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Lobaton traded to Nats


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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 06:52 AM)
Whatever they do at catcher is likely going to be boring and unspectacular. You're likely going to b**** no matter what happens.

 

 

AJ Pierzynski was just traded by the Boston Red Sox to the Chicago White Sox for the rights to Gordon Beckham, Alex Rios, Adam Dunn and Dayan Viciedo.

 

Ozzie Guillen named 3B coach, with free reign to provide post-game quotes.

 

Paul Konerko named starter at DH.

 

Joe Crede has just undergone a series of ultra-secretive back surgeries in Switzerland and will fight it out for the 3B job in spring training.

 

Buehrle reacquired from the Jays, along with Colby Rasmus, for Marcus Semien, Eric Johnson, Daniel Webb, Carlos Sanchez and Jared Mitchell.

Edited by caulfield12
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 07:07 AM)
AJ Pierzynski was just traded by the Boston Red Sox to the Chicago White Sox for the rights to Gordon Beckham, Alex Rios, Adam Dunn and Dayan Viciedo.

 

Ozzie Guillen named 3B coach, with free reign to provide post-game quotes.

 

Paul Konerko named starter at DH.

 

Joe Crede has just undergone a series of ultra-secretive back surgeries in Switzerland and will fight it out for the 3B job in spring training.

 

Buehrle reacquired from the Jays, along with Colby Rasmus, for Marcus Semien, Eric Johnson, Daniel Webb, Carlos Sanchez and Jared Mitchell.

 

Well greg would have an ultra boner, but the Sox would still lose 90 games

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  • 2 months later...
QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 09:14 AM)
Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays 8m

 

BREAKING: #Rays have traded Lobaton, and 2 others (likely minor leaguers), to #Nats for RHP Nate Karns.

 

Good. Now maybe since they picked up some depth they'll be less likely to take Nieto back if he doesn't stick on the 25 and we can put him in the minors

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QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 09:18 AM)
Good. Now maybe since they picked up some depth they'll be less likely to take Nieto back if he doesn't stick on the 25 and we can put him in the minors

 

This changes literally nothing with Nieto, which is not a good or bad thing. The Nats did not think enough of him to put him on the 40 man roster. They do not value him highly. They will likely give him away for a song. I'd prefer Rock-a-bye Baby, but will part with Happy Birthday.

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QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 09:22 AM)
This changes literally nothing with Nieto, which is not a good or bad thing. The Nats did not think enough of him to put him on the 40 man roster. They do not value him highly. They will likely give him away for a song. I'd prefer Rock-a-bye Baby, but will part with Happy Birthday.

 

This could be true, but it also happened because the Nats have several catchers they like. It's not solely b/c Nieto is what he is.

 

I'm reading whatever I can on him...myy take on him is...early levels were a disappointment, but has played very well recently for long stretches (albeit not at a level fitting of his age)

 

We had no young talent a year ago. Have to get creative (and we have). If he sticks on the roster he accomplishes the magical feat of defeating (just one of) these 2013 OPSes: .603, .522. That's what he'd be competing with in camp, as things stand. Plus he's said to have the defense (and of course the switch hit aspect)

Edited by Jose Paniagua
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QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:29 AM)
This could be true, but it also happened because the Nats have several catchers they like. It's not solely b/c Nieto is what he is.

 

I'm reading whatever I can on him...myy take on him is...early levels were a disappointment, but has played very well recently for long stretches (albeit not at a level fitting of his age)

 

We had no young talent a year ago. Have to get creative (and we have). If he sticks on the roster he accomplishes the magical feat of defeating (just one of) these 2013 OPSes: .603, .522. That's what he'd be competing with in camp, as things stand. Plus he's said to have the defense (and of course the switch hit aspect)

If 2014 is a lost season and he puts up a.450 OPS in the big leagues but gets some learning time, and we send him to AAA for the full season next year, basically we lose a year of service time on him and maybe hurt his development by over-matching him earlier than he should have been. Given that we wouldn't have him otherwise, I'm ok with that.

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A look at the recent history of Rule 5 pick ups would lead one to believe, it probably doesn't matter if the Nats really want Nieto back or not, and in the long run, it probably won't matter if he stays with the White Sox or not., and 2 years from now we will all forget he even existed. But if he was a prospect the Nats really thought that highly of, they probably don't expose him to the rule 5.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:36 AM)
A look at the recent history of Rule 5 pick ups would lead one to believe, it probably doesn't matter if the Nats really want Nieto back or not, and in the long run, it probably won't matter if he stays with the White Sox or not., and 2 years from now we will all forget he even existed. But if he was a prospect the Nats really thought that highly of, they probably don't expose him to the rule 5.

