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Hahn says trade talks have heated up.


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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:33 PM)
There is a HUGE difference between a .305 OBP and a .340 OBP.

 

I think you have to take the situations into consideration also. Freese was in a playoff race with a great team around him. Gillaspie was out of the playoff race by August and had nobody around him. It was also his first full year in the MLB. If I had to pick who I wanted next year and the next 3+ I would pick Gillaspie.

 

And Freese is injury prone and has had bad ankles for all of his playing career.

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QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:53 PM)
They must mean depth as in minor league OF help. Their OF is already full and their #1 prospect is waiting in the wings.

 

Not necessarily....with Beltran presumably walking I'm not sure they have a ton of depth in their OF. It will come down to what they do with Craig/Adams. I'm not so sure Adams is going to play OF for them. Especially since he's already developed a nagging foot injury. Also, Jon Jay is kind of a butcher in CF so a late inning defensive replacement guy who can hit a little could help them a lot. Not saying they have a huge need or anything, but its plausible.

 

 

I got a good chuckle out of whoever said Gillaspie is better than Freese by the way. Good one.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:42 PM)
Yep. Getting on base one more time per 30 plate appearances.

 

Over 600 plate appearances, it's 21 more times on base. That means you are looking at 21 more times that he has extended an inning, which results in pitchers getting that much more tired and the team scoring more runs.

 

I don't want the Sox to acquire Freese, but he's a much better overall player than Conor Gillaspie.

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:30 PM)
Freese

30 years old

9 HR

60 RBI

.262 AVG

.340 OBP

462 ABs

Right Handed

 

Gillaspie-

26 years old

13 HR

40 RBI

.245 AVG

.305 OBP

452 PA

Left Handed

 

And it was Gillaspie's first full year and with a horrible cast around him that never got on base. Freese was on a team that made the World Series and had a bunch of guys in front of him that got on base.

 

I will take Gillaspie every day

 

 

Well what about the year before when he did this?

 

20 HR

79 RBI

.297 AVG

.372 OBP

567 ABs

 

 

you know, when he was relatively healthy. Last year was his worst year in the majors, and he missed 24 games due to injuries, and still was just as good as Conor

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QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:54 PM)
Well what about the year before when he did this?

 

20 HR

79 RBI

.297 AVG

.372 OBP

567 ABs

 

 

you know, when he was relatively healthy. Last year was his worst year in the majors, and he missed 24 games due to injuries, and still was just as good as Conor

 

 

Shhhh don't bring things like facts and com

mon sense into this argument. Not allowed.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:50 PM)
Over 600 plate appearances, it's 21 more times on base. That means you are looking at 21 more times that he has extended an inning, which results in pitchers getting that much more tired and the team scoring more runs.

 

I don't want the Sox to acquire Freese, but he's a much better overall player than Conor Gillaspie.

 

If you had a team doing that, it would mean 1+ additional base runners in each game.

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:30 PM)
Freese

30 years old

9 HR

60 RBI

.262 AVG

.340 OBP

462 ABs

Right Handed

 

Gillaspie-

26 years old

13 HR

40 RBI

.245 AVG

.305 OBP

452 PA

Left Handed

 

And it was Gillaspie's first full year and with a horrible cast around him that never got on base. Freese was on a team that made the World Series and had a bunch of guys in front of him that got on base.

 

I will take Gillaspie every day

 

Career WAR

Gillaspie: 0.4

Freese: 8.2

 

WAR per 500PA

Gillaspie: 0.4

Freese: 2.3

 

2014 Steamer projected WAR

Gillaspie: 1.3

Freese: 2.3

 

Career UZR/150

Gillaspie: -5.2

Freese: -4.8

 

Career wRC+

Gillaspie: 83

Freese: 119

 

2014 Steamer projected wRC+

Gillaspie: 95

Freese: 118

 

Hmmm.

 

Wait, I found something!

 

2013 Ultimate baserunning

Gillaspie: -0.1

Freese: -1.9

 

Help me, I'm struggling here. Is the argument that Gillaspie is better something like "Freese's injury-plagued down year in 2013 makes me think that his entire career precedent is lost now that he is age 30"?

 

Because where I'm coming from, it looks like they are similar defenders, similar baserunners, but Freese is a SUBSTANTIALLY better hitter -- like several standard deviations better.

Edited by Eminor3rd
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QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM)
There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile.

