that, yeah, very similiar.

Edited November 15, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[witesoxfan]

Except Hanigan hits RH and Jaso hits LH and Hanigan is a very good defensive cathcer in both throwing out runners and pitch framing while Jaso is pretty bad defensively but other than that, yeah, very similiar.

 

Haha

[Lillian]

Although I am one of the strongest advocates of a left handed hitting addition to the lineup, I don't see the need for a left handed hitting catcher. Any solid defensive back stop, who can get on base at a respectable rate would be fine.

It's in the middle of the order that this team needs that left handed presence

[Eminor3rd]

Although I am one of the strongest advocates of a left handed hitting addition to the lineup, I don't see the need for a left handed hitting catcher. Any solid defensive back stop, who can get on base at a respectable rate would be fine.

It's in the middle of the order that this team needs that left handed presence

 

I think it's safe to say that you are THE strongest advocate for a left-handed hitting (middle of the order) addition to the lineup

[maxjusttyped]

Although I am one of the strongest advocates of a left handed hitting addition to the lineup, I don't see the need for a left handed hitting catcher. Any solid defensive back stop, who can get on base at a respectable rate would be fine.

It's in the middle of the order that this team needs that left handed presence

Then bat Jaso in the middle of the order. Though, ideally, his OBP skills would be best situated for the top of the lineup.

 

FWIW, over the past 3 years, Jaso has been *more* productive than any hitter in the Sox lineup. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...rs=5887,242,319

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Would you trade somebody like Hector for Jaso?

Hell no. If they can get Jaso for some lower level pitching prospects, it would be a great pickup. But to trade someone like Santiago for him would be crazy.

[chw42]

Hell no. If they can get Jaso for some lower level pitching prospects, it would be a great pickup. But to trade someone like Santiago for him would be crazy.

 

I think some of you might be overvaluing Santiago. I'm still not sure he can end up as a consistent starting pitcher.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I think some of you might be overvaluing Santiago. I'm still not sure he can end up as a consistent starting pitcher.

It's not so much overvaluating Santiago, in fact I'm not as high on him as some here seem to be. However, even if Hector only turns out to be what he is now, a young, cost controlled number three or four starter, that's still too much for Jaso.

 

When bucket posted Jaso as a possible target, my initial reaction was a positive one because I figure he would be a low cost alternative to plug a major hole the Sox have at catcher without giving up any of their top trading chips. But if the Sox are going to give up one of their young starters it better be for more than just Jaso.

 

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

FWIW, and I really don't know how to analyze this ...The last trade Jaso was in...

 

A's Got- Jaso(M's)

M's Got- Mike Morse(Wash)...Pre garbage Morse at that, coming of 3 straight good years.

Was Got- AJ Cole(A's, #57 prospect overall) and 2 lower level minor leaguers from the A's.

 

So there were some good players going around in that trade.

Edited November 16, 2013 by scs787

[chw42]

FWIW, and I really don't know how to analyze this ...The last trade Jaso was in...

 

A's Got- Jaso(M's)

M's Got- Mike Morse(Wash)

Was Got- AJ Cole(A's, #57 prospect overall) and 2 lower level minor leaguers from the A's.

 

So there were some good players going around in that trade.

 

That's what I'm saying...the A's aren't going to give up Jaso for nothing.

 

The A's traded the #57 prospect for Jaso and he performed fairly well for them last year. Why would Oakland trade him for a low level pitching prospect? Billy Beane's not an idiot.

[GreenSox]

Hell no. If they can get Jaso for some lower level pitching prospects, it would be a great pickup. But to trade someone like Santiago for him would be crazy.

WE sure as heck shouldn't trade real prospects for him. We don't need to make our D worse.

 

[JoshPR]

Seems to always kill us, wouldn't mind him at all. Seems to do a lot of little things to win

[2nd_city_saint787]

WE sure as heck shouldn't trade real prospects for him. We don't need to make our D worse.

 

Then you're not gonna get him.

 

He was bad defensively, yes, there's no denying that, but to me, I think the offensive payoff out weighs his defensive inefficiency.

 

A round-about case and point is Alex Avila, who ranked worse defensively and we saw what that team did.

 

A positive for Jaso is he didn't allow a single passed ball last year, where as Phegley and Flowers both allowed 8. His big problem is throwing guys out, and I think our LH heavy rotation will help with that.

[GreenSox]

Then you're not gonna get him.

 

He was bad defensively, yes, there's no denying that, but to me, I think the offensive payoff out weighs his defensive inefficiency.

 

A round-about case and point is Alex Avila, who ranked worse defensively and we saw what that team did.

 

A positive for Jaso is he didn't allow a single passed ball last year, where as Phegley and Flowers both allowed 8. His big problem is throwing guys out, and I think our LH heavy rotation will help with that.

You're adding a bad defensive catcher to a team that was already horrid defensively.

The bad defense was a major reason for our complete tanking of last year...I'd argue it was more of a factor in the tank aspect than the O.

And for how long is this guy signed?

I don't like trading with Beane anyway. Our track record isn't the best.

We need to sign Salty...won't even cost a draft pick. We can then make some minor trades to shore up CF, 3B and the bullpen for a year or 2. We don't need to trade any of our pitching.

Edited November 16, 2013 by GreenSox

[South Side Fireworks Man]

We need to sign Salty...won't even cost a draft pick. We can then make some minor trades to shore up CF, 3B and the bullpen for a year or 2. We don't need to trade any of our pitching.

No to Salty at 4yrs/36M as has been speculated. If they can get him for 4/25M, sure.

[Balta1701]

No to Salty at 4yrs/36M as has been speculated. If they can get him for 4/25M, sure.

