Why Not Cano?

[BlackSox13]

I know the Sox don't have the payroll space but the idea of Cano hitting at the Cell is just, WOW! Cano with Avi and Abreu batting around him is fun to think about.

[Wanne]

why? why would you commit that much money to one player who's 31 years old...for a rebuilding team? D-U-M-B.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Wanne

[2nd_city_saint787]

If you're waiting on only contributors from the minors to get us to 90 wins, then you'll be waiting a long-ass time and might as well blow things. Even if Cano gets us to 80 wins next year, we're in a much better position to be a 90 win team in 2015.

 

Exactly. theoretically the can keep the pitching staff intact for 2014 then come 2015 they should have a lot more room to make a trade for yet another "big piece".

 

Also, the Mariners offense was nearly as bad as the Sox (they scored just 26 more runs, had a lower batting average, and their OBP was just 4 points higher)...Are they D-U-M-B for throwing money his way?

Edited December 4, 2013 by scs787

[thxfrthmmrs]

Not every team has the money to spend or is willing to spend the money on a guy are Cano. The Sox is one of those teams. A man can dream, but he has to come back to reality at some point.

[Balta1701]

Exactly. theoretically the can keep the pitching staff intact for 2014 then come 2015 they should have a lot more room to make a trade for yet another "big piece".

 

Also, the Mariners offense was nearly as bad as the Sox (they scored just 26 more runs, had a lower batting average, and their OBP was just 4 points higher)...Are they D-U-M-B for throwing money his way?

26 more runs than the White Sox while playing in Safeco instead of the Cell.

[witesoxfan]

You don't think they are a 90-loss team with Cano?

 

No

 

They may not be a 90 loss team, but I'd be surprised if they were a .500 team. I mean, are you really happy with 76-86?

 

I disagree that Cano wouldn't sell tickets, but he doesn't do enough to make the Sox competitive.

 

---

 

This is not the year to spend. It's not a free agent market that lines up well with the Sox weaknesses (other than Abreu), and they'll have more to spend next season. Dunn and Lindstrom are free agents who almost certainly won't be brought back, which frees up $19 mill. There are others - De Aza, Beckham, Flowers, Keppinger, Ramirez - who could be traded or non-tendered, which would free up money or commitments to spend money in the future.

 

The team is not going to be very good this year, but there have been significant steps taken in the past 5 months to set the foundation for a team that can win for a long time. I feel Hahn has done a wonderful job thus far as GM and would give him an A.

[southsider2k5]

8 years for a 31 year old Cano?

 

Can I just Ca-No?

[Balta1701]

8 years for a 31 year old Cano?

 

Can I just Ca-No?

I bet you could get him to sign for 5/$175 if you don't like the 8 years part.

[southsider2k5]

I bet you could get him to sign for 5/$175 if you don't like the 8 years part.

 

$35 million a year? Still Ca-No.

[Chicago White Sox]

They may not be a 90 loss team, but I'd be surprised if they were a .500 team. I mean, are you really happy with 76-86?

 

I disagree that Cano wouldn't sell tickets, but he doesn't do enough to make the Sox competitive.

 

---

 

This is not the year to spend. It's not a free agent market that lines up well with the Sox weaknesses (other than Abreu), and they'll have more to spend next season. Dunn and Lindstrom are free agents who almost certainly won't be brought back, which frees up $19 mill. There are others - De Aza, Beckham, Flowers, Keppinger, Ramirez - who could be traded or non-tendered, which would free up money or commitments to spend money in the future.

 

The team is not going to be very good this year, but there have been significant steps taken in the past 5 months to set the foundation for a team that can win for a long time. I feel Hahn has done a wonderful job thus far as GM and would give him an A.

Have you looked at next year's free agent market? What exactly are you going to spend your money on then that makes your team better than with Cano? With teams locking up their star players earlier and earlier, the quality of free agents is starting to dwindle.

 

Also, I've asked this question numerous times, but what exactly is going to change between now and next offseason that will suddenly vault us into a competitive team? Again, the free market sucks next year. We don't have any elite prospects that will be ready to contribute by opening day 2015. We do have some interesting prospects that might be able to be part of the core in guys like Semien, Micah Johnson, & Thompson, but those guys are unlikely to be game changers. We'll need at least one legit middle of the lineup, preferably left-handed, to get this offense where it needs to be. If you wait to next season, it's going to cost you your limited talent to acquire said player, which seems counter productive to me.