 

I like him for some reason, too. I'm not saying we should get Freese, just that it's silly to say that Conor is better. Because as of right now, he just absolutely isn't. But he is younger and cheaper and -- most importantly -- already on our team, so I agree he's the better fit for us right now.

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QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM)
There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile.

The one thing to really be concerned about was how bad he got defensively as the year went on. By the end of the season, he was awful.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:09 PM)
The one thing to really be concerned about was how bad he got defensively as the year went on. By the end of the season, he was awful.

 

Yeah, and what makes that even scarier is the fact that he came into the season with a rep as a bad defender. We were all pleasantly surprised with his spring and first month or so, thinking he turned a corner -- but that seems like it might have been small sample noise now that we've seen what we can assume to be a regression given his rep.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:02 PM)
Career WAR

Gillaspie: 0.4

Freese: 8.2

 

WAR per 500PA

Gillaspie: 0.4

Freese: 2.3

 

2014 Steamer projected WAR

Gillaspie: 1.3

Freese: 2.3

 

Career UZR/150

Gillaspie: -5.2

Freese: -4.8

 

Career wRC+

Gillaspie: 83

Freese: 119

 

2014 Steamer projected wRC+

Gillaspie: 95

Freese: 118

 

Hmmm.

 

Wait, I found something!

 

2013 Ultimate baserunning

Gillaspie: -0.1

Freese: -1.9

 

Help me, I'm struggling here. Is the argument that Gillaspie is better something like "Freese's injury-plagued down year in 2013 makes me think that his entire career precedent is lost now that he is age 30"?

 

Because where I'm coming from, it looks like they are similar defenders, similar baserunners, but Freese is a SUBSTANTIALLY better hitter -- like several standard deviations better.

 

I don't give 2 s***s about all those stupid acronym stats. I like Gillaspie more then Freese. Freese had one decent year (how many players have had similar years once or twice and sucked the rest of their career) and is full of injuries, 30 years old and couldn't even hit 10 home runs at 3B last year.. Tons of people here always talk about 3B, 1B, and corner outfielders must be able to produce the power numbers (not saying you are one of them) and Freese isn't that. He isn't that good of a player, he is average at best and Gillaspie has a CHANCE to be an above average player if he progresses. At age 30 Freese will likely just regress.

 

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:34 PM)
I don't give 2 s***s about all those stupid acronym stats. I like Gillaspie more then Freese.

 

Ok, that's fine -- just so we all know it has nothing to do with who the better player is, lol.

 

Gillaspie may have more upside, but right now, he is absolutely NOT a better player. And Gillaspie is NOT a better homerun hitter. You can cherry pick Freese's worst, injury-plagued year if you want, but you're ignoring the rest of his entire career, including his last healthy year, just one season ago, when he hit 20 homers. Freese has more power than Gillaspie. There is no information at all to suggest otherwise, even scouting reports on Gillaspie have ALWAYS questioned his power.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:40 PM)
Ok, that's fine -- just so we all know it has nothing to do with who the better player is, lol.

 

Gillaspie may have more upside, but right now, he is absolutely NOT a better player. And Gillaspie is NOT a better homerun hitter. You can cherry pick Freese's worst, injury-plagued year if you want, but you're ignoring the rest of his entire career, including his last healthy year, just one season ago, when he hit 20 homers. Freese has more power than Gillaspie. There is no information at all to suggest otherwise, even scouting reports on Gillaspie have ALWAYS questioned his power.

 

Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year.

 

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:49 PM)
Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year.

2 full seasons for a guy described as nearly 30 doesn't sound positive?

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:49 PM)
Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year.

 

Ok, well you are using the "He is 30 and more likely to regress" reasoning for Freese. Thats fine, but what about "Conor Gillaspie had his first season in the bigs at 26, so this is probably the best he is ever going to be"?

 

Usually players that couldnt get out of the minors until that age end up being nothing more than AAAA players. Freese has demonstrated that he can produce at the big league level

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QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:49 PM)
Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year.

 

Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese.

 

Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:00 PM)
Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese.

 

Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer.

 

Yes, this exactly.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:00 PM)
Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese.

 

Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer.

 

Agree, Freese does nothing for this team. He is not the missing piece of the puzzle and is arb eligible. Gillaspie is serviceable until a long term solution can be found.

 

Not sure what the Cards have that match up with the Sox needs. The Sox need long term solutions at CF and 3B, plus to back fill any positions they trade in the off season (SS).

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