With Abreu Signing; Konerko Not Out

[Balta1701]

Without a doubt this has JR's move. He adores PK like a son.

"Those who can't....coach".

[LittleHurt05]

You are wrong. Look at the numbers more closely. He had a .973 OPS in games he played where a LH started. Not a .973 OPS vs. LH starters.

 

Good catch. That's a kind of a weird for split for B-R to use. It's still interesting that his OPS is that high in those games, I can't imagine he faces that many right-handed relievers.

[Heads22]

I'd hate to have this move keep us from winning a World Series.

[witesoxfan]

It's the 25th man on the roster spot. For the saberguys, that's generally a replacement level player anyway. A young player would be better off playing every day in Charlotte.It will tie Ventura's hands a little bit, but in the grand scheme of things, it won't cost the Sox wins. If Paulie wants to play for the Sox, it's the right thing to do. I still think he isn't coming back.

 

I agree with everything in this post. I'm sure it's an incredibly nominal offer ($1-3 mill, something that is not going to hamstring the budget), and they'd just run with an 11 man pitching staff. It'll be primarily young guys anyways, so there will be options and what not used and guys will be swapped out when an extra arm is needed.

 

You run with Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Veal, and Leesman out of the bullpen and you have a swing guy in Leesman who can go multiple innings or one guy at a time. You have your two lefties. What more do you really need (other than better pitchers, of course)?

[hogan873]

You are wrong. Look at the numbers more closely. He had a .973 OPS in games he played where a LH started. Not a .973 OPS vs. LH starters.

You're right. I was just looking at the vs. LH starters stat in response to an earlier post. His .681 OPS against LH pitching is a true representation of how he hit LH pitching. Plus, he only had 142 plate appearances against LH pitching vs. 465 PA against PH pitching.

 

I wonder, though, why his OPS was so much higher in games where a LH pitcher started.

[hogan873]

It's the 25th man on the roster spot. For the saberguys, that's generally a replacement level player anyway. A young player would be better off playing every day in Charlotte.It will tie Ventura's hands a little bit, but in the grand scheme of things, it won't cost the Sox wins. If Paulie wants to play for the Sox, it's the right thing to do. I still think he isn't coming back.

I agree. And if injuries attributed to him dismal performance and he's healthy next year, maybe having him and Dunn split some time will improve the production from the DH spot. Maybe...

 

I'd be mildly surprised if he comes back, though.

[Balta1701]

I agree. And if injuries attributed to him dismal performance and he's healthy next year, maybe having him and Dunn split some time will improve the production from the DH spot. Maybe...

 

I'd be mildly surprised if he comes back, though.

Paul Konerko had 76 games at 1b last year and 50 games at DH. .660 OPS at 1b, .682 OPS at DH.

 

Adam Dunn played 70 games at 1b, 74 at DH. .888 OPS when he played 1b, .655 OPS at DH.

[hogan873]

Paul Konerko had 76 games at 1b last year and 50 games at DH. .660 OPS at 1b, .682 OPS at DH.

 

Adam Dunn played 70 games at 1b, 74 at DH. .888 OPS when he played 1b, .655 OPS at DH.

Your point being...

[Chicago White Sox]

I agree with everything in this post. I'm sure it's an incredibly nominal offer ($1-3 mill, something that is not going to hamstring the budget), and they'd just run with an 11 man pitching staff. It'll be primarily young guys anyways, so there will be options and what not used and guys will be swapped out when an extra arm is needed.

 

You run with Reed, Jones, Lindstrom, Webb, Veal, and Leesman out of the bullpen and you have a swing guy in Leesman who can go multiple innings or one guy at a time. You have your two lefties. What more do you really need (other than better pitchers, of course)?

What's the point of bringing him back though? His only value at this point comes as the weak half of a DH platoon. Is that really worth a roster spot? And what if Robin decides to give Konerko more starts than that and ends up cutting into Abreu's playing time? Unfortunately, I could totally see that happening and IMO that would be bad for Abreu's development.

 

Also, we can all try to minimize the percieved value of the 25th man, but there is a reason even contenders take advantage of expanded rosters come September. The value of having an extra arm in your pen goes well beyond the WAR he provides. When Santiago has one of his 5 inning starts or the team goes into extras, it's real nice to have a pitcher that can simply eat innings and protect the rest of the staff. IMO, it's much harder to have a designated long-guy with a six man pen. If your starters can go consistently deep then maybe it's not a problem, but I don't think we're there yet.

