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Frank Thomas Is a Hall of Famer


southsider2k5

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 12:29 PM)
Yeah, I get that, but for me that stands out as the time that the numbers on the offensive side really changed. The rookie HR record was just destroyed at that point. 40HRs became the new 25.

Agreed. But if you remember from the Canseco book, PEDs had nothing to do with the record. Canseco introduced McGwire to PEDs after all that occurred, after he was in the MLB.

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The 2014 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!

 

Updated: Jan.7 - 1:35 ~ 155 Full Ballots ~ (27.2% of vote ~ based on last year)

 

99.4 - Maddux

96.1 - Glavine

92.3 - F. Thomas

78.7 - Biggio

———————————

69.0 - Piazza

61.3 - Bagwell

60.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris

56.1 - Raines

41.3 - Bonds

40.6 - Clemens

38.1 - Schilling

29.7 - Mussina

24.5 - E. Martinez

24.5 - L. Smith

23.9 - Trammell

14.8 - Kent

14.2 - McGriff

9.7 - L. Walker

9.7 - McGwire

7.7 - S. Sosa

5.8 - R. Palmeiro

5.8 - Mattingly

———————————

0.6 - P. Rose (Write-In)

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 12:38 PM)
The 2014 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!

 

Updated: Jan.7 - 1:35 ~ 155 Full Ballots ~ (27.2% of vote ~ based on last year)

 

99.4 - Maddux

96.1 - Glavine

92.3 - F. Thomas

78.7 - Biggio

———————————

69.0 - Piazza

61.3 - Bagwell

60.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris

56.1 - Raines

41.3 - Bonds

40.6 - Clemens

38.1 - Schilling

29.7 - Mussina

24.5 - E. Martinez

24.5 - L. Smith

23.9 - Trammell

14.8 - Kent

14.2 - McGriff

9.7 - L. Walker

9.7 - McGwire

7.7 - S. Sosa

5.8 - R. Palmeiro

5.8 - Mattingly

———————————

0.6 - P. Rose (Write-In)

I wonder if it's the drug problems keeping Raines out.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 12:38 PM)
The 2014 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!

 

Updated: Jan.7 - 1:35 ~ 155 Full Ballots ~ (27.2% of vote ~ based on last year)

 

99.4 - Maddux

96.1 - Glavine

92.3 - F. Thomas

78.7 - Biggio

———————————

69.0 - Piazza

61.3 - Bagwell

60.0 - Jack (The Jack) Morris

56.1 - Raines

41.3 - Bonds

40.6 - Clemens

38.1 - Schilling

29.7 - Mussina

24.5 - E. Martinez

24.5 - L. Smith

23.9 - Trammell

14.8 - Kent

14.2 - McGriff

9.7 - L. Walker

9.7 - McGwire

7.7 - S. Sosa

5.8 - R. Palmeiro

5.8 - Mattingly

———————————

0.6 - P. Rose (Write-In)

Who voted for Pete Rose?

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 01:42 PM)
I never have understood what is taking Raines and Lee Smith so long.

Here's one version of the case against smith.

21. Lee Smith (29.6 WAR) -- He obviously has his supporters, collecting 47.8 percent of the vote last year, more than Curt Schilling, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker and Fred McGriff, not to mention the PED guys. I don’t get the love the Baseball Writers' Association of America has bestowed on closers, most of whom are failed starters (Smith had a 5.98 ERA in Double-A when he was converted to the bullpen), while at the same dismissing Martinez because he was primarily a DH or dismissing the all-around ability of a guy like Trammell. I mean, you don’t think David Cone would have been a great closer? Orel Hershiser? A vote for Smith is a vote for the position as much as for the value Smith actually provided in his career.

 

That doesn’t mean he wasn’t excellent at his job. He was the all-time saves leader when he retired and led his league four times in saves. He even finished second, fourth, fifth and ninth in Cy Young voting, although his second-place finish in 1991 (47 saves, 2.34 ERA, 70 hits and 67 strikeouts in 73 innings) looks kind of funny in retrospect, as it wasn’t really that dominant a season other than the saves total.

 

Was Smith ever the best reliever in the league? To me, he always seemed like a very good closer who lasted a long time. Well, let’s check. Using FanGraphs' WAR, here are Smith’s year-by-year rankings among MLB relievers:

 

1982: 8th

1983: 5th

1984: 4th

1985: 5th

1986: 8th

1987: 3rd

1988: 7th

1989: 17th

1990: 4th

1991: 9th

1992: 20th

1993: 87th

1994: 31st

1995: 30th

 

By this method, he was never the best reliever in the league, although admittedly consistently excellent for that 10-year period from 1982 to 1991. Is that enough?

 

Look, most closers don’t last 14 years on the job, so give Smith credit for his durability. But a 3.03 career ERA as a reliever -- most of that spent in the pre-steroids/high-offense era -- just doesn’t blow me away. If you’re a closer, I want to be blown away if I'm voting you for the Hall of Fame.

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I agree with Schoenfield there on Lee Smith. Closers have to blow it out of the water to get in the Hall. Truthfully, after Rivera gets in, they should close it off for the under 80 innings pitchers. I don't even want Trevor Hoffman in even though he will.

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http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsst...ing_gizmo/P1000

 

 

Updated: Jan.7 - 4:15 ~ 161 Full Ballots ~ (28.3% of vote ~ based on last year)

 

99.4 - Maddux

96.3 - Glavine

90.7 - F. Thomas

78.9 - Biggio

———————————

67.7 - Piazza

60.2 - Bagwell

60.2 - Jack (The Jack) Morris

55.3 - Raines

41.6 - Bonds

41.0 - Clemens

36.6 - Schilling

29.2 - Mussina

26.1 - L. Smith

24.2 - E. Martinez

24.2 - Trammell

14.3 - Kent

13.7 - McGriff

9.3 - L. Walker

9.3 - McGwire

7.5 - S. Sosa

6.2 - R. Palmeiro

5.6 - Mattingly

———————————

0.6 - P. Rose (Write-In)

 

Thanks to Butch, Ilychs Morales, leokitty & Barnald for their help.

 

As usual…send them in if you come across any ballots!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dropped a little :(

 

 

 

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Frank is at 154-170.

 

90.6%

 

The percentages are coming down, but I think Frank is safe.

 

Biggio at 78.8%.

 

Sosa and Palmeiro falling off the ballot is a strong possibility. Larry Walker is way down there too. Even though I wouldn't vote for him, I hope he doesn't fall off the ballot.

 

 

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QUOTE (Real @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 02:08 PM)
it's in his book for cryin out loud

 

http://metsblog.com/news/mike-piazza/mike-...-upcoming-book/

 

he also admits to using amphetamines, another PED

 

dude was doing everything in his power to boost his game

80-90% of all players before the drug testing started used amphetamines. It was readily available in the coffee in every clubhouse.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 07:26 AM)
80-90% of all players before the drug testing started used amphetamines. It was readily available in the coffee in every clubhouse.

 

that's...... fine, but it doesn't refute anything I said

 

androstenedione is a PED, has always been, same with amphetamines

 

they weren't always banned substances but that isn't what was said

 

what was said was "piazza never used PEDs", which is 100% false

 

 

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QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 06:51 AM)

 

I typically do not believe in harrassing or making personal attacks against people - in person or online - but I think I can make an exception on this one. Gurnick is an absolute f***ing douche tool.

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