Hahn says trade talks have heated up.

[Harry Chappas]

Dunn and cash for an average, everyday LHH player.

 

Pure guess. Someone will see a need for a Dunn skill-set at the right price.

 

De Aza, Dunn and cash could really interest teams.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Thanks, Iamshack. I actually enjoyed posting here back in ther summer. I had convinced myself that Ramirez was the

Cardinals main SS target. I still believe that.

 

Piscotty is not a 2nd tier prospect. I expect Piscotty to rank just behind Taveras when new rankings come out unless Martinez is still ranked.

 

The Cardinals minor lague system is really in good shape and there are some quality players beyond the ones that everyone hears about. I would offer Tim Cooney, Stephen Piscotty, Lee Stoppleman, Greg Garcia, Alexander Reyes, and Mike O"Neill as strong players.

 

Ryan Jackson is interesting. I believe he is an above average defensive SS with a modest offense. He is buried in STL and needs a change of scenery. I hope that happens for him soon. He is currently behind Garcia and Kozma.

 

And, before I close, let's take a look at all the possible starting pitchers: Wainwight, Wacha, Lynn, Kelly, Garcia, Gast, Lyons, Martinez with Cooney and Whiting at AAA and Rosenthal, Maness, and Siegrist in the bullpen.

 

Appreciate the response....So I take it the Cards front office would be pretty reluctant to part with Piscotty for Ramirez is what you're saying? Guess we will see how bad the Cards want a SS and how serious the rumors of Tulo are. Its pretty scary to the think the Cards could get a guy like Tulo and not even come close to emptying the farm.

[mike65]

Mike, can you touch on James Ramsey? He's a name we haven't brought up here, know anything about his D in CF, can he stick there? The scouting report I'm reading says he's a legit basestealing threat, but he only had 9 steals. Is he a potential leadoff hitter?

 

I completely forgot James Ramsey. First, he is a very srong defensive CFer. The Cardinals have moved him quickly because he was a four-year collegiate player. His stats won't wow you but I think he will eventually figure it all out. He has definite skill.

 

I mentioned the Cardinals top prospects in an earlier comment and lo and behold, the Cardinals top 10 in BA was released today. Here goes:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2014...p-10-prospects/

[Eminor3rd]

I'd love to send Alexei for Piscotty. Gives us a prospect for the corner that we need badly and opens up a job for Garcia/Semien. Would be a huge win for both teams, IMO.

[witesoxfan]

I'd love to send Alexei for Piscotty. Gives us a prospect for the corner that we need badly and opens up a job for Garcia/Semien. Would be a huge win for both teams, IMO.

 

Agreed 100%

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I'd love to send Alexei for Piscotty. Gives us a prospect for the corner that we need badly and opens up a job for Garcia/Semien. Would be a huge win for both teams, IMO.

 

Yeah, I forgot which publication suggested that deal, but I really like it for both teams.

[buckweaver]

Would just like to point out...

Four whole pages without anyone name calling or saying someone's post is devoid of merit. Mods, please confirm...but I believe this is a new Soxtalk record.

Back to your enjoyable trade speculation.

[ILMOU]

I think Santiago might be at the top of the possibilities. The guys above him (Sale and Q) are pretty much promised to be here. The guys below him don't have as much value to other teams. The Sox have pitching they can move, and if they can get a real 3B or C for Santiago, you almost have to do it.

 

I agree that Santiago is our most valuable trade chip, but I'd think we'd be selling low on him, when he might be just entering his prime. And, I want to wait to see what the market is before selling him at all, if that's the way Hahn chooses to go. Specifically, I want to see what the Cubs get for Samardzija. Santiago is 3 years younger, left handed, has better career stats overall, 2.8 WAR vs. 1 WAR in '13, and has 4 yrs of team control vs. 2. GM's are overpaying for strikeout guys though, like JS, and he'll bring them an excellent haul, I'd imagine. Just fear we're going to undersell Hector, who also has a real nice K rate, because of our depth in starters. Until June of next season, at least, I'd like to trade at the level of Rienzo on down (Milb'ers) in the pitching ranks.

 

Assuming a reasonable bounceback of his stuff after this offseason, I think the plan needs to be trading Danks after he reestablishes some value next season. Big contacts for guys like Ervin Santana this offseason will help the Sox cause in unloading him, if he returns to mid-rotation form. Dude's only 29, and will have ~$32M left on his deal for 2 years plus the remaining ~60 games, if dealt in July. We'll then have three lefties in the rotation moving forward for the near future, which isn't a bad thing. The remainder of the rotation figures to be righty with Johnson/Rienzo/Bassitt/Beck, the likely next guys up, depending on who gets dealt/acquired.

