Paul Konerko Returning to White Sox

[Balta1701]

They don't let you keep 26 guys on the roster.

Part of what you highlighted was "if we could dump Keppinger". That lets the bench he wrote actually exist, Konerko/Catcher/Danks/Garcia.

[Balta1701]

Seriously, what is the difference between having 5 guys DH as opposed to 2?

 

If you have other guys that can fill in at other positions with the 2 remaining bench spots then why is it such a big deal?

 

If we have to keep Kepp, what is the big deal about playing Beckham 10 times a year at SS?

 

If we can trade Kepp, what's wrong with a PK-Catcher-Garcia-Danks bench?

Oh, I've got one more.

 

Trading Keppinger basically makes Gillaspie a full time starter at 3b rather than a platoon player. Yeah Garcia could get some at bats there, but he's the primary backup everywhere else so Gillaspie is going to be facing most of the lefty pitchers we face.

[Dick Allen]

Oh, I've got one more.

 

Trading Keppinger basically makes Gillaspie a full time starter at 3b rather than a platoon player. Yeah Garcia could get some at bats there, but he's the primary backup everywhere else so Gillaspie is going to be facing most of the lefty pitchers we face.

WHY ARE YOU ASSUMING THE WHITE SOX OFFSEASON IS OVER?

Edited December 5, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

WHY ARE YOU ASSUMING THE WHITE SOX OFFSEASON IS OVER?

So we need to spend $2.5 million to sign Konerko, spend $9 million to get rid of Keppinger, and then spend another couple million on a super-utility guy to make our bench manageable. Or we could trade for one, giving away a player to fill that role and then adding another $500k minimal salary.

 

This is getting to be one really expensive backup DH.

[2nd_city_saint787]

The Indians had 1 guy on their roster who was useless at positions other than DH. The White Sox basically have 2. The comparison was to the Indians, so that means the White Sox have more dead space on their bench than the Indians did.

 

"If we can trade keppinger" is the problem. To move him right now we're going to have to eat >$5 million (IMO I'd guess the White Sox would actually have to eat all $9 million remaining on his deal). Why is that a good idea? Why do we need to pay that money to create a roster spot for a guy who can't play the field?

 

That bench, as you wrote it is slightly better than the one we'd be looking at if we didn't buy out Keppinger because now it actually has a lefty, but still has the flaw of 1 guy backing up 3 positions.

 

 

I guess I just don't see the harm in having 1 utility infieder, and 1 utility outfielder. Why is it a "flaw" to have 2 guys that can play 3 positions? I thought versatility was a good thing? How often does a team sit 2 infielders on the same day? Wouldn't having 1 guy suc for all 3 positions be better because he's getting more regular at bats?

[witesoxfan]

Part of what you highlighted was "if we could dump Keppinger". That lets the bench he wrote actually exist, Konerko/Catcher/Danks/Garcia.

 

Then part of the problem is that there isn't a lot of depth. On the plus side, Leury would get a lot of play. I don't know how good of a hitter he is though.

[Balta1701]

I guess I just don't see the harm in having 1 utility infieder, and 1 utility outfielder. Why is it a "flaw" to have 2 guys that can play 3 positions? I thought versatility was a good thing? How often does a team sit 2 infielders on the same day? Wouldn't having 1 guy suc for all 3 positions be better because he's getting more regular at bats?

That's tolerable although still slightly weak. The problems with it are; you have to spend $9 million on Keppinger's buyout to make it happen, and then you have Gillaspie no longer being a platoon 3b, he becomes an everyday 3b.

[Texsox]

You already have a backup 1b in Dunn. You can then fill the DH spot with one of your OFs or 3B options.

 

Yes, you have an emergency backup in Dunn. I'm suggesting the team wants a no pressure situation to protect their biggest investment. Around July when Abrue has already played his usual full season, I can see having Konerko would be a good thing. I agree with Balta there is a chance they will mismanage the situation. But in bringing Abreu up to MLB levels having the most flexibility, including him resting for a couple games, is a great tool. I see signing Paulie as being 90% about Abreu and 10% Konerko.

 

Abreu has never topped 400 abs in a season. Having him jump to 600+ and lpaying no matter what is possibly not the smartest move for the future of the franchise.

[2nd_city_saint787]

That's tolerable although still slightly weak. The problems with it are; you have to spend $9 million on Keppinger's buyout to make it happen, and then you have Gillaspie no longer being a platoon 3b, he becomes an everyday 3b.