 

The benefit of Cano is he only costs of money, which we should have a surplus of starting next offseason. Hold on to all of your young talent and continue to build around a strong young pitching staff and a 3-4-5 of Abreu-Cano-Garcia. You'll improve your chances to win right now without jeapordize the future. Obviously this is all dependent on a Cano deal that isn't too crazy in years.

[elrockinMT]

Cano wouldn't sell a single ticket. He's a luxury the Sox can't afford.

 

The price for even one big name free agent is just plain crazy. Folks wanted Ellsbury and he signed for $20 plus million a year with the Yanks? He isn't worth that much. I am sure the fans will now clamor for Granderson. What might he command in salary? There are good players available for smaller amounts of money. But, Konerko just freed up like $10M with his signing

[witesoxfan]

Have you looked at next year's free agent market? What exactly are you going to spend your money on then that makes your team better than with Cano? With teams locking up their star players earlier and earlier, the quality of free agents is starting to dwindle.

 

Also, I've asked this question numerous times, but what exactly is going to change between now and next offseason that will suddenly vault us into a competitive team? Again, the free market sucks next year. We don't have any elite prospects that will be ready to contribute by opening day 2015. We do have some interesting prospects that might be able to be part of the core in guys like Semien, Micah Johnson, & Thompson, but those guys are unlikely to be game changers. We'll need at least one legit middle of the lineup, preferably left-handed, to get this offense where it needs to be. If you wait to next season, it's going to cost you your limited talent to acquire said player, which seems counter productive to me.

 

The benefit of Cano is he only costs of money, which we should have a surplus of starting next offseason. Hold on to all of your young talent and continue to build around a strong young pitching staff and a 3-4-5 of Abreu-Cano-Garcia. You'll improve your chances to win right now without jeapordize the future. Obviously this is all dependent on a Cano deal that isn't too crazy in years.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015...ree-agents.html

 

Yes, it'll be weaker than it's been in year's past, and a lot of these guys will re-sign with their current teams, but the 3B market is better next year, as of this moment, and the SS and SP markets look solid too.

 

But that's all beside the point - the Sox still have Dunn, who people feel received the worst deal in team history. Why commit so much of your payroll to 1 player? What's keeping Cano from following a similar career path to Jose Vidro? They were very similar players - good to very good averages, decent power, respectable defense - and then Vidro lost the ability to hit for power and that took away from his average too. He was no longer a good defender, and he suddenly became a rather useless player. What's keeping Cano from turning into a 1-2 WAR players 2-3 years into this 7-8 years, $25 mill a year contract?

 

The Sox are reportedly already close to their max budget. Spending that puts them over, which removes from their future ability to spend in the future, which limits or inhibits them from fixing holes that they did not foresee appearing. It's just not the right thing for a rebuilding team.

 

Say you don't sign Cano. Say that Beckham does begin producing this year or Semien turns out to be for real - either of them puts up .280/.350/.450. If you sign Cano, you then either have to trade them for another piece or move them to 3B, where they are less valuable than they would be at 2B. That's not a bad thing, but you can spend more efficiently and perhaps try to acquire a guy like Headley, Zimmerman, Wright, or whoever. And then say Avisail Garcia does not develop like the Sox want but instead is more of a .270/.330/.370 guy. You can get by with a guy like that, but if an upgrade is available, and you have these other guys who can be counted on to be good for you at 2B, why not upgrade RF at that point?

 

Basically, if you are in a rebuilding phase and your team is not very good, there is little marginal benefit to the added wins that a guy like Cano will provide for the team. He's going to either cost $30-35 mill a year on a short term deal, or he's going to be there for 7-8 years. You don't know what your future weaknesses will be, nor do you have any idea what potential areas will develop as strengths. If they come out this year, find out they have 3-5 really good starters, and one of the areas of weakness is 2B, then I would have had no problem adding a guy like Cano. As is, I just don't think it's an efficient nor wise way to spend money.

