Frank Thomas Is a Hall of Famer

[southsider2k5]

Morris should get in before Mussina.

 

Mussina had more wins, less losses, a lower ERA, a better K/9, a better WHIP, lower BB/9, etc, all while pitching in a MUCH higher offensive era. Mussina ranked in the Top 10 for Cy Young 9 times, vs Morris's 5. Both were 5 time all stars.

[southsider2k5]

Dan Szymborski ‏@DSzymborski 2h

 

Since @MarkZinno's tweeting at the moment, for Mussina to catch Morris's IP/ERA+, he'd need 261.1 IP of a 12.87 ERA.

[BigEdWalsh]

I'd love to be there to see Frank inducted. When that happens it will be one of my all-time happiest White Sox moments.

Would you believe I drove through Cooperstown once and didn't go to the Baseball Hall of Fame?! It was in the summer of 1974 and I was on my way (the scenic route) to see my brother who was stationed at the naval base in Groton, CT. That's a gorgeous area but I didn't have time to stop, though I sure wanted to.

[Harry Chappas]

Mussina had more wins, less losses, a lower ERA, a better K/9, a better WHIP, lower BB/9, etc, all while pitching in a MUCH higher offensive era. Mussina ranked in the Top 10 for Cy Young 9 times, vs Morris's 5. Both were 5 time all stars.

Sorry but I think morris post season success puts him in front of mussina. Did mussina ever win a post season game?

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sorry but I think morris post season success puts him in front of mussina. Did mussina ever win a post season game?

 

Uhhhh, yeah. 7 of them.

 

He was 7-8 with a 3.42 ERA, 9.34 K/9, 2.12 BB/9, 4.41 K/BB in 139 IP

 

In other words, he was pretty good in the postseason.

 

Morris was 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA, 6.24 K/9, 3.12 BB/9, 2 K/BB in 92 IP

 

Sooo......

[southsider2k5]

Sorry but I think morris post season success puts him in front of mussina. Did mussina ever win a post season game?

 

I believe the HOF comes down to more than A game.

[Harry Chappas]

I believe the HOF comes down to more than A game.

 

By the way, I do not think either of them are HOF worthy, I like Jack Morris better for no other reason than he was a good playoff pitcher same as Dave Stewart.

 

[southsider2k5]

By the way, I do not think either of them are HOF worthy, I like Jack Morris better for no other reason than he was a good playoff pitcher same as Dave Stewart.

 

Mussina is a maybe guy for me at best. Morris is a no.

 

[flavum]

Jack Morris doesn't get enough credit for the innings he logged. Naysayers want to dismiss him as some league average starter, which is crazy.

 

Show me the other pitchers during 1979-1992 that averaged 7.28 innings per start...while averaging 241 innings a year.

 

He was unique to his era. When I take into consideration innings pitched, winning teams and being the ace on those teams, and the time frame in which he pitched, the Hall wouldn't be lesser with him in it.

[southsider2k5]

Jack Morris doesn't get enough credit for the innings he logged. Naysayers want to dismiss him as some league average starter, which is crazy.

 

Show me the other pitchers during 1979-1992 that averaged 7.28 innings per start...while averaging 241 innings a year.

 

He was unique to his era. When I take into consideration innings pitched, winning teams and being the ace on those teams, and the time frame in which he pitched, the Hall wouldn't be lesser with him in it.

 

Averaging 7.3 IP in that era wasn't a big deal. There wasn't the 6/7/8/9 bullpen set up like we see today. Teams had closers, and maybe a set up man. He led the league once in IP, and was in the top 3 a few other times. The thing is averaging a bunch of innings doesn't make you a HOFer, at least not in my book.

[flavum]

Averaging 7.3 IP in that era wasn't a big deal. There wasn't the 6/7/8/9 bullpen set up like we see today. Teams had closers, and maybe a set up man. He led the league once in IP, and was in the top 3 a few other times. The thing is averaging a bunch of innings doesn't make you a HOFer, at least not in my book.

 

I suppose we could find out what the average IP start was from 1979-1992, but the question was--who else during that time matched his durability? Nobody.

 

And I'm not saying people are wrong for not thinking he's a Hall of Famer, but the dismissal of him being a slightly better than average pitcher is garbage.

[southsider2k5]

I suppose we could find out what the average IP start was from 1979-1992, but the question was--who else during that time matched his durability? Nobody.

 

And I'm not saying people are wrong for not thinking he's a Hall of Famer, but the dismissal of him being a slightly better than average pitcher is garbage.

 

Looking a the all time IP leaders, he is #49, and was passed by many of that era.

[Harry Chappas]

I view Morris like Terry Bradshaw. Products of a very good systems that were then able to shine because of the situation in which they were placed.

 

Again just my opinion so there is no need to pull out nine million stats to prove that Terry Bradshaw was the greatest quarterback to walk the earth, it is just my opinion.

[flavum]

1979-1992, the average AL start was 6.23 innings. Jack Morris averaged an inning more than that...over 14 seasons.

