Has Hahn waited too long to act or letting the market

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The St. Louis Cardinals GM, John Mozeliak hasn't waited long to try to make upgrades to try and steer the Cardinals to long term success. I realize the Card's situation is vastly different than the Sox.

 

Do you think Hahn and the Sox had talks about Alexei ? Was the asking price too high ? Did Mozeliak think Peralta was a better option for 4/$52M than Alexei was for 2/$20 M and giving up a prospect ?

 

The Cards also traded for Bourjos, one of my offseason targets . So both moves eliminated Alexei going to the Cards and the possibilty ,however remote, of Bourjos coming here since we have no idea if Hahn had Bourjos on his "big board".

 

Does the signing of Peralta and Jason Vargas make guys like Santiago and Alexei more valuable ? Does anyone think Hahn is too busy asking for the moon and letting other teams worsen his position by acting now on their needs ?

 

I know it's very early in the offseason but a lot is going on so I'd like to know what everyone is thinking.

[mataipaepae]

I think peralta might be going into st. louis to play 3B.

 

The St. Louis Cardinals GM, John Mozeliak hasn't waited long to try to make upgrades to try and steer the Cardinals to long term success. I realize the Card's situation is vastly different than the Sox.

 

Do you think Hahn and the Sox had talks about Alexei ? Was the asking price too high ? Did Mozeliak think Peralta was a better option for 4/$52M than Alexei was for 2/$20 M and giving up a prospect ?

 

The Cards also traded for Bourjos, one of my offseason targets . So both moves eliminated Alexei going to the Cards and the possibilty ,however remote, of Bourjos coming here since we have no idea if Hahn had Bourjos on his "big board".

 

Does the signing of Peralta and Jason Vargas make guys like Santiago and Alexei more valuable ? Does anyone think Hahn is too busy asking for the moon and letting other teams worsen his position by acting now on their needs ?

 

I know it's very early in the offseason but a lot is going on so I'd like to know what everyone is thinking.

 

[bigruss]

The St. Louis Cardinals GM, John Mozeliak hasn't waited long to try to make upgrades to try and steer the Cardinals to long term success. I realize the Card's situation is vastly different than the Sox.

 

Do you think Hahn and the Sox had talks about Alexei ? Was the asking price too high ? Did Mozeliak think Peralta was a better option for 4/$52M than Alexei was for 2/$20 M and giving up a prospect ?

 

The Cards also traded for Bourjos, one of my offseason targets . So both moves eliminated Alexei going to the Cards and the possibilty ,however remote, of Bourjos coming here since we have no idea if Hahn had Bourjos on his "big board".

 

Does the signing of Peralta and Jason Vargas make guys like Santiago and Alexei more valuable ? Does anyone think Hahn is too busy asking for the moon and letting other teams worsen his position by acting now on their needs ?

 

I know it's very early in the offseason but a lot is going on so I'd like to know what everyone is thinking.

Dude, it's not even December yet...

[BlackSox13]

Dude, it's not even December yet...

No s*** man! I think too many people had an idea in their heads and allowed it to manifest into an expectation. Too early to panic. Besides, one potentially missed opportunity just might lead to a better opportunity later.

Edited November 25, 2013 by StRoostifer

[caulfield12]

We're essentially in the same position we were two weeks ago.

 

Looking for upgrades at catcher, 3B and CF, not to mention a long-term solution at DH to replace Dunn after 2014.

 

2B and SS could go in any number of directions.

 

 

Peralta and McCann signing don't have anything to do with the White Sox...except for perhaps making the likes of Ramirez, Santiago/Quintana or DeAza even more valuable or enticing to other teams.

 

It pretty much wipes out the idea of us spending money on Granderson, since the dollars and years being offered are so insane (not to mention the QO, which wipes out a draft pick and somewhat limits our minor league system's development).

 

Catcher remains the most likely target for that remaining $5-10 million per year, although AJ doesn't quite fit the bill, and the demand for Salty just went up with the McCann signing.

[southsider2k5]

I love these threads.

[caulfield12]

I love these threads.