If all we did is pick up a free lottery ticket...who cares what the Nats thought? Free lottery ticket.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 09:37 AM)
If all we did is pick up a free lottery ticket...who cares what the Nats thought? Free lottery ticket.

Where that would come in is if you want this guy but don't want him on the major league roster. If he isn't ready to play at the MLB level, you will have an overmatched guy picking up playing time and not progressing. It isn't like he is 21 years old. The clock is ticking. If the Nats liked him very much, they would be less likely to let the Sox have him for what he is probably worth.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:44 AM)
Where that would come in is if you want this guy but don't want him on the major league roster. If he isn't ready to play at the MLB level, you will have an overmatched guy picking up playing time and not progressing. It isn't like he is 21 years old. The clock is ticking. If the Nats liked him very much, they would be less likely to let the Sox have him for what he is probably worth.

I'd complain more if I felt like he was clearly blocking someone who earned a shot at the major league roster but that just isn't the case with our catcher's spot. I'd also complain more if he was a guy we already had the rights to who was being promoted from A-ball to the big leagues.

 

But quite simply, even if he's an utter failure on the major league roster because he's not ready...having him on the big league roster only improves the chances of the Sox having the catcher's spot filled long term. It adds a warm body to the catching rotation that wasn't there beforehand and does so with no cost in big league playing time to anyone who clearly deserves it.

 

Maybe come July I'll be singing a different tune if Phegley's putting up a 1.500 OPS at Charlotte again, but until then, heck with it. If having him in the big leagues hurts his development...what's the harm to this team?

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 09:50 AM)
I'd complain more if I felt like he was clearly blocking someone who earned a shot at the major league roster but that just isn't the case with our catcher's spot. I'd also complain more if he was a guy we already had the rights to who was being promoted from A-ball to the big leagues.

 

But quite simply, even if he's an utter failure on the major league roster because he's not ready...having him on the big league roster only improves the chances of the Sox having the catcher's spot filled long term. It adds a warm body to the catching rotation that wasn't there beforehand and does so with no cost in big league playing time to anyone who clearly deserves it.

 

Maybe come July I'll be singing a different tune if Phegley's putting up a 1.500 OPS at Charlotte again, but until then, heck with it. If having him in the big leagues hurts his development...what's the harm to this team?

He is 24 years old and hasn't played above A ball. He was a Rule 5 pick up. If he sticks, he will struggle and be a back up, so his development will fall a little more. This isn't like you are getting a first round talent.

 

Unless he shocks the world and shows he is ready to play at least half the time on the major league team, the best case scenerio for the White Sox is they see something they like and can work something out to have him play every day in Birmingham or Charlotte.

 

Having him on the roster just to have him on the roster, and not getting enough playing time to get better, defeats any purpose. It would basically be losing a year of development.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:01 AM)
He is 24 years old and hasn't played above A ball. He was a Rule 5 pick up. If he sticks, he will struggle and be a back up, so his development will fall a little more. This isn't like you are getting a first round talent.

 

Unless he shocks the world and shows he is ready to play at least half the time on the major league team, the best case scenerio for the White Sox is they see something they like and can work something out to have him play every day in Birmingham or Charlotte.

 

Having him on the roster just to have him on the roster, and not getting enough playing time to get better, defeats any purpose. It would basically be losing a year of development.

Correct...and I have no problem with that given that otherwise he wouldn't be developing from us at all.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:16 AM)
Who is he taking valuable development time away from?

Flowers, Phegley. Why are their odds longer than a guy I am assuming you had never heard of or have seen play before the Sox selected him?

 

And you lose development time, so why would 2015 be any better for him than 2014?

 

Stashing mediocre players who aren't reade for a year just to keep them is a waste of a roster spot and money. Especially a catcher who is going to have to play a significant amount no matter what. A pitcher you can use in garbage time. I would really doubt the Nats need a significant return if the Sox want to keep him, so I am guessing Birmingham or Charlotte.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:23 AM)
Flowers, Phegley. Why are their odds longer than a guy I am assuming you had never heard of or have seen play before the Sox selected him?

 

And you lose development time, so why would 2015 be any better for him than 2014?

 

Stashing mediocre players who aren't reade for a year just to keep them is a waste of a roster spot and money. Especially a catcher who is going to have to play a significant amount no matter what. A pitcher you can use in garbage time. I would really doubt the Nats need a significant return if the Sox want to keep him, so I am guessing Birmingham or Charlotte.

IMO, Flowers is already going to get plenty of development time...and I'm not sure he's earned it anyway. Right now he's still the starting catcher unless he's released after ST.

