With Abreu Signing; Konerko Not Out

[LittleHurt05]

C'mon man. If you look at it through the casual fan's eye it makes sense. The casual fan absolutely hates Dunn with a passion. They don't say "Oh 30 hrs at the end of the year, nice." You always hear something like "that motherf***er strikes out or fails every time I see him bat" or "why the f*** can't he get over his self-quoted 'stupid, stubborn ways' and learn to hit the baseball away from the shift."

 

This is the casual fan. Not my opinion but what you hear on the streets, at the game, at backyard bbqs, playing bags etc.

 

How can you pretend this line of thinking isn't everywhere in Chicago? It doesn't make sense on any level? That's ludicrous man when you know damn well the city generally despises him more than any Sox I can think of in recent memory. I'd even try to argue Dunn's presence results in tickets not being sold.

 

year by year I swear I lose more and more respect for the Sox fanbase.

[Jake]

On point number 1, you are likely going to have to pick up $10 million and take nothing in return. If you wait until July 31st to do that (or August 30th, neither matters), you are doing essentially the same thing but at least maintain the possibility that you can trade him and pick up a young, talented piece. You aren't trading Konerko.

 

On number 2, Konerko is still a more talented player than Dunn. Yes, he's probably going to be a poor player, but I think the odds of Konerko putting up an .825 OPS far outweigh the odds that Dunn will do so.

 

Konerko is not a more talented player than Dunn, not anymore. The only baseball activity that he can fathomably do better is hit left-handed pitchers. By the time Konerko would take the field again, it will have been just under two years since he has posted an .825 OPS over just a single month. He will be 38 years old. I don't know why any person would have confidence that he could do that.

 

Dunn is no cinch either since he is prone to alternate between .900+ and <.600 ops months but he demonstrated far more ability to do that kind of thing for quite a while now.>

 

I like these graphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?p...amp;players=319

 

By age and by recent history, Dunn seems like the better bet. Pair that with the fact that our middle of the order has Abreu (RHH), Avisail (RHH), and Viciedo (RHH) and Dunn will undeniably make us better.

 

That doesn't mean the "take Konerko for better draft pick" argument makes sense. That's stupid. If you want to do badly to get a draft pick, you don't do it with a 38-year-old with little chance to do well and no desire to play anywhere else. You pick your random young guy and stick him there (which could be anyone, since it is DH - it would make more sense to give Jordan Danks at-bats via that opening in the lineup than it would Konerko).

[Jake]

year by year I swear I lose more and more respect for the Sox fanbase.

 

I think they're coming around to getting rid of PK. My articles on Yahoo attract the absolute lowest of the low when it comes to commenters, oftentimes citing the departure of Mark Buehrle as evidence of what's wrong with the franchise. I wrote an article about our need to let go of PK and there was a great deal of agreement among the comments, especially compared to what I expected.

 

On the other hand, one of the top voted comments is someone saying that this is all Jeff Samardzija's fault...so who knows

[LittleHurt05]

I think they're coming around to getting rid of PK. My articles on Yahoo attract the absolute lowest of the low when it comes to commenters, oftentimes citing the departure of Mark Buehrle as evidence of what's wrong with the franchise. I wrote an article about our need to let go of PK and there was a great deal of agreement among the comments, especially compared to what I expected.

 

On the other hand, one of the top voted comments is someone saying that this is all Jeff Samardzija's fault...so who knows

 

Like I was saying about the fanbase...

[greg775]

C'mon man. If you look at it through the casual fan's eye it makes sense. The casual fan absolutely hates Dunn with a passion. They don't say "Oh 30 hrs at the end of the year, nice." You always hear something like "that motherf***er strikes out or fails every time I see him bat" or "why the f*** can't he get over his self-quoted 'stupid, stubborn ways' and learn to hit the baseball away from the shift."

 

This is the casual fan. Not my opinion but what you hear on the streets, at the game, at backyard bbqs, playing bags etc.