 

Just trade for Chase Headley

 

 

[witesoxfan]

That's tolerable although still slightly weak. The problems with it are; you have to spend $9 million on Keppinger's buyout to make it happen, and then you have Gillaspie no longer being a platoon 3b, he becomes an everyday 3b.

 

The Sox aren't going to buy out either Keppinger or Dunn. I'm sure they'd pick up money to move them. You essentially go into the season with full intentions of Alexei playing every single day. I don't think it's something he really minds. If he gets hurt, Beckham or Keppinger plays SS for the rest of that game; if it appears like it's going to be a thing that keeps him out, you option a pitcher or put him on the DL and call up a shortstop. That might seriously be the best way to handle it.

[Balta1701]

Yes, you have an emergency backup in Dunn. I'm suggesting the team wants a no pressure situation to protect their biggest investment. Around July when Abrue has already played his usual full season, I can see having Konerko would be a good thing. I agree with Balta there is a chance they will mismanage the situation. But in bringing Abreu up to MLB levels having the most flexibility, including him resting for a couple games, is a great tool. I see signing Paulie as being 90% about Abreu and 10% Konerko.

 

Abreu has never topped 400 abs in a season. Having him jump to 600+ and lpaying no matter what is possibly not the smartest move for the future of the franchise.

If Jose Abreu needed rest after 400 PA's, they should still push him to 500 on the season if for no other reason than tog et him used to the position. That's ~15 games to split between Dunn and Keppinger at 1b (particularly since we still have interleague games with no DH in there).

[Dick Allen]

The Sox aren't going to buy out either Keppinger or Dunn. I'm sure they'd pick up money to move them. You essentially go into the season with full intentions of Alexei playing every single day. I don't think it's something he really minds. If he gets hurt, Beckham or Keppinger plays SS for the rest of that game; if it appears like it's going to be a thing that keeps him out, you option a pitcher or put him on the DL and call up a shortstop. That might seriously be the best way to handle it.

Yes, there probably will be a Chicago/Charlotte shuttle. It happens every year. And in the case of emergency, the 12th pitcher could always be sacrificed for a few days depending on the situation.

[Balta1701]

The Sox aren't going to buy out either Keppinger or Dunn. I'm sure they'd pick up money to move them. You essentially go into the season with full intentions of Alexei playing every single day. I don't think it's something he really minds. If he gets hurt, Beckham or Keppinger plays SS for the rest of that game; if it appears like it's going to be a thing that keeps him out, you option a pitcher or put him on the DL and call up a shortstop. That might seriously be the best way to handle it.

I agree that's probably how it will go down.

 

Now ask yourself this question...where is there use for a RH hitting PH in that scenario? Pinch hitting for De Aza and Gillaspie, and that's about it.

[Balta1701]

Yes, there probably will be a Chicago/Charlotte shuttle. It happens every year. And in the case of emergency, the 12th pitcher could always be sacrificed for a few days depending on the situation.

I'm pretty sure they've more commonly wound up with a 13 man rotation over teh last few years than an 11 man rotation.

[witesoxfan]

I agree that's probably how it will go down.

 

Now ask yourself this question...where is there use for a RH hitting PH in that scenario? Pinch hitting for De Aza and Gillaspie, and that's about it.

 

Depending on how they're hitting, I'd rather have Konerko up than Phegley, Flowers, Viciedo, Beckham, and Dunn (versus lefties). There are a few spots where he's ok pinch hitting.

 

May as well add Keppinger versus a righty unless you need a grounder to the right side, and Danks versus lefties too.

Edited December 5, 2013 by witesoxfan

[Dick Allen]

I'm pretty sure they've more commonly wound up with a 13 man rotation over teh last few years than an 11 man rotation.

There will be plenty of guys you and I and everyone else would hope they send to Charlotte at some point in 2014. They could get by with 11 pitchers for a few days if they had to. I don't think it would kill the pennant chase.

[Balta1701]

Depending on how they're hitting, I'd rather have Konerko up than Phegley, Flowers, Viciedo, Beckham, and Dunn (versus lefties). There are a few spots where he's ok pinch hitting.

 

May as well add Keppinger versus a righty unless you need a grounder to the right side, and Danks versus lefties too.

Just to stress though...in all of these situations other than Phing for the lefties, by having our PH guy be a righty, we're sacrificing any shot at having a positive matchup. So in all those cases, it's Konerko versus a righty.