[witesoxfan]

What's the point of bringing him back though? His only value at this point comes as the weak half of a DH platoon. Is that really worth a roster spot? And what if Robin decides to give Konerko more starts than that and ends up cutting into Abreu's playing time? Unfortunately, I could totally see that happening and IMO that would be bad for Abreu's development.

 

Also, we can all try to minimize the percieved value of the 25th man, but there is a reason even contenders take advantage of expanded rosters come September. The value of having an extra arm in your pen goes well beyond the WAR he provides. When Santiago has one of his 5 inning starts or the team goes into extras, it's real nice to have a pitcher that can simply eat innings and protect the rest of the staff. IMO, it's much harder to have a designated long-guy with a six man pen. If your starters can go consistently deep then maybe it's not a problem, but I don't think we're there yet.

 

Because ultimately, I don't think it makes a big difference. I think they'll be able to shuffle pitchers around and get guys in when necessary.

 

I still don't think Konerko is going to play next year. I think he'll look for a starting job, find nothing, and realize there isn't a lot for him to do in Chicago other than sit on the bench, and he'll retire and become a roving instructor or a special assistant or whatever other BS titles they put on these guys

[Dick Allen]

What's the point of bringing him back though? His only value at this point comes as the weak half of a DH platoon. Is that really worth a roster spot? And what if Robin decides to give Konerko more starts than that and ends up cutting into Abreu's playing time? Unfortunately, I could totally see that happening and IMO that would be bad for Abreu's development.

 

Also, we can all try to minimize the percieved value of the 25th man, but there is a reason even contenders take advantage of expanded rosters come September. The value of having an extra arm in your pen goes well beyond the WAR he provides. When Santiago has one of his 5 inning starts or the team goes into extras, it's real nice to have a pitcher that can simply eat innings and protect the rest of the staff. IMO, it's much harder to have a designated long-guy with a six man pen. If your starters can go consistently deep then maybe it's not a problem, but I don't think we're there yet.

The point being the White Sox treat their guys with dignity and respect. Maybe it means nothing, but it certainly doesn't hurt their reputation, which could come back to them someday, and Paulie has earned the right to make the call, and I don't think he would come back unless he thought he had something left in the tank. If Konerko came back, I don't think it would be at the expense of a pitcher, I think it would mean a guy like L. Garcia, who can play both infield and outfield makes the roster. A guy like Jordan Danks is who it costs a job. No big deal.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Harry Chappas]

Don't be surprised if Adam Dunn plays a lot more left field if Konerko were to come back.

 

Dunn is in a contract year and his ability to at least be serviceable out there could mean a lot to him and the White Sox moving forward/moving him at the deadline.

 

Viciedo can move to right from time to time, I think he played there previously, and then you have 5 guys in the mix, you put Garcia in CF and you DeAza in this mix as well.

 

See it all works out.

 

The defense may suck but it sucks already. Viciedo, Dunn, Garcia, Koneko, and Abreu has some serious thump to it.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

You're right. I was just looking at the vs. LH starters stat in response to an earlier post. His .681 OPS against LH pitching is a true representation of how he hit LH pitching. Plus, he only had 142 plate appearances against LH pitching vs. 465 PA against PH pitching.

 

I wonder, though, why his OPS was so much higher in games where a LH pitcher started.

 

Probably because they usually only started him against bad lefty starters. If it is was a good one, they went right handed

[Chicago White Sox]

The point being the White Sox treat their guys with dignity and respect. Maybe it means nothing, but it certainly doesn't hurt their reputation, which could come back to them someday, and Paulie has earned the right to make the call, and I don't think he would come back unless he thought he had something left in the tank. If Konerko came back, I don't think it would be at the expense of a pitcher, I think it would mean a guy like L. Garcia, who can play both infield and outfield makes the roster. A guy like Jordan Danks is who it costs a job. No big deal.

Come on, athletes are horrible with accepting their best days are behind them. He has the right to make that call, but so do the White Sox. If Hahn thinks Konerko is done, then loyalty should have nothing to do with it. Making bad baseball decisions for the sake of being loyal is a real bad way to run a baseball team. If Jerry wants to reward Paulie for his years of service then give him some token job in the organization that doesn't affect the 25 man roster.

[flavum]

All of this Konerko stuff is really bringing it home how frustrating it is to be a Sox fan right now.

 

The correct move is for Konerko to say goodbye on his own. If he wants to find another team that will give a part time job, more power to him. But he can't come back unless they find a way to trade Dunn, and also keep Konerko as a part time player.