[witesoxfan]

The price for even one big name free agent is just plain crazy. Folks wanted Ellsbury and he signed for $20 plus million a year with the Yanks? He isn't worth that much. I am sure the fans will now clamor for Granderson. What might he command in salary? There are good players available for smaller amounts of money. But, Konerko just freed up like $10M with his signing

 

#1 - Ellsbury is absolutely worth $20+ million a year because if the Yankees hadn't given it to him, someone else would have. Probably Detroit.

#2 - The fans are generally not clamoring for Granderson. He's going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 million per year.

#3 - Your Konerko logic is backwards. He did not free up $10 million with his signing, he added $1.5 million to the payroll. The Sox merely owed him $1 mill next year (and each year for the next 7-8 years)

[soxfan-kwman]

It would be a good thing. A lot of merchandise sold after Beyonce & Jay Z start supporting the sox. Maybe it could really get the Sox brand the pick up we've been looking for.

 

First we get a catcher. Then move Beckham back to third & get rid of Dunn. Could make the Sox legit contenders. Cano is an everyday player & a super star.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/02/2015...ree-agents.html

 

Yes, it'll be weaker than it's been in year's past, and a lot of these guys will re-sign with their current teams, but the 3B market is better next year, as of this moment, and the SS and SP markets look solid too.

 

But that's all beside the point - the Sox still have Dunn, who people feel received the worst deal in team history. Why commit so much of your payroll to 1 player? What's keeping Cano from following a similar career path to Jose Vidro? They were very similar players - good to very good averages, decent power, respectable defense - and then Vidro lost the ability to hit for power and that took away from his average too. He was no longer a good defender, and he suddenly became a rather useless player. What's keeping Cano from turning into a 1-2 WAR players 2-3 years into this 7-8 years, $25 mill a year contract?

 

The Sox are reportedly already close to their max budget. Spending that puts them over, which removes from their future ability to spend in the future, which limits or inhibits them from fixing holes that they did not foresee appearing. It's just not the right thing for a rebuilding team.

 

Say you don't sign Cano. Say that Beckham does begin producing this year or Semien turns out to be for real - either of them puts up .280/.350/.450. If you sign Cano, you then either have to trade them for another piece or move them to 3B, where they are less valuable than they would be at 2B. That's not a bad thing, but you can spend more efficiently and perhaps try to acquire a guy like Headley, Zimmerman, Wright, or whoever. And then say Avisail Garcia does not develop like the Sox want but instead is more of a .270/.330/.370 guy. You can get by with a guy like that, but if an upgrade is available, and you have these other guys who can be counted on to be good for you at 2B, why not upgrade RF at that point?

 

Basically, if you are in a rebuilding phase and your team is not very good, there is little marginal benefit to the added wins that a guy like Cano will provide for the team. He's going to either cost $30-35 mill a year on a short term deal, or he's going to be there for 7-8 years. You don't know what your future weaknesses will be, nor do you have any idea what potential areas will develop as strengths. If they come out this year, find out they have 3-5 really good starters, and one of the areas of weakness is 2B, then I would have had no problem adding a guy like Cano. As is, I just don't think it's an efficient nor wise way to spend money.

Then blow this team up. Like I said, we really have no elite propsects in our system unless Hawkins figures some s*** out and he's still a couple years away best case scenario. Therefore, this team isn't going to be able to develop the impact bat(s) it needs to be competitive anytime soon. Wasting the cost-controlled years of our young pitching is the dumbest thing we could do right now. So either buy some offense to support them or trade them off to the highest bidders and go full rebuild. And I'm fine with 2014 being a transitional year, but I'm not sure how they plan to get signicantly better by next offseason if we don't start addressing major needs now.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

$35 million a year? Still Ca-No.

 

Off-topic, but some writer asked the question on Twitter, "If Cano may get close to $30M a year, what kind of deal would Mike Trout get if he was a FA today".

 

I replied that even if you got Mike Trout for 10 yrs/$350M, you would still be getting an incredible discount. He's been worth $100M over the past 2 years! He's insanely good.

