Pre-Winter Meetings Best Course of Action

[iamshack]

Earlier in the thread.

I think this was always applying the criteria that this would be wise.

[Marty34]

I think this was always applying the criteria that this would be wise.

 

No, but I do think given the criminal mismanagement of the minor league system (Dave Wilder) that the organization is now paying for they should be more willing to use some of that enormous equity to dig their way out of this hole.

[southsider2k5]

You don't seem to answer counter arguments. You just move the goalposts.

 

Unless the argument is to overspend and declare bankruptcy, you are correct.

[iamshack]

No, but I do think given the criminal mismanagement of the minor league system (Dave Wilder) that the organization is now paying for they should be more willing to use some of that enormous equity to dig their way out of this hole.

They are; I'm no expert, but from what I understand, there are now limits in place for what you can spend in any given year?

[Cerbaho-WG]

I didn't know SoxTalk had a bunch of budding CFOs! This is a really productive thread with all of the terrible personal finance analogies and the pointless arguing about spending an arbitrary amount of money.

 

Perhaps it would be best if everyone stopped being experts in finance and talked about the original point of the thread.

[oldsox]

Very much so.

Did not know that. I believe the NFL has standards about leveraged ownership, I kind of thought MLB would frown on it, too.

[witesoxfan]

Dick Allen made the best point in this thread. How do you feel when the Sox make $15M and finish second?

 

It depends. I have no idea how I feel about it in that scenario. What's the alternative? Winning the division but spending $1 mill more? Winning the division, trading off all the prospects, and seeing them spend $40 million more with no hope of resigning players? Finishing 3rd and spending $15 million more? Finishing second and making nothing? All of those scenarios are equally likely and stating how I would feel either way is entirely hypothetical. Bottomline, the Sox are running a pretty tight ship right now, but they are losing people in the stands and need to start winning in the next 2-3 years. Signing a guy just to sign him is silly (Granderson), but making a short term investment at a position of incredible weakness to bring back a fan favorite to possibly increase attendance 2% may not be the worst idea (Pierzynski).

 

The Sox are going to position themselves as best as they can for both the present and the future.

[southsider2k5]

Did not know that. I believe the NFL has standards about leveraged ownership, I kind of thought MLB would frown on it, too.

 

It is how the Cubs were bought, and how the Dodgers were bought. Both have a ton of debt.

[Marty34]

They are; I'm no expert, but from what I understand, there are now limits in place for what you can spend in any given year?

 

That's fine going forward, but the Sox have to fix the problem that the criminal mismanagement of the farm system has caused with the current roster. I would say it cost them two core players, not stars necessarily, but say regulars. They should be willing to find those players via free agency.

[witesoxfan]

That's fine going forward, but the Sox have to fix the problem that the criminal mismanagement of the farm system has caused with the current roster. I would say it cost them two core players, not stars necessarily, but say regulars. They should be willing to find those players via free agency.

 

They made multiple $250K+ signings last year and a $1M+ signing this year in Latin America. The Wilder scandal was a knife wound to the chest, but signing mediocre to bad free agents to multi-year, multi-multi-million dollar contracts to fix a problem that occurred 7 years ago is absurd, ridiculous, and it outright does not make sense. That's similar to saying that the Sox need to make another trade this offseason to make up for the failed experiment that was Nick Swisher, or that they need to trade for a starter to replace Jon Garland because they traded him to LAA for Orlando Cabrera. No, they don't, because it happened forever ago. Let bygones be bygones

[Marty34]

They made multiple $250K+ signings last year and a $1M+ signing this year in Latin America. The Wilder scandal was a knife wound to the chest, but signing mediocre to bad free agents to multi-year, multi-multi-million dollar contracts to fix a problem that occurred 7 years ago is absurd, ridiculous, and it outright does not make sense. That's similar to saying that the Sox need to make another trade this offseason to make up for the failed experiment that was Nick Swisher, or that they need to trade for a starter to replace Jon Garland because they traded him to LAA for Orlando Cabrera. No, they don't, because it happened forever ago. Let bygones be bygones

 

With all due respect, when a team's former player personnel director is in jail because he embezzled funds by finding players who had no chance of playing in the majors, that's a little different than a bad trade here or there.