[Dick Allen]

Come on, athletes are horrible with accepting their best days are behind them. He has the right to make that call, but so do the White Sox. If Hahn thinks Konerko is done, then loyalty should have nothing to do with it. Making bad baseball decisions for the sake of being loyal is a real bad way to run a baseball team. If Jerry wants to reward Paulie for his years of service then give him some token job in the organization that doesn't affect the 25 man roster.

Even taking a 2013 Konerko, it isn't a bad baseball decision having him play against LHP. His batting average was over .300. His OBP was almost .400. His OPS was over .900.

[Chicago White Sox]

Even taking a 2013 Konerko, it isn't a bad baseball decision having him play against LHP. His batting average was over .300. His OBP was almost .400. His OPS was over .900.

The problem is that was in 113 PAs. Even if he's completely healthy, he wouldn't face that much more LHP next year. I just can't argue that's worth a roster spot given that he won't help out in any other capacity.

[SoxAce]

The problem is that was in 113 PAs. Even if he's completely healthy, he wouldn't face that much more LHP next year. I just can't argue that's worth a roster spot given that he won't help out in any other capacity.

 

Not that I'm arguing pro or con for bringing him back right now, but the whole "problem is that was in 113 PAs" is a weak argument. Paulie has always mashed lefties his whole career. That's not going to change no matter how old he is. Hell, 42 year old Jason Giambi can still "somewhat" hit righties.. he sucks now, but he sucks alittle less facing them.

Edited November 13, 2013 by SoxAce

[Dick Allen]

Paulie also stated if he did play, it would be for one more season, so I really don't think the athlete hanging on not knowing when to say good bye is applicable here.

[witesoxfan]

Not that I'm arguing pro or con for bringing him back right now, but the whole "problem is that was in 113 PAs" is a weak argument. Paulie has always mashed lefties his whole career. That's not going to change no matter how old he is. Hell, 42 year old Jason Giambi can still hit righties.. he sucks now, but he sucks alittle less facing them.

 

I don't think he's saying he can't hit lefties, he's saying that justifying a roster spot for Konerko based on 113 PAs, which is about what he would get over the duration of the season, is a waste of resources for a rebuilding team. If Konerko had any other extrinsic value, there wouldn't be a discussion, but the only thing you can say he would provide is some sort of coaching, and they can just hire him to do that. I don't believe there is a limit to the number of guys you can have in your clubhouse or dugout. Instead, it would be better to have someone else take those plate appearances for value and development's sake. I can't say I disagree.

 

Really, I have no problem with Konerko coming or going. I don't believe he will come back.

[Chicago White Sox]

Not that I'm arguing pro or con for bringing him back right now, but the whole "problem is that was in 113 PAs" is a weak argument. Paulie has always mashed lefties his whole career. That's not going to change no matter how old he is. Hell, 42 year old Jason Giambi can still "somewhat" hit righties.. he sucks now, but he sucks alittle less facing them.

The point was that he'll only get limited opportunities against LHP and is that really worth using a roster spot. I've never questioned his ability to hit LHP.

[LittleHurt05]

If you re-sign him, you basically have a platoon of 3 guys at 1B & DH, none of who can play any other position. That leaves you very little flexibility in the DH spot. I like to give everyday players occasional breaks at DH. If a lefty is on the mound, Dunn can sit, and Avisial or Tank can DH get a breather.

[hogan873]

I guess one of the big questions is, if Konerko does come back, who is not on the roster? Based on who the Sox have right now, the bench would be Keppinger/Gillaspie, Flowers/Phegley, Konerko, Jordan Danks, and L. Garcia. Is that enough flexibility?

[Eminor3rd]

The fact that Leury can play both OF/IF and that Leesman can be a spot starter/mop-up/LOOGY in one allows the Sox to pull off Konerko's roster spot with a 5 man bench. It isn't ideal, but really it'll just mean more PT for those two bench guys, which probably isn't a bad thing for a developing team. It would mean Semien in AAA as the roster is constructed today, which is also fine with me.

 

I used to be really uncomfortable with this, but the more I think about it, the more I think it isn't the end of the world either way.

[Dick Allen]

The point was that he'll only get limited opportunities against LHP and is that really worth using a roster spot. I've never questioned his ability to hit LHP.

If you look at the 2012 White Sox, no non regular had as many as 170 plate appearances. It's really not a waste of a roster spot. There are better fits, and Paulie knows this. I'm thinking if he decides to come back, he's feeling well and thinks he can still play at a high level. I don't think he cares to embarrass himself and he has plenty of money. I read an article a few years ago where his dad said he still pulls money out of an ATM $20 at a time.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Dick Allen