 

 

80-85% of what's going to happen is already finished with the Abreu signing.

 

That essentially leaves catching upgrades, 3B (and that's only going to happen via trade) and whether or not they trade Alexei Ramirez or wait until mid-season as the only mysteries.

[Dick Allen]

80-85% of what's going to happen is already finished with the Abreu signing.

 

That essentially leaves catching upgrades, 3B (and that's only going to happen via trade) and whether or not they trade Alexei Ramirez or wait until mid-season as the only mysteries.

I think your math leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

[flavum]

The offseason moves started June, 2013 and they'll finish February, 2015. This is a slow burn to get back to respectability.

 

But if you're really looking at 2014, give it to December 12. See what we have at the end of the Winter Meetings.

[Kyyle23]

I think your math leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Lol

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Dude, it's not even December yet...

I'm just trying to stimulate discussion and a lot of signings and trades are already happening . As was the case at the trade deadline Hahn waits everything out for the best deal but that can backfire. I know we signed Abreu and that's great . I just hate coming here and seeing nothing new so I thought I'd get opinions on how people are reacting , if it helps us, hurts us or has no effect on us. I'm find with being patient and seeing what's in store. So far the answers are good except for SS2K5's

Edited November 25, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

I think your math leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

Okay, we'll do an over/under.

 

I think the White Sox payroll won't increase by more than $7.5 million before Opening Day. (In fact, if we trade Ramirez, it might realistically be even quite a bit lower than it is today.)

 

Which side of that bet are you on?

 

Now, of course, to put the moves in terms of a percentage...percentage of what? Dollars? Total moves? Impact of those moves?

 

All of the 3B that would be upgrades are guys we would only control for 1 or 2 seasons like Headley or Sandoval. And Hahn's said repeatedly that he won't make those kind of short-term deals that hamper the team's ability to compete in 2015/2016/2017.

[Dick Allen]

Okay, we'll do an over/under.

 

I think the White Sox payroll won't increase by more than $7.5 million before Opening Day. (In fact, if we trade Ramirez, it might realistically be even quite a bit lower than it is today.)

 

Which side of that bet are you on?

 

Now, of course, to put the moves in terms of a percentage...percentage of what? Dollars? Total moves? Impact of those moves?

 

All of the 3B that would be upgrades are guys we would only control for 1 or 2 seasons like Headley or Sandoval. And Hahn's said repeatedly that he won't make those kind of short-term deals that hamper the team's ability to compete in 2015/2016/2017.

You said the signing of Abreu was 80-85% of the White Sox offseason, and then mentioned about 6 other things that will or could be done. 80-85% would indicate at least 4/5ths of the White Sox offseason is complete, which is ridiculous. And I will take the over anyway. JR mentioned the money is there to add, and they were embarrassed by last season. It more than indicates they want nothing to do with a 90-100 loss season in 2014. So thinking they are dumping Alexei and playing rookies everywhere is unfounded.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

It's November, dear lord.

 

Wait until the free agency settles in a bit. Santiago will have more value after a couple more Vargas deals.

[Dick Allen]

It's November, dear lord.

 

Wait until the free agency settles in a bit. Santiago will have more value after a couple more Vargas deals.

You are right. Generally, free agent signings come before most trades. The Winter Meetings have become free agent signings central. No need to panic, besides the Sox have already made a major move, something the majority of teams cannot say.

[southsider2k5]

You said the signing of Abreu was 80-85% of the White Sox offseason, and then mentioned about 6 other things that will or could be done. 80-85% would indicate at least 4/5ths of the White Sox offseason is complete, which is ridiculous. And I will take the over anyway. JR mentioned the money is there to add, and they were embarrassed by last season. It more than indicates they want nothing to do with a 90-100 loss season in 2014. So thinking they are dumping Alexei and playing rookies everywhere is unfounded.

 

Leave it to DA to take the number literally.

[elrockinMT]

I love these threads.