 

And Phegley...phrankly, after his big league performance last season even a good spring training wouldn't convince me that he belongs on the big league team right now. Charlotte for a couple months at the very least seems like a good reaction to how he performed in the big leagues last year.

 

If the White Sox find something of really tiny utility that they'd be willing to give up for Nieto, fine. I'm not even sure I'd give up Jared Mitchell for him right now since all we have to do is keep him on the big league roster.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:26 AM)
IMO, Flowers is already going to get plenty of development time...and I'm not sure he's earned it anyway. Right now he's still the starting catcher unless he's released after ST.

 

And Phegley...phrankly, after his big league performance last season even a good spring training wouldn't convince me that he belongs on the big league team right now. Charlotte for a couple months at the very least seems like a good reaction to how he performed in the big leagues last year.

 

If the White Sox find something of really tiny utility that they'd be willing to give up for Nieto, fine. I'm not even sure I'd give up Jared Mitchell for him right now since all we have to do is keep him on the big league roster.

I see what you did there. Nice.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:26 AM)
IMO, Flowers is already going to get plenty of development time...and I'm not sure he's earned it anyway. Right now he's still the starting catcher unless he's released after ST.

 

And Phegley...phrankly, after his big league performance last season even a good spring training wouldn't convince me that he belongs on the big league team right now. Charlotte for a couple months at the very least seems like a good reaction to how he performed in the big leagues last year.

 

If the White Sox find something of really tiny utility that they'd be willing to give up for Nieto, fine. I'm not even sure I'd give up Jared Mitchell for him right now since all we have to do is keep him on the big league roster.

I don't understand your argument. If you think he can be good in the future but isn't right now, keeping him and playing him can make him better. If he isn't ready to play, he is going to get broken on the major league level. Having him up if he isn't near ready serves zero purpose. He doesn't get better, gets little experience and may even go backwards. Playing at AA or AAA he may be ready to help you next year. Sitting on the bench and being overmatched won't help him and can ultimately hurt him.

 

People in the past have complained the White Sox rush their prospects. This is the ultimate rush if you put him on the major league roster. A catcher cannot be hidden. If you think Nieto is a decent enough prospect to keep on the major league roster, wouldn't he at least be worth Jared Mitchell to be able to send to AA or AAA and actually have an opportunity to develop?

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:41 AM)
I don't understand your argument. If you think he can be good in the future but isn't right now, keeping him and playing him can make him better. If he isn't ready to play, he is going to get broken on the major league level. Having him up if he isn't near ready serves zero purpose. He doesn't get better, gets little experience and may even go backwards. Playing at AA or AAA he may be ready to help you next year. Sitting on the bench and being overmatched won't help him and can ultimately hurt him.

 

People in the past have complained the White Sox rush their prospects. This is the ultimate rush if you put him on the major league roster. A catcher cannot be hidden. If you think Nieto is a decent enough prospect to keep on the major league roster, wouldn't he at least be worth Jared Mitchell to be able to send to AA or AAA and actually have an opportunity to develop?

It depends on a couple things...how good you really think Neito is and how much you think it would hurt him to sit on the bench. I think he's a wild card even if treated 100% correctly, so that leaves me in a position of being willing to risk the damage to his development, because I don't see a major downside (and frankly, having him up potentially helps us develop Phegley by getting him regular AB's at Charlotte too).

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:45 AM)
It depends on a couple things...how good you really think Neito is and how much you think it would hurt him to sit on the bench. I think he's a wild card even if treated 100% correctly, so that leaves me in a position of being willing to risk the damage to his development, because I don't see a major downside (and frankly, having him up potentially helps us develop Phegley by getting him regular AB's at Charlotte too).

 

If you think this team isn't going to compete this year, there is no downside.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 10:45 AM)
It depends on a couple things...how good you really think Neito is and how much you think it would hurt him to sit on the bench. I think he's a wild card even if treated 100% correctly, so that leaves me in a position of being willing to risk the damage to his development, because I don't see a major downside (and frankly, having him up potentially helps us develop Phegley by getting him regular AB's at Charlotte too).

IMO, rule 5 guys are fringy prospects to begin with. If you think Phegley can't and won't hit, I don't know by looking at their numbers how anyone could conclude Nieto would be better. Fringy prospects who miss a year of development isn't a guy trajectory to me. Pitchers I can see, but is there any precedence a rule 5 position player basically be stashed on the major league roster who then ultimately becomes a useful piece?

 

You can have Phegley at AAA, Nieto at AA and let Gimenez be the back up catcher if winning means nothing.

Edited by Dick Allen
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