 

Again, I'm not saying somebody is wrong for thinking he's not a HOF. There were better pitchers than him in shorter bursts. But the guy was way durable in his specific era, and did some things in the game that were special.

[witesoxfan]

1979-1992, the average AL start was 6.23 innings. Jack Morris averaged an inning more than that...over 14 seasons.

 

Again, I'm not saying somebody is wrong for thinking he's not a HOF. There were better pitchers than him in shorter bursts. But the guy was way durable in his specific era, and did some things in the game that were special.

 

Not arguing the point, because it's your call, but I think a valid comparison to Morris is Buehrle. Do you believe Buehrle is a Hall of Famer?

[southsider2k5]

Not arguing the point, because it's your call, but I think a valid comparison to Morris is Buehrle. Do you believe Buehrle is a Hall of Famer?

 

Not a chance as of today, unless he hooks up with Clemens dealer.

[flavum]

Not arguing the point, because it's your call, but I think a valid comparison to Morris is Buehrle. Do you believe Buehrle is a Hall of Famer?

 

If Buehrle would have continued innings-wise what he did 2001-2005, and maybe added some more postseason success, plus keep going 5-6 more years, I think he would have had a good case. I remember saying if Buehrle did in his 30's what he did in his 20's, then he's got a hell of a chance at the Hall. Unfortunately, he's backed down on innings, and hasn't done anything in the postseason of note since 2005.

[BigEdWalsh]

Just because I was curious.....Frank hit .366 for his career against Mussina; .458 OBP. Against Clemens, .267, .384 OBP. Against Morris .333, .529 OBP.

Some other interesting ones: against Bartolo Colon .483, .605 OBP. Johan Santana .476, .577 OBP. Greg Maddux (4 plate appearances) .000, .250 OBP. Tom Glavine (3 plate appearances) 1.000; a single and two BBs.

Just for fun: Scott Linebrink 1 plate appearance....a solo HR.

Bruce "Cy" Chen 2 plate appearances .000 (of course).

 

[southsider2k5]

Just because I was curious.....Frank hit .366 for his career against Mussina; .458 OBP. Against Clemens, .267, .384 OBP. Against Morris .333, .529 OBP.

Some other interesting ones: against Bartolo Colon .483, .605 OBP. Johan Santana .476, .577 OBP. Greg Maddux (4 plate appearances) .000, .250 OBP. Tom Glavine (3 plate appearances) 1.000; a single and two BBs.

Just for fun: Scott Linebrink 1 plate appearance....a solo HR.

Bruce "Cy" Chen 2 plate appearances .000 (of course).

 

Stealing this for twitter.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I have no real issues with Morris. He was a hell of a pitcher, but there is a big difference between being a hell of a pitcher and a Hall of Famer. I wouldn't have any real issue if he did get inducted as he wouldn't be the worst Hall of Famer, but where does the watering down of the Hall of Fame stop? In recent years they've inducted guys like Rice, Dawson, Sutter and Santo. None of which I would consider Hall of Famers. I've read that something like 1 in 100 MLB players is worthy of the Hall of Fame. In a way that means that a player would have to be one of the top 7 or 8 players in baseball for the majority of their career. Guys like Morris would probably not rank in the top 7 or 8 players in baseball for even one season, let alone long to enough to be considered one of the top 1% of all players to ever play. Sorry for the rant, but I just have really high standards of who I consider to be Hall of Famers.

[southsider2k5]

I have no real issues with Morris. He was a hell of a pitcher, but there is a big difference between being a hell of a pitcher and a Hall of Famer. I wouldn't have any real issue if he did get inducted as he wouldn't be the worst Hall of Famer, but where does the watering down of the Hall of Fame stop? In recent years they've inducted guys like Rice, Dawson, Sutter and Santo. None of which I would consider Hall of Famers. I've read that something like 1 in 100 MLB players is worthy of the Hall of Fame. In a way that means that a player would have to be one of the top 7 or 8 players in baseball for the majority of their career. Guys like Morris would probably not rank in the top 7 or 8 players in baseball for even one season, let alone long to enough to be considered one of the top 1% of all players to ever play. Sorry for the rant, but I just have really high standards of who I consider to be Hall of Famers.

 

I agree with you in theory, though I would disagree on Sutter. The guy pretty much created the modern bullpen with his closing ability. He is a sure fire HOFer.

[DukeNukeEm]

Bruce "Cy" Chen 2 plate appearances .000 (of course).

I laughed out loud.

[Texsox]

Would you believe I drove through Cooperstown once and didn't go to the Baseball Hall of Fame?!

 

I did the same thing. We were returning from Acadia National Park and I decided I really wasn't interested. I will when Thomas is elected.

[The Ginger Kid]

If for some reason Frank does NOT get elected on the 1st ballot I may go to Cooperstown and get arrested for disrupting the induction ceremonies.

[cabiness42]

If for some reason Frank does NOT get elected on the 1st ballot I may go to Cooperstown and get arrested for disrupting the induction ceremonies.

 

Frank is most definitely getting in on the first ballot, but he's going to receive a vote total that is closer to the 75% minimum required than the 100% he deserves.