 

Paul Konerko's OPS against righties last year was worse than every single one of them except Phegley. In some cases...by a lot.

[Vance Law]

Just to stress though...in all of these situations other than Phing for the lefties, by having our PH guy be a righty, we're sacrificing any shot at having a positive matchup. So in all those cases, it's Konerko versus a righty.

 

Why would Konerko be put in to pinch hit versus a righty? Why wouldn't it be Gillaspie or Danks? (Or Loboton?)

 

[Balta1701]

Why would Konerko be put in to pinch hit versus a righty? Why wouldn't it be Gillaspie or Danks? (Or Loboton?)

Exactly.

 

Which leads to the key question...why is this guy taking up a spot on the bench when he's not even the right option to PH for most of our lineup?

[witesoxfan]

Why would Konerko be put in to pinch hit versus a righty? Why wouldn't it be Gillaspie or Danks? (Or Loboton?)

 

They could, but ultimately it would depend on who is available. Say Verlander started, which puts Dunn, Gillaspie, and Danks in the lineup with Phegley catching. The Sox are down 1. Nathan is pitching with 2 outs in the 9th, and Phegley's up. Who do you want hitting in that scenario?

 

I think there will be other, less developed and more obvious opportunities other than that too.

[LittleHurt05]

Yes, you have an emergency backup in Dunn. I'm suggesting the team wants a no pressure situation to protect their biggest investment. Around July when Abrue has already played his usual full season, I can see having Konerko would be a good thing. I agree with Balta there is a chance they will mismanage the situation. But in bringing Abreu up to MLB levels having the most flexibility, including him resting for a couple games, is a great tool. I see signing Paulie as being 90% about Abreu and 10% Konerko.

 

Abreu has never topped 400 abs in a season. Having him jump to 600+ and lpaying no matter what is possibly not the smartest move for the future of the franchise.

 

And that "emergency" backup started 51 games at 1b in 2012 & 70 games at 1b in 2013. I think he can handle backing up Abreu.

[Balta1701]

They could, but ultimately it would depend on who is available. Say Verlander started, which puts Dunn, Gillaspie, and Danks in the lineup with Phegley catching. The Sox are down 1. Nathan is pitching with 2 outs in the 9th, and Phegley's up. Who do you want hitting in that scenario?

 

I think there will be other, less developed and more obvious opportunities other than that too.

If you went by the numbers...Phegley last year is the only guy in our lineup you'd actually PH Konerko for against a righty. You'd actually be downgrading if you PH Konerko for Beckham, Viciedo, Garcia, or even Keppinger.

[witesoxfan]

If you went by the numbers...Phegley last year is the only guy in our lineup you'd actually PH Konerko for against a righty. You'd actually be downgrading if you PH Konerko for Beckham, Viciedo, Garcia, or even Keppinger.

 

I know, I saw your post earlier. While it's significant, Konerko has a career's worth of work which we can judge him by too. He may come back and be better when he sits. He may also find it hard to even hit in general when not getting regular playing time. Players typically never handle that move the same.

 

As of this writing, he is the best power bat on the White Sox bench, regardless of what side of the plate he hits from.

[greg775]

You guys aren't going to like this post. ...

Robin Ventura is a former player. As such, Robin Ventura respects near Hall of Famers like Konerko (he won't make the Hall but a damn fine career). My take to you is it's Paulie's STARTING job to lose. Look ... we go to spring training. Paulie is going to be healthy. Paulie is going to hit .310 in spring training with 6-7 home runs. Paulie Konerko will be starting first baseman. You heard it here first. Please please give me credit when this happens. It's going to happen.

 

p.s. Am I the only person on Soxtalk thrilled with his return?

[Vance Law]

Exactly.

 

Which leads to the key question...why is this guy taking up a spot on the bench when he's not even the right option to PH for most of our lineup?

 

Why did the White Sox use a roster spot for Angel Sanchez last year? Or Tyler Greene? And why were you not apoplectic about it? How much value did Ray Olmedo bring to the team in 2012 vs. how much Konerko will? Will there be a huge difference, and in Olmedo's favor?

 

If you honestly think the difference between wasting a roster spot with Sanchez or Greene or Olmedo somehow results in even 1 win more than with Paul Konerko taking the bat out of Adam Dunn's hands against lefties, then by all means keep having a huge reaction to this.