[witesoxfan]

Then blow this team up. Like I said, we really have no elite propsects in our system unless Hawkins figures some s*** out and he's still a couple years away best case scenario. Therefore, this team isn't going to be able to develop the impact bat(s) it needs to be competitive anytime soon. Wasting the cost-controlled years of our young pitching is the dumbest thing we could do right now. So either buy some offense to support them or trade them off to the highest bidders and go full rebuild. And I'm fine with 2014 being a transitional year, but I'm not sure how they plan to get signicantly better by next offseason if we don't start addressing major needs now.

 

For the most part, they have. The only two players I can really think of that would have any real value on the trade market are Ramirez and Lindstrom that are not young, cost controlled players are. Beckham and De Aza can be traded or non-tendered, Danks, Keppinger and Dunn have no real value, and Viciedo is still young enough and valueless that there's no harm in giving him another year. Honestly, what's left after that? There's no need to deal Sale because the Sox still have him under team control for a long, long time. You can look to move or swap Quintana and Santiago, but there's no rush unless a great deal comes along.

[southsider2k5]

Off-topic, but some writer asked the question on Twitter, "If Cano may get close to $30M a year, what kind of deal would Mike Trout get if he was a FA today".

 

I replied that even if you got Mike Trout for 10 yrs/$350M, you would still be getting an incredible discount. He's been worth $100M over the past 2 years! He's insanely good.

 

I could make a legitimate case for Trout as maybe a $500 million player based on what players are getting now and the insanity that would surround a guy who is that good of a hitter, fielder, basestealer, and is 22 year old.

[greg775]

They may not be a 90 loss team, but I'd be surprised if they were a .500 team. I mean, are you really happy with 76-86?

 

I disagree that Cano wouldn't sell tickets, but he doesn't do enough to make the Sox competitive.

 

---

 

This is not the year to spend. It's not a free agent market that lines up well with the Sox weaknesses (other than Abreu), and they'll have more to spend next season. Dunn and Lindstrom are free agents who almost certainly won't be brought back, which frees up $19 mill. There are others - De Aza, Beckham, Flowers, Keppinger, Ramirez - who could be traded or non-tendered, which would free up money or commitments to spend money in the future.

 

The team is not going to be very good this year, but there have been significant steps taken in the past 5 months to set the foundation for a team that can win for a long time. I feel Hahn has done a wonderful job thus far as GM and would give him an A.

 

The Sox need some stars as the second team in the Second City. Even Bill Veeck who had no money, knew that. Hopefully Garcia or Tank can be those guys but I'm not hopeful because they have no plate discipline at all. Sale is a star; that's a good start. But we need an everyday star or two. The Sox gave it a shot with Dunn but he didn't work out. Major bust. Konerko was a star a long time, but nationally nobody knew who he was except teams in our division whom he murdered.

Bring me some stars!!!

[caulfield12]

For the most part, they have. The only two players I can really think of that would have any real value on the trade market are Ramirez and Lindstrom that are not young, cost controlled players are. Beckham and De Aza can be traded or non-tendered, Danks, Keppinger and Dunn have no real value, and Viciedo is still young enough and valueless that there's no harm in giving him another year. Honestly, what's left after that? There's no need to deal Sale because the Sox still have him under team control for a long, long time. You can look to move or swap Quintana and Santiago, but there's no rush unless a great deal comes along.

 

 

Don't you think they would have traded Lindstrom and then tried to bring him back again if he had a lot of value on the market?

[witesoxfan]

The Sox need some stars as the second team in the Second City. Even Bill Veeck who had no money, knew that. Hopefully Garcia or Tank can be those guys but I'm not hopeful because they have no plate discipline at all. Sale is a star; that's a good start. But we need an everyday star or two. The Sox gave it a shot with Dunn but he didn't work out. Major bust. Konerko was a star a long time, but nationally nobody knew who he was except teams in our division whom he murdered.

Bring me some stars!!!

 

I assure you, people know who Konerko was. Guys who hit .280 with over 40 homers for a career (or whatever it was) get recognized. He was just never a superstar type player. You don't need those players to have a good team. You just need good players.

 

Has there been a contract of more than $150 million given out to a player that the originating team didn't regret at some point in time?