 

Of course, signing a guy like Salty and adding another player next year is not the preferred way, but the organization made its bed when it hired Wilder.

[witesoxfan]

With all due respect, when a team's former player personnel director is in jail because he embezzled funds by finding players who had no chance of playing in the majors, that's a little different than a bad trade here or there.

 

Of course, signing a guy like Salty and adding another player next year is not the preferred way, but the organization made its bed when it hired Wilder.

 

I understand and it's a little brash to compare, but to suddenly jump to conclusions and spend money simply because you hired a crook isn't rational. The only thing you can do is try to correct the initial mistake and move on from there. Spending $15-20 million on free agents because Wilder embezzled money is merely adding fuel to the fire.

[southsider2k5]

I understand and it's a little brash to compare, but to suddenly jump to conclusions and spend money simply because you hired a crook isn't rational. The only thing you can do is try to correct the initial mistake and move on from there. Spending $15-20 million on free agents because Wilder embezzled money is merely adding fuel to the fire.

 

Obviously the Sox should have had ESP and should be punished for not doing so.

[Marty34]

Obviously the Sox should have had ESP and should be punished for not doing so.

 

Instead, it's better to pass the punishment for their mistake on to the fans by cutting payroll when their farm system isn't producing.

[southsider2k5]

Instead, it's better to pass the punishment for their mistake on to the fans by cutting payroll when their farm system isn't producing.

 

The Sox just started cutting payroll. Your cause and effect are about 5 years apart now, and completely unrelated. Other than that it makes perfect sense.

[Marty34]

I understand and it's a little brash to compare, but to suddenly jump to conclusions and spend money simply because you hired a crook isn't rational. The only thing you can do is try to correct the initial mistake and move on from there. Spending $15-20 million on free agents because Wilder embezzled money is merely adding fuel to the fire.

 

How is it adding fuel to the fire? They can afford to patch over their mistake by signing a couple of free agents over the next two years and by not cutting payroll.

[Marty34]

The Sox just started cutting payroll. Your cause and effect are about 5 years apart now, and completely unrelated. Other than that it makes perfect sense.

 

Can't get away with it when they lose 99 games.

[southsider2k5]

Can't get away with it when they lose 99 games.

 

Get away with what exactly? You've made about a half a dozen unrelated non sequitors in this thread.

[Marty34]

Get away with what exactly? You've made about a half a dozen unrelated non sequitors in this thread.

 

Cutting payroll after you lose 99 games with an added $25M from national TV AND then say we're keeping Sale, Quintana, Garcia when there is so little on the farm to supplement them. They can't do both which is why I think there's gamesmanship going on by Hahn.

[southsider2k5]

Cutting payroll after you lose 99 games with an added $25M from national TV AND then say we're keeping Sale, Quintana, Garcia when there is so little on the farm to supplement them. They can't do both which is why I think there's gamesmanship going on by Hahn.

 

Way to ignore what has already happened in the last five months.

[Marty34]

Way to ignore what has already happened in the last five months.

 

Explain.

[Marty34]

I don't understand how you could come to such a conclusion. I don't think Quintana is untouchable and that's just Hahn blowing smoke but cutting payroll and keeping Sale/Q/Avisail are not mutually exclusive events.

 

If they do both they add years to the rebuild.

[southsider2k5]

If they do both they add years to the rebuild.

 

You know what else speeds up a rebuild? Having an ace pitcher at the top of the staff.

[professa]

Saw that we went after Josh Johnson according to MLBTR so maybe we are likely to flip Hector for a position player and sign a pitcher like Danny Haren or Scott Feldman to fill out the rotation.

[Eminor3rd]

If they do both they add years to the rebuild.

 

I don't think you understand how team rebuild their cores.