Jake Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I'm happy to deal Sale if the price is right. And no, it doesn't have to be some dick measuring contest with the other GM. It just has to make us better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) In another thread about trading Sale I looked at the 23 year gap bewteen Black Jack and Sale. In doing so I looked at the career WAR of every pitcher taken top-100 in his class during that 23 year period. Did you know that Nate Jones right now is already among the cream of the crop of that group? Nate Jones is one of the best pitchers we have drafted in the first 100 picks in over 2 decades. And people can think whatever they want about the Sox drafting low-upside McCulloghs and Broadways and stuff, but the Sox had some VERY big arms in there which didn't turn out. Jon Rauch for example has been one of best pitchers in that period that we have drafted and developed in the last 20+ years, and that guy also ranks as one of the biggest disappointments in the Sox system. There are what now, just like 30 rounds in the draft? How many international slots? We've got enough lottery tickets already. Don't need to trade the best asset we have had really since pre-arb Maggs at least (Sale has more value though I'm sure) and probably since Frank just to buy more lottery tickets. Sometimes you get diamonds in the rough, but you have elite guys you draft early who have a chance of being a frontline starter. In recent years, we've done OK when we've drafted higher, Beckham (8th), Sale (13th), and hopefully Courtney Hawkins (13th). Some don't turn out, but with guys who have already been drafted and partial developed, you have a better chance. We are REBUILDING, the only major moves we've done in the past year have been for 3-4 years down the road. If Arizona or Seattle knocks you over with a package of young players who are close to the majors, I don't see why we shouldn't consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) How would trading one pitcher off a roster of a team that lost 99 games possibly set that team back 5 years? Lets not get carried away. Sale pitches once every 5 days. I wouldn't trade him unless blown away, but all the rebuilders if they did trade him for prospects, would get their wish. The team would still be crappy, but the farm system probably goes to top 10. If the pitchers brought back by the White Sox do not develop, you are talking about a rotation of Quintana, Santiago, Danks, Johnson, and Rienzo, or whatever. They have 2 hitters they feel strongly about in the future. At that point, with the Sox having pieces that aren't that great going forward in the pitching staff, what is the point of keeping Jose Abreu? May as well trade him and maximize value. Maybe 5 years is a bit extreme, but it could just as easily set the Sox back and hurt them as it could move them foward and help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) I'm pretty sure the point was the prospects could bust and then your screwed. Right. They bust on the Major League field, not in Charlotte. They cost you seasons while you're waiting for them to turn into something, and as they cost you seasons, you maintain your "rebuilding" direction and continue to trade off the proven players you do have for more prospects while being mostly a non-factor on the free agent market because you suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:39 AM) I'm pretty sure the point was the prospects could bust and then your screwed. Sure, but set the team back 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Right. They bust on the Major League field, not in Charlotte. They cost you seasons while you're waiting for them to turn into something, and as they cost you seasons, you maintain your "rebuilding" direction and continue to trade off the proven players you do have for more prospects while being mostly a non-factor on the free agent market because you suck. Or Sale could blow out his elbow, something that some people think is inevitable and we passed on several cornerstone players and have nothing to show for it. Would that set the franchise back five years? Then we shouldn't have so much invested in one player, we need a better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) I'm happy to deal Sale if the price is right. And no, it doesn't have to be some dick measuring contest with the other GM. It just has to make us better Gave me a chuckle when I read this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 They are really talking about Sale right now on MLB Network. Rosenthal just said Zona was all over him to acquire last year at the trade deadline. Teams will be lining up if Sox even entertain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) How would trading one pitcher off a roster of a team that lost 99 games possibly set that team back 5 years? Lets not get carried away. Sale pitches once every 5 days. I wouldn't trade him unless blown away, but all the rebuilders if they did trade him for prospects, would get their wish. The team would still be crappy, but the farm system probably goes to top 10. Don't bother DA, I tried explaining this throughout "the value of Chris sale" thread. The idea was the POSSIBLE return and how a kings ransom could help this team more than one pitcher that pitches 33 games per year but some treated it like I kicked their puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:21 AM) Don't bother DA, I tried explaining this throughout "the value of Chris sale" thread. The idea was the POSSIBLE return and how a kings ransom could help this team more than one pitcher that pitches 33 games per year but some treated it like I kicked their puppy. Did you ignore the part about how historically difficult it is for your scenario to actually happen for the team trading the ace? Historically the team trading the ace almost always loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Joel Sherman @Joelsherman1 20s Exec regularly in contact with #whitesox GM Hahn says "we have asked million times about Sale and never felt they would trade him" https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Take the best offer you can get then move a guy or two for Price and ink Price to a long term deal. Hopefully at the end of the day you have Price and an A rated prospect Sale would fit into Tampa's budget as well...