[witesoxfan]

Don't you think they would have traded Lindstrom and then tried to bring him back again if he had a lot of value on the market?

 

I didn't say a lot of value - you can probably get Brandon Jacobs for him. But how could they have brought him back if the team acquiring him did so with intentions of picking up his option?

 

The team feels like a veteran presence in the bullpen is necessary, and Lindstrom has done it for a long time. Come July, he may approach the team about being dealt to a possible contender. I'm sure the team will happily oblige.

[caulfield12]

Then blow this team up. Like I said, we really have no elite propsects in our system unless Hawkins figures some s*** out and he's still a couple years away best case scenario. Therefore, this team isn't going to be able to develop the impact bat(s) it needs to be competitive anytime soon. Wasting the cost-controlled years of our young pitching is the dumbest thing we could do right now. So either buy some offense to support them or trade them off to the highest bidders and go full rebuild. And I'm fine with 2014 being a transitional year, but I'm not sure how they plan to get signicantly better by next offseason if we don't start addressing major needs now.

 

 

One of the reasons the Yankees are shying away from Cano is that they don't view him as a player with the same marquee value/puts butts in the seat superstar in the same way as a Jeter or even Alex Rodriguez.

 

Is it fair to judge that impact based on what happened with the Yankees last season in the absence of those two, in terms of diminished revenue and fewer tickets sold?

 

Maybe.

 

But Cano's in that second tier of superstars that would be the type of player that the White Sox really can't affor to add unless they get to the point where they're just 2-3 players away and they know exactly which positions they need to upgrade.

 

Right now, betting fans would put money on Abreu and Avisail Garcia as the most likely players from the Opening Day 2014 roster to be there again in 2015.

 

Who would be next in likelihood? Probably Viciedo, and that's VERY iffy right now.

 

So you're looking at replacing CF, DH, 3B, SS, 2B and catcher, once again, with the way things look now.

 

Time and time again it has been proven that it's better almost every time when you have a chance to allocate $175 million over, let's say, 5 players....or just one, that the better choice is to sign 5 second tier guys.

 

 

2005 White Sox with AJ, Dye, Hermanson, Iguchi, El Duque (actually, I think he was the most expensive at the time, or possibly JD) and also adding Pods is basically the equivalent of signing Cano.

 

Now some would argue that this is the Royals Way.

 

It's the Royals Way because they usually pick the wrong veteran players.

 

You can argue that the Red Sox have a much better core...but they did something similar when they added Uehara, Napoli (got a little lucky with the whole physical thing going sideways), Victorino, Gomes and Stephen Drew.

 

That's another combination of players at the time that cost well under ONE Robinson Cano, a player whose skills will be deteriorating soon, if they haven't already.

 

If Cano was 26-27 like Abreu, you could at least PONDER it. But not at age 30 or 31.

[Leonard Zelig]

Where would he play?

[caulfield12]

I didn't say a lot of value - you can probably get Brandon Jacobs for him. But how could they have brought him back if the team acquiring him did so with intentions of picking up his option?

 

The team feels like a veteran presence in the bullpen is necessary, and Lindstrom has done it for a long time. Come July, he may approach the team about being dealt to a possible contender. I'm sure the team will happily oblige.

 

 

I just don't think it matters all that much...heck, Omogrosso in 2012 was probably better than Lindstrom last season.

 

That's where you get into this argument about veteran guys like Lindstrom or Konerko taking time from other players in the organization.

 

It's a Catch-22. Is there more value in his "veteran presence" or being able to trade him at the deadline...or giving more opportunities in that 7th inning role to a Daniel Webb?

 

Is Leury Garcia going to get screwed over by the Konerko move...or is it better for him to be playing everyday at Charlotte with Semien?

 

If there's any place on the roster that's BEGGING for veteran leadership, it's at catcher, where we have NOBODY that can even make a claim on the position in AA or AAA. I would rather spend $4-5 million there any day of the week than on a middle reliever.

 

2012 showed that could still succeed without a ton of veterans contributing in the bullpen, other than Jesse Crain. For all intents and purposes, Matt Thornton was already a shade of his former self by then and they still did just fine for the majority of the season with about 10 rookies filling roles down there.

Edited December 4, 2013 by caulfield12