JFK Assasination

[Brian]

I watched the new History doc today about the possibilities of it being Oswald alone or conspiracy.

 

What do you think and why?

 

I just feel if there was a conspiracy, something would've came out by now.

[knightni]

Johnson had people hire Oswald.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think there was any conspiracy. Pretty much any cornerstone of the main conspiracies has been busted over the years. The magic bullet wasn't magic. The seats weren't in the position that people assumed they were. Kennedy's head went forward on the initial impact of the kill shot. The acoustics that proved a "4th shot" showed the noise happened a minute after the actual shooting took place.

[DukeNukeEm]

Theres so much disinformation coming from the feds and an absolute glutton of loony toon conspiracy theories out there nobody will ever know. When the official report reeks of such manure as the Warren Commission and everything else is counterfactual confusion I'm led to believe there was a pretty big conspiracy behind it that has been thoroughly covered up.

[StrangeSox]

People have a hard time accepting the amount of damage that a single loon can do. LHO acting alone is the simplest, cleanest explanation.

[EvilJester99]

I watched one that said the fatal head shot was from one of the secret service men. He pulled the AR15 out to return fire, the car lurched and he fell backwards discharging a round that hit Kennedy. They had a retired detective investigate and this is what he determined happened and that is why the "cover up". Its called JFK "The smoking gun" on Reelz TIFWIW

[Balta1701]

People have a hard time accepting the amount of damage that a single loon can do. LHO acting alone is the simplest, cleanest explanation.

The other big thing in this case is that we lost the shooter so rapidly. He couldn't give decades of prison interviews about why, he coudln't write a book about why.

[cabiness42]

I caught the end of something on the history channel that had this guy who used the Zapruder and other films to show that Oswald did indeed fire three shots with one missing its target.

 

He showed how the "magic bullet" could have hit both Kennedy and Connally. He also showed that there was a stoplight in the way of the first shot, which is why it missed, and why a guy standing a block away claimed to have been hit. There was a chunk of concrete near the bystander that looks like it got hit by a stray bullet.

 

Anyway, I'm not doing all this justice but if this airs again or is available online, it's worth checking out.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think there was any conspiracy. Pretty much any cornerstone of the main conspiracies has been busted over the years. The magic bullet wasn't magic. The seats weren't in the position that people assumed they were. Kennedy's head went forward on the initial impact of the kill shot. The acoustics that proved a "4th shot" showed the noise happened a minute after the actual shooting took place.

 

Another good one is the Mafia stuff. Everyone points to Ruby as a mafia guy, and talks about his connections to the mafia. Great, now in order to even start to talk about a mafia conspiracy, you have to connect Oswald to the mafia. Unless you can do that, Ruby's connections are worthless here.

[southsider2k5]

I caught the end of something on the history channel that had this guy who used the Zapruder and other films to show that Oswald did indeed fire three shots with one missing its target.

 

He showed how the "magic bullet" could have hit both Kennedy and Connally. He also showed that there was a stoplight in the way of the first shot, which is why it missed, and why a guy standing a block away claimed to have been hit. There was a chunk of concrete near the bystander that looks like it got hit by a stray bullet.

 

Anyway, I'm not doing all this justice but if this airs again or is available online, it's worth checking out.

 

That is very accurate to what I remember seeing as well.

[witesoxfan]

Penn and Teller's Bulls*** does a great job covering this too.

[Texsox]

Part of the Mafia theory is Robert kennedy was aggressivly prosecuting mafia members and they wanted to get Robert out of the way. However, they knew if they killed him first, JFK would have been all over them, so they "cut the head of the snake off" first.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Part of the Mafia theory is Robert kennedy was aggressivly prosecuting mafia members and they wanted to get Robert out of the way. However, they knew if they killed him first, JFK would have been all over them, so they "cut the head of the snake off" first.

 

Again, so what. The theory makes sense in that there was motive, but in order to make it applicable here, you have to have a connection from the mafia to Oswald, the guy who actually killed Kennedy. A lot of people wanted Kennedy dead, but that doesn't mean they did it. The actual connection between the shooter and the mafia has never been made.