Unless he suddenly pops a ligament in his elbow and needs TJ surgery, I think it's a safe assumption that there will be no bargain big name free agent signings this year.

[2nd_city_saint787]

You're adding a bad defensive catcher to a team that was already horrid defensively.

The bad defense was a major reason for our complete tanking of last year...I'd argue it was more of a factor in the tank aspect than the O.

And for how long is this guy signed?

I don't like trading with Beane anyway. Our track record isn't the best.

We need to sign Salty...won't even cost a draft pick. We can then make some minor trades to shore up CF, 3B and the bullpen for a year or 2. We don't need to trade any of our pitching.

 

 

I'll take the slight downgrade if offensively the guy is gonna get on base at around a .400 obp on his side of the platoon.

 

And just so it's said, I'm not advocating a straight up Jaso for Santiago swap...either the Sox get back more for Santiago or the Sox give them a guy like Bassit, Jaye, Snodgress, and some lower level guys.

Edited November 16, 2013 by scs787

[Marty34]

Jaso is a 30 y.o. part-time catcher who can get on base and can't throw. He is worth no more than Rienzo to the Sox at this stage of their building.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Jaso is a 30 y.o. part-time catcher who can get on base and can't throw. He is worth no more than Rienzo to the Sox at this stage of their building.

 

He was just worth the #57 prospect in all of baseball just last year.

 

He does have concussion concerns, and he's a year older/closer to FA, so I don't think he'll cost as much as he did last year but it won't be cheap cheap. Rienzo and Snodgress might get it done

[South Side Fireworks Man]

Unless he suddenly pops a ligament in his elbow and needs TJ surgery, I think it's a safe assumption that there will be no bargain big name free agent signings this year.

I agree. So if the Sox are going to overpay for any free agent, I hope it's McCann.

 

At any rate, they need to go into next season with a starting catcher other than Flowers or Phegley either by trade or free agent signing. I just hope they don't lock themselves into having Saltalamacchia be their starting catcher for the next four years by offering him 8-10M per year as some speculate. If that's the case, I'd rather they just bring back AJ for two years at a fraction of that yearly salary.

Edited November 16, 2013 by South Side Fireworks Man

[2nd_city_saint787]

Whoever initially posted that #57 prospect was wrong. Pre 2012, AJ Cole was #57 overall on BA's list. Pre 2013, AJ Cole was unranked. In 2012, Cole had done very well in low A and was promoted high A where he made 8 starts. In those 8 starts he went 0-7 with a 7.82 ERA and 1.842 WHIP. Cole's stock was WAY down from when he was ranked #57 overall so everyone should referring to the "#57 overall prospect" as what it would take to get Jaso.

 

Also, Jaso's value following 2012 was his highest point ever. He had a 3.5 WAR in 2012 and in 2013 he regressed to 1.1 and now has concussion issues clouding his future. So not only is the former return for Jaso being misinterpreted, Jaso's own stock is down from where it was at the trade.

 

That was me, and you're right now that I look at it again. The trade still got the M's Mike Morse who was coming off 3 straight good years.

 

Like I've said, I wouldn't do it for Santiago straight up but if we also got a guy like say Max Muncy in the deal and another hitter Steverson likes I think it'd be worth it in a Sergio Santos type deal (We got 2 guys Marco Paddy liked from his former organization).

[Marty34]

He was just worth the #57 prospect in all of baseball just last year.

 

He does have concussion concerns, and he's a year older/closer to FA, so I don't think he'll cost as much as he did last year but it won't be cheap cheap. Rienzo and Snodgress might get it done

 

Jaso would be a good offensive upgrade for ~300 plate appearances for the next three years. I don't think he's worth sacrificing much of the pitching depth for.

[Chicago White Sox]

Jaso would be a good offensive upgrade for ~300 plate appearances for the next three years. I don't think he's worth sacrificing much of the pitching depth for.

He'd get more than 300 PAs, but otherwise I agree.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I don't know if you're thinking of when we traded Jason Frasor to the Jays but we got Nestor Molina in return for Santos.

 

Ahh yes, I was wrong again. Still though, if we got back some (meaning multiple) hitting prospects with Jaso for Santiago I'd find comfort in the fact that Steverson was the roving hitting coach throughout that organization and would more than likely have some input on the trade.

 

Also wouldn't mind Doolittle and a hitting prospect to go along with Jaso for Santiago.....

 

I'd still prefer it be someone other than Santiago though since I'd like to see him moved in another deal for another impact bat.

[Vance Law]

Whoever initially posted that #57 prospect was wrong. Pre 2012, AJ Cole was #57 overall on BA's list. Pre 2013, AJ Cole was unranked. In 2012, Cole had done very well in low A and was promoted to high A where he made 8 starts. In those 8 starts he went 0-7 with a 7.82 ERA and 1.842 WHIP. Cole's stock was WAY down from when he was ranked #57 overall so everyone should stop referring to the "#57 overall prospect" when guessing what it would take to get Jaso.

 

Also, Jaso's value following 2012 was his highest point ever. He had a 3.5 WAR in 2012 and in 2013 he regressed to 1.1 and now has concussion issues clouding his future. Then consider the fact that another year of him on his rookie contract is completed. So not only is the former return for Jaso being misinterpreted, Jaso's own stock is down from where it was at the trade.

 

I agree with everything you say here. However, "Bill Beane decides to sell low on a guy making almost no money" is not a sentence you usually hear. Jaso is just the kind of catcher we should go after if he were dirt cheap, but I don't see a reason for Beane to move him unless we offer him too much or unless the concussion issue is going to make him basically valueless.