 

How can you pretend this line of thinking isn't everywhere in Chicago? It doesn't make sense on any level? That's ludicrous man when you know damn well the city generally despises him more than any Sox I can think of in recent memory. I'd even try to argue Dunn's presence results in tickets not being sold.

 

That's how I feel. I 'despise' Dunn the player, everything about him. Not Dunn the person. I like his interviews. As far as ability, I'd much rather have Paulie and Abreu this year than Dunn and Abreu. To me, Dunn signifies striking out and losing.

[Balta1701]

That's how I feel. I 'despise' Dunn the player, everything about him. Not Dunn the person. I like his interviews. As far as ability, I'd much rather have Paulie and Abreu this year than Dunn and Abreu. To me, Dunn signifies striking out and losing.

Paul Konerko was the captain of the 2013 White Sox and supposed to be one of their leaders. He signifies a total failure as much as anyone not named Robin Ventura.

[greg775]

Paul Konerko was the captain of the 2013 White Sox and supposed to be one of their leaders. He signifies a total failure as much as anyone not named Robin Ventura.

 

I just don't see how anybody could be anything but dismayed at having Dunn on the team. At least Paulie has a history of excellence. Same with Robin as much as I detest him as a manager. Dunn on the other hand has sort of trainwrecked this franchise cause of his salary and performance IMO.

[Balta1701]

I just don't see how anybody could be anything but dismayed at having Dunn on the team. At least Paulie has a history of excellence. Same with Robin as much as I detest him as a manager. Dunn on the other hand has sort of trainwrecked this franchise cause of his salary and performance IMO.

I don't see how anyone could be anything but dismayed at having Konerko on the team. Paulie's history of excellence ended nearly 2 years ago and he hasn't even been adequate since then. His failure last year was the single biggest part of the trainwreck that was the white sox offense and clearly his work as captian was completely inadequate, based on the 2013 white sox's status as the most unfocused, unprepared, uninterested team I've ever watched.

[Eminor3rd]

I just don't see how anybody could be anything but dismayed at having Dunn on the team. At least Paulie has a history of excellence. Same with Robin as much as I detest him as a manager. Dunn on the other hand has sort of trainwrecked this franchise cause of his salary and performance IMO.

 

We all like Paulie way more than Dunn, but the fact is that the current version of Dunn is a more productive player than the current version of Paulie. So if you want to do everything you can to win, you have to choose Dunn. If you'd still rather have Konerko, that's fine, but know that you're choosing to make the team worse next year based on the information we have now.

[TaylorStSox]

Has Konerko ever been more talented than Dunn? Seriously.

[Dick Allen]

Has Konerko ever been more talented than Dunn? Seriously.

He has been a better player.

[TaylorStSox]

He has been a better player.

Dunn has a higher OPS, more HR's and BB's. He'll probably end up with more RBI's and a higher OBP.

[Jake]

Dunn's always been a better hitter, but Dunn has pretty much always badly harmed his value on defense in a way unlike no other player ever, especially when he was playing OF

[TaylorStSox]

Dunn's always been a better hitter, but Dunn has pretty much always badly harmed his value on defense in a way unlike no other player ever, especially when he was playing OF

 

It's not like Konerko has really ever been a good defender. We've been fed that narrative for years, but that doesn't make it true. If Dunn played his career in the AL, it would have been different.

[Eminor3rd]

Interesting comparison: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=242,319

 

LOL, also: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=319,242,255

Edited November 19, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[LittleHurt05]

Dunn at a 162 game average: 38 HR 96 RBI .238/.366/.495

 

Konerko at a 162 game average: 31 HR 99 RBI .281/.356/.491

 

Differences: Dunn bursted on the scene as a 21 year old. Konerko sucked in his first ~400 ABs.

 

Konerko signed a 3yr/39mil contract for his 35-37 seasons.

 

Dunn will be a FA next year looking for a contract for his 35 year old season. Do you think he'll get a a 3 year contract?