 

It would be much easier to make a case for a group like the CIA, the Soviets, or Castro because there are connections from Oswald to each group directly. That doesn't exist with the mafia. IMO it the weakest of the main conspiracy theories just for that reason.

[nickofypres]

The Rothschilds took him out because he wanted to end the Federal Reserve.

[Jake]

I listened to a lecture from a Kennedy historian and he was incredibly convincing that there is no conspiracy.

 

The interesting thing is all of the stuff is LHO was up to for much of his life. He was basically a radical Leninist communist and undoubtedly wanted Kennedy and American capitalists in general dead. He lived in Russia, which was no easy task. He got a 1-week visa there and asked if he could become a citizen, but was denied. He then attempted suicide due to his despair over not being able to be a citizen of the USSR, and after being treated there they allowed him to become a citizen.

 

He then realized that maybe being a citizen in the USSR wasn't that much fun - he complained in his diary of essentially having enough money and stuff, but nothing to do or spend on. He came back to the US where he was a malcontent and pro-Castro activist (Fidel Castro).

 

Given his propensity for mental illness and obvious preference for USSR and Cuba, it is not hard to conclude that he wanted to kill the POTUS. He had been a Marine so it isn't surprising that he can shoot a gun well, either.

[StrangeSox]

He was a sharpshooter in the marines.

[witesoxfan]

There was talk about how he wouldn't be able to get the shots off in time, but in the Bullsh!t episode I referenced earlier, Penn Jillette himself fires off 3 shots with the same exact gun in the time he would have taken Oswald. That is debunked too.

[southsider2k5]

There was talk about how he wouldn't be able to get the shots off in time, but in the Bullsh!t episode I referenced earlier, Penn Jillette himself fires off 3 shots with the same exact gun in the time he would have taken Oswald. That is debunked too.

 

I have seen it done multiple times, including by a Navy sharpsooter, and an Ex-seal.

 

The 5.6 second assumption is also based on the idea that they know when the first shot was fired, though some feel the difference between the 1st and 3rd shots could have been as long as 11 seconds.

[Texsox]

He was a sharpshooter in the marines.

 

 

But not a very good one.

 

One of the unusual, not not unique, aspects to Oswald's life was being able to move to Russia then return without much trouble.

[Texsox]

Has anyone played the video game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK:_Reloaded ?

 

basically you have the chance to recreate Oswald's shots.

[southsider2k5]

But not a very good one.

 

One of the unusual, not not unique, aspects to Oswald's life was being able to move to Russia then return without much trouble.

 

The furthest shot was 88 yards. IIRC the sharpshooter training Oswald underwent involved hitting 10 inch targets at 200 yards. He did score as a "sharpshooter" in his military training.

 

From his wiki page...

 

Firing range

 

During his Marine Corps service in December 1956, Oswald scored a rating of sharpshooter (twice achieving 48 and 49 out of 50 shots during rapid fire at a stationary target 200 yards [183 m] away using a standard issue M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle), although in May 1959, he qualified as a marksman (a lower classification than that of sharpshooter). Military experts, after examining his records, characterized his firearms proficiency as "above average" and said he was, when compared to American civilian males of his age, "an excellent shot".[57]

[StrangeSox]

But not a very good one.

 

One of the unusual, not not unique, aspects to Oswald's life was being able to move to Russia then return without much trouble.

 

He qualified as a sharpshooter. He wasn't a sniper, but he still met an elevated standard. Plus, Kennedy was only about 90 yards away at most and moving fairly slowly almost directly away from Oswald. It wasn't a particularly difficult shot.

[southsider2k5]

Also interesting... of the witnesses at the scene who were interviewed, 81% of them heard 3 shots. The next most common answer? 2 shots, at 12%. 4 or more shots were heard by only 5% of witnesses.

[Texsox]

Also interesting... of the witnesses at the scene who were interviewed, 81% of them heard 3 shots. The next most common answer? 2 shots, at 12%. 4 or more shots were heard by only 5% of witnesses.

I agree, but notice how the conspiracy people use a simple fact and bend it to their needs:

 

That's part of the conspiracy, the government hid or killed witnesses who disagreed.

[StrangeSox]

"Contradictory evidence just proves how deep the conspiracy goes!" is a common thread in all fringe conspiracy theories.