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:05 AM) Unless a Trout or Stanton is involved, I am not really interested. One young, proven major leaguer must be thrown into any deal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) Ding Ding Ding....it could be a massive set back and not only that but Rick Hahn would probably be fired too They lost 99 games with Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Sale to the Diamonbacks for the Diamondbacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) Take the best offer you can get then move a guy or two for Price and ink Price to a long term deal. Hopefully at the end of the day you have Price and an A rated prospect Sale would fit into Tampa's budget as well...... LMAO, you think the Rays front office would just take a guy or two for Price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:23 AM) Did you ignore the part about how historically difficult it is for your scenario to actually happen for the team trading the ace? Historically the team trading the ace almost always loses. And historically speaking there has never been an ace traded of Sale's current value. I've said throughout the other thread it would take a huge haul to trade him but its an idea I am open to. Never once have I said we HAVE to trade Sale, just be one to the idea. How many times must be stated? People read what they want I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) LMAO, you think the Rays front office would just take a guy or two for Price? Not to mention getting assets back from trading your young, great contract in Sale and trading those for an older, declining numbers wise in Price and then have to sign him for more money in a couple of years (if sox elect to keep him). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) LMAO, you think the Rays front office would just take a guy or two for Price? My point was to move Sale for a package of players, then move a portion of that package or current players for Price Sale's value is that he is young and cheap. He will net more than Price. The issue comes to the budget of the White Sox and do they want to spend money on David Price. Sale will get you more and better prospects than Price. In teh end you can have Price and some younger talent if you want to pay for it it on a Price extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:30 AM) And historically speaking there has never been an ace traded of Sale's current value. I've said throughout the other thread it would take a huge haul to trade him but its an idea I am open to. Never once have I said we HAVE to trade Sale, just be one to the idea. How many times must be stated? People read what they want I suppose. And historically when teams have gotten "major hauls", they usually do not become major hauls. Go back and look at ace trades. Also I never have said that they have to trade Sale. I have always contended that unless they are getting back a star hitter, I am not trading Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) My point was to move Sale for a package of players, then move a portion of that package or current players for Price Sale's value is that he is young and cheap. He will net more than Price. The issue comes to the budget of the White Sox and do they want to spend money on David Price. Sale will get you more and better prospects than Price. In teh end you can have Price and some younger talent if you want to pay for it it on a Price extension. At this point, Price is almost a sure thing to become a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:34 AM) And historically when teams have gotten "major hauls", they usually do not become major hauls. Go back and look at ace trades. Also I never have said that they have to trade Sale. I have always contended that unless they are getting back a star hitter, I am not trading Chris Sale. This haul would be unprecedented so let's see what might actually be offered before we say yes or no. Past history is irrelevant without knowing what AZ would cough up. Again, its about being open minded and not a man crush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 49s Diamondbacks are among the teams with the most serious trade interest in Chris Sale -- IF they would agree to part with him. A big if. Bradley, Owings, Davidson, Skaggs, Delgado anyone? I've got to tell you boys...If we clean out Arizona's system, it would completely accelerate the trajectory of our franchise. If the package included ALL of the names you mentioned above, I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 12:39 PM) I've got to tell you boys...If we clean out Arizona's system, it would completely accelerate the trajectory of our franchise. If the package included ALL of the names you mentioned above, I would make the deal in a heartbeat. Maybe or they all bust except one who becomes an average major league but nothing close to Chris. Obviously impossible to project that's why trading him is so damn risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Having previously done some research on Arizona's prospects back around the trade deadline, wasn't there some chatter about Owings and Davidson's production being a result of the league they were in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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