 

I really would like to see Hector perform after his first offseason of preparing as a full-time starter. He's a hard worker with a great attitude and he should be hitting his prime. He's been yo-yo'd around the staff too much - this is his opportunity to step up, like Q did last year.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[southsider2k5]

I agree that Santiago is our most valuable trade chip, but I'd think we'd be selling low on him, when he might be just entering his prime. And, I want to wait to see what the market is before selling him at all, if that's the way Hahn chooses to go. Specifically, I want to see what the Cubs get for Samardzija. Santiago is 3 years younger, left handed, has better career stats overall, 2.8 WAR vs. 1 WAR in '13, and has 4 yrs of team control vs. 2. GM's are overpaying for strikeout guys though, like JS, and he'll bring them an excellent haul, I'd imagine. Just fear we're going to undersell Hector, who also has a real nice K rate, because of our depth in starters. Until June of next season, at least, I'd like to trade at the level of Rienzo on down (Milb'ers) in the pitching ranks.

 

 

Assuming a reasonable bounceback of his stuff after this offseason, I think the plan needs to be trading Danks after he reestablishes some value next season. Big contacts for guys like Ervin Santana this offseason will help the Sox cause in unloading him, if he returns to form. We'll then have three lefties in the rotation moving forward for the near future, which isn't a bad thing.

 

I really would like to see Hector perform after his first offseason of preparing as a full-time starter. He's a hard worker with a great attitude and he should be just entering his prime. He's been yo-yo'd around the staff too much - this is his opportunity to step up, like Q did last year.

 

I think Hector's value will never be higher. He is a year away from arbitration, and is about to get much more expensive, with no real idea what kind of player he will end up being.

[mike65]

Appreciate the response....So I take it the Cards front office would be pretty reluctant to part with Piscotty for Ramirez is what you're saying? Guess we will see how bad the Cards want a SS and how serious the rumors of Tulo are. Its pretty scary to the think the Cards could get a guy like Tulo and not even come close to emptying the farm.

 

Actually, I read this proposal somehwere and started to think about it. You have to really know the Cardinals GM, which would require you to be a Cardinals fan. Mozeliak is REAL conservative. He values years of control above almost all else. So, let me answer the way I think Mozeliak would answer. Piscotty is a five tool player in the making. The power is the last tool to come. The Cardinals would be asked to trade five controllable years for three possible years of Ramirez at $10M per season.

 

I would actually consider this trade, seriously. I think it is fair to both paties. I have trouble believing that Mozeliak woild consider it. The Cardinals are much deeper in pitching than anything else so I am guessing that the Cardinals would prefer to deal from that area of strength. It is solely a guess but I think they would be willing to trade from one of these three: Kelly, Lynn, or Lyons and add in from the minor leagues as might be required; presumably outside of their top 10.

Edited November 20, 2013 by mike65

[ILMOU]

Even though I fall into the believers that Samardzija is overrated, I doubt many GMs believe Hector is more valuable than Samardzija. I think with Hector there's a bust factor that you don't have with Samardzija. Hector could very well outperform him next year but could also get shelled next year and no one would really be surprised.

 

Essentially, Santiago's potential output has much more variability and Samaradzija has a great frame and decent pedigree that Hector lacks. If you're trying to make a playoff run next year I think you're in a safer spot with Samaradzija at the #3 spot in your rotation. Just my two cents.

 

You're probably right, which is why we probably shouldn't trade Hector. He's extremely undervalued relative to his performance, imo, and is no where near the finished product that JS is, relatively speaking. Pedigree, schmedigree, Shark is 3 months older than John Danks, who was dominating in the playoffs when Shark was a minnow.

 

The more you watch Shark, the more he looks like Javy, plus a cool nickname. One bad inning/pitch excuses get old. This is a guy with way more perceived value than deserved, and as a power pitcher, may be in noticeable decline within 2-3 seasons. Ridiculous, imo. Buyer beware.

 

[ILMOU]

I think Hector's value will never be higher. He is a year away from arbitration, and is about to get much more expensive, with no real idea what kind of player he will end up being.

 

More expensive, but still relatively cheap. And the Sox WILL have a much a much better idea of what he'll end up being before having to make the commitment. I just think we're better off waiting a little while longer for this particular player.