 

 

I know. Panic mode because things are getting done by others. I think free agency fundamentally changed player movement. Gone are the days when Bill Veeck sat in the lobby at the winter meetings with a sign "Open for Business." Teams can pay for a player they need instead of trading their good players and prospects away for someone. I think often they go that route first. Plus they can get a proven impact player. We have needs at possibly 3B, Catcher and maybe CF and relief pitching. I haven't seen the deals yet that had players involved that were a good fit for the Sox. Winter meetings will be interesting.

[southsider2k5]

Dick Allen was totally right in calling that number out. How could someone throw out such an arbitrary number in the middle of November after the Sox have had one big FA signing and a couple 40 man roster fill ins? It's completely ludicrous to throw out any number, let alone 80-85%, at this point.

 

It is obvious he was saying that the biggest moves have been made. Trying to turn it into something else is just being argumentative.

[southsider2k5]

Saying "the biggest move(s) have been made" and "the offseason is 80-85% done" are two different things. Again, to put such an arbitrary number to it is so silly too. No one, even Rick Hahn, could put a number to it.

 

Aside from that, I would bet the Sox address the catching position, move a starting a pitcher and at least make a strong attempt at bringing in a proven bat. 2 more moves that affect the OD roster at the least.

 

You can make them into two different things for arguments sake. Again, to me, it was pretty obvious what he was saying.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I know. Panic mode because things are getting done by others. I think free agency fundamentally changed player movement. Gone are the days when Bill Veeck sat in the lobby at the winter meetings with a sign "Open for Business." Teams can pay for a player they need instead of trading their good players and prospects away for someone. I think often they go that route first. Plus they can get a proven impact player. We have needs at possibly 3B, Catcher and maybe CF and relief pitching. I haven't seen the deals yet that had players involved that were a good fit for the Sox. Winter meetings will be interesting.

I think you're reading too much into the original post. Clearly I was guaging how others feel so far. I'm fully aware the Sox made a huge splash with Abreu and there's quite a bit of speculation on what the payroll will end up being or if the Sox really plan on being competitive or if it's just the right thing to say to the fans.

 

I gave the option of saying Hahn is falling behind with the signing of a few catchers and Santiago-like pitchers and the Cards trade for Bourjos who is a type of CF the Sox could ve had interest in or if those types of signings are establishing value for Sox players.

 

If Hahn truly plans on having the Sox be competive in 2014 he's got quite a bit of wheeling and dealing to do trading bad offensive and defensive players for better players is no small task. Limiting payroll to $80-85 and comtemplating letting PK come back if he wants doesn't exactly scream " I want to make valuable use of every roster spot and upgrade the hitting and defense."

[Dick Allen]

You can make them into two different things for arguments sake. Again, to me, it was pretty obvious what he was saying.

If you check out my first response, I said his math was off as the Sox made one move, he mentioned 5 or 6 others, and said that was 80-85% done. He was the one that made something else out of it, not me.

 

So you agree, the Sox offseason is 80-85% done.

[southsider2k5]

You can make them into two different things for arguments sake. Again, to me, it was pretty obvious what he was saying.

 

 

If you check out my first response, I said his math was off as the Sox made one move, he mentioned 5 or 6 others, and said that was 80-85% done. He was the one that made something else out of it, not me.

 

So you agree, the Sox offseason is 80-85% done.

 

[Dick Allen]

Why don't you go back and read my initial response. I only said his math was off. I wasn't being argumentative. He responded with a different argument. You are a moderator. Why don't you just be fair instead of trying to rip certain posters for nothing?

[harfman77]

I think Hahn is waiting for the market to be set. After teams strike out in free agency they will be looking to upgrade through trades, which increases the Sox leverage as there are fewer options available in the market place. At the SS position, at team is going to have to decide if they want Stephen Drew for 3/$45M and to give up their top draft pick or to trade for Alexei and take him on at 2/$20M. Both will cost your minor league system some talent. With the pitching options out there, it is going to be like musical chairs and whoever is left out at the end will be incentivised to make a deal.

[BlackSox13]

How about we keep in mind that there are teams playing the FA market and as teams sign their FA's they will have a better idea who they will consider making available via trades. I'd be willing to bet this is one reason Hahn hasn't been able to deliver any presents to the kids yet. Good grief are people impatient!