 

Konerko has much better longevity and it's not debatable. Dunn is arguably better in his best years.

 

And Konerko was one of the worst players in all of baseball for the entire second half of that contract.

[TaylorStSox]

Dunn at a 162 game average: 38 HR 96 RBI .238/.366/.495

 

Konerko at a 162 game average: 31 HR 99 RBI .281/.356/.491

 

Differences: Dunn bursted on the scene as a 21 year old. Konerko sucked in his first ~400 ABs.

 

Konerko signed a 3yr/39mil contract for his 35-37 seasons.

 

Dunn will be a FA next year looking for a contract for his 35 year old season. Do you think he'll get a a 3 year contract?

 

Konerko has much better longevity and it's not debatable. Dunn is arguably better in his best years.

How can you say Konerko has more longevity? Dunn is 4 years younger. We don't know yet. Konerko stopped producing at 35. The book on Dunn has yet to be written.

 

Hell, in 20 years, Dunn might be viewed as the best clean power hitter of his generation.

[Dick Allen]

Beside the point. Konerko after his 34 year old season put himself in position to get paid and get paid well. We will not be able to say that about Dunn next offseason.

 

Basically Konerko got a bunch of injuries and crashed during his 36 year old season. Dunn has a had huge a dip following his 30 year old season.

And depending on if Paulie plays anymore, he has only made $15 million more than Dunn after 2014.

[Dick Allen]

How can you say Konerko has more longevity? Dunn is 4 years younger. We don't know yet. Konerko stopped producing at 35. The book on Dunn has yet to be written.

 

Hell, in 20 years, Dunn might be viewed as the best clean power hitter of his generation.

He pales in comparison to Jim Thome.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Interesting comparison: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=242,319

 

LOL, also: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=319,242,255

 

Seeing things like that just reaffirm how amazing of a hitter Frank Thomas was. To accumulate the WAR that he did despite have negative fielding and base running levels is quite impressive.

[TaylorStSox]

He pales in comparison to Jim Thome.

I'm not sure I'd put them in the same generation. Thome played at a time when the ball was wound up like a golf ball. Their careers overlap, but different generations.

[Balta1701]

Paulie's major league clock started in '97 and Dunn's started in '01. Paulie also turned down better offers to stick with Sox where Dunn went where the money was.

Again, this is only barely true. The Sox came forwards with comparable offers to better offers than he got both times. The Sox were a couple million below the Os/Angels in 06 but things became pretty comparable when you factored in the tax rates at the time.

[witesoxfan]

Paulie's major league clock started in '97 and Dunn's started in '01. Paulie also turned down better offers to stick with Sox where Dunn went where the money was.

 

To show how much contract figures changed:

 

Dunn's last year of his rookie contract: 13.5 million

Konerko's last year of his rookie contract: 8.75 million

 

This is said quite often, but I really don't believe this is the case. The 3 teams that have been interested in him have been LAA, Baltimore, and Arizona, and I really don't think he's ever really gotten a better offer from anyone else.

[Balta1701]

2010: http://baltimoresportsreport.com/os-make-s...erko-10166.html

 

I thought the Angels offered more in '05 as well.

 

Either way, the point remains. You cited Konerko only made 15 million more than Dunn but if he takes the best contract available both times that's probably 5-10 million. Funny you say the numbers aren't a big deal and then site taxes.

That article says the O's offer was $4 million more and that they made a "Significant offer" to him in 2010. A "Significant offer" could have been 3/$35 and the White Sox could have offered him that $4 million then.

 

(And I didn't cite Konerko making more than Dunn, that was someone else, I just hate the "Konerko turned down more money to stay here meme).

[Y2Jimmy0]

Has Konerko ever been more talented than Dunn? Seriously.

 

 

I am glad someone else said it. To answer your question: No. Dunn has always been the more productive player. I understand why White Sox fans don't like Dunn but he was one of the most consistent players in the game for like an 8 year stretch before joining the Sox.