[dayan024]

another hahn article

[southsider2k5]

another hahn article

 

De Aza and Santiago seem to be at the top of his list.

[Eminor3rd]

I think Hector's value will never be higher. He is a year away from arbitration, and is about to get much more expensive, with no real idea what kind of player he will end up being.

 

I agree. His peripherals were also substantially worse than his ERA last year, suggesting that there's a good chance he's a regression candidate.

[Balta1701]

I agree. His peripherals were also substantially worse than his ERA last year, suggesting that there's a good chance he's a regression candidate.

Then again, if you actually paid attention to how the Sox dealt with him last year (actually the last 2 years) until they finally were forced to give him a starting spot, you can make an equally strong case that he'll get significantly better.

[greg775]

Are the Sox really going to be able to get much for DeAza and Santiago? They are better than say, my least favorite combo of Kepp and Gillaspie, but are they really wanted by teams? I could see giving DeAza another year and trading Viciedo. Certainly DeAza will have incentive to not be a bonehead on the basepaths after getting called out for it in Hahn articles and Ventura probably getting on him about it in the upcoming ST. Santiago is OK, don't get me wrong, but if Sox can get a great third baseman in return, go for it.

[cabiness42]

Are the Sox really going to be able to get much for DeAza and Santiago? They are better than say, my least favorite combo of Kepp and Gillaspie, but are they really wanted by teams? I could see giving DeAza another year and trading Viciedo. Certainly DeAza will have incentive to not be a bonehead on the basepaths after getting called out for it in Hahn articles and Ventura probably getting on him about it in the upcoming ST. Santiago is OK, don't get me wrong, but if Sox can get a great third baseman in return, go for it.

 

DeAza - probably not

Santiago - most definitely. He is a pre-arb lefty with 200+ innings at an ERA+ over 120. It's extremely rare that somebody like that is ever available. It's the extreme depth of Sox pitching plus the extreme dearth of Sox hitting that makes them even consider trading somebody like that.

 

[Balta1701]

DeAza - probably not

(then they shouldn't trade him).

[ILMOU]

Then again, if you actually paid attention to how the Sox dealt with him last year (actually the last 2 years) until they finally were forced to give him a starting spot, you can make an equally strong case that he'll get significantly better.

 

Yes. That and a good number of "tired innings" at the end of this season, as his 2013 total far exceeded his previous year's total. His late season performances dragged down numbers that had been looking much better earlier. Especially in regards to his command/control.

 

Remember, Coop's philosophy is to keep pitching guys, in order to build their endurance for becoming full-time starters, even if they're losing some effectiveness, as long as they're not having the wrong kind of soreness. Now, Hector may have issues of command that perhaps the org doesn't think he'll overcome and reach his potential, in which case he's likely gone, but otherwise, I really want to see him get a legit shot in 2014.

[Eminor3rd]

Then again, if you actually paid attention to how the Sox dealt with him last year (actually the last 2 years) until they finally were forced to give him a starting spot, you can make an equally strong case that he'll get significantly better.

 

You can make the case, but I don't know if it's "equally strong." Tired or not, he has bad control and his secondary offerings are below average pitches. I personally think he should dump the screwball altogether -- it's got such a soft, predictable break and he doesn't seem to be able to keep it down in the zone with any level of consistency.

[TheFutureIsNear]

So much for Ryan Jackson being a trade target from the Cards, Astros just claimed him off waivers.

[Balta1701]

You can make the case, but I don't know if it's "equally strong." Tired or not, he has bad control and his secondary offerings are below average pitches. I personally think he should dump the screwball altogether -- it's got such a soft, predictable break and he doesn't seem to be able to keep it down in the zone with any level of consistency.

But..."bad control and below average control on his secondary offerings" is exactly what you'd expect from a guy being stuck in the bullpen where he doesn't get to use those pitches and where his arm wears out when he finally gets the chance to. That's why I'd call it just about equally strong.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I cannot believe the Cardinals let him go. I am honestly shocked. What sense does that make? This guy would be in our top 10 prospects.

 

Especially when you consider Kozma is their starter!?!!?

 

I was thinking the same thing. Rare you see a young short stop who can field his position and get on base at a decent clip just let go. I would think he is at worst a good utility guy off the bench. I imagine the Astros had 1st waiver claim and snatched him right up too. Lucky them.

[RockRaines]

I expect to see at least one of our SP's get dealt, soon.