Sox acquire Adam Eaton from ARZ, deal Santiago, Jacobs

[DukeNukeEm]

We have a glut of LHP, this made sense even if I was a real fan of Hector's.

 

The problem is we got crap in return. Adam Eaton cant hit. I dont get it, and now were going to deal DeAza for a lottery ticket prospect. What does this net us other than a new face? I mean, unless Hahn does something super fancy (or teams somehow arent aware of ADAs sucktitude) this boils down to:

 

Solid lefty with good potential

Low caliber starting CF

 

for

 

Low-middle caliber starting CF

Mediocre prospect

 

Team didnt get better unless they see something in Eaton that indicate he will get good.

[RockRaines]

You are right. You don't get it. Eaton is a good return for a position of need.

[macsandz]

keithlaw ‏@keithlaw 1h

.@maedwilson I don't believe Avi Garcia is ready/best off starting in majors

That's ridiculous. He's full time time MLB ready.

[Reddy]

We have a glut of LHP, this made sense even if I was a real fan of Hector's.

 

The problem is we got crap in return. Adam Eaton cant hit. I dont get it, and now were going to deal DeAza for a lottery ticket prospect. What does this net us other than a new face? I mean, unless Hahn does something super fancy (or teams somehow arent aware of ADAs sucktitude) this boils down to:

 

Solid lefty with good potential

Low caliber starting CF

 

for

 

Low-middle caliber starting CF

Mediocre prospect

 

Team didnt get better unless they see something in Eaton that indicate he will get good.

 

Is there anything you do like in life?

 

Also Adam Eaton is a star. You're dead wrong. Shh.

 

[macsandz]

Rock, we aren't sure that Eaton is a legit starting cf yet. For me it's high upside for high upside with Hector having proven a little bit more at the big league level and Eaton having a potential higher value to our team.

 

Like I said, I think it's pretty fair on paper, just have to wait and see how Eaton and Hector end up turning out.

 

Eaton was on a ROY pace before injury last season. If a guy like Gardner is a quality every day CF, Eaton very likely can get it done.

[TheFutureIsNear]

We have a glut of LHP, this made sense even if I was a real fan of Hector's.

 

The problem is we got crap in return. Adam Eaton cant hit. I dont get it, and now were going to deal DeAza for a lottery ticket prospect. What does this net us other than a new face? I mean, unless Hahn does something super fancy (or teams somehow arent aware of ADAs sucktitude) this boils down to:

 

Solid lefty with good potential

Low caliber starting CF

 

for

 

Low-middle caliber starting CF

Mediocre prospect

 

Team didnt get better unless they see something in Eaton that indicate he will get good.

 

I'd love to know how you came to the brilliant conclusion that Adam Eaton can't hit. Must have been all of the extensive scouting you did on him right?

[Reddy]

.365/.441/.522 at AAA

 

 

yeah he's trash.

[Rowand44]

Eaton was on a ROY pace before injury last season. If a guy like Gardner is a quality every day CF, Eaton very likely can get it done.

Not denying that but he hasn't gotten it done at the major league level yet whether it was injury related or not.

 

I'm certainly not looking down on the trade, I just want to see what Eaton is before I get overly excited about it because I still like Hector's upside as well.

[shago]

I'm a big fan of Eaton.

^huge^ Rowand+++

[Jake]

We have a glut of LHP, this made sense even if I was a real fan of Hector's.

 

The problem is we got crap in return. Adam Eaton cant hit. I dont get it, and now were going to deal DeAza for a lottery ticket prospect. What does this net us other than a new face? I mean, unless Hahn does something super fancy (or teams somehow arent aware of ADAs sucktitude) this boils down to:

 

Solid lefty with good potential

Low caliber starting CF

 

for

 

Low-middle caliber starting CF

Mediocre prospect

 

Team didnt get better unless they see something in Eaton that indicate he will get good.

 

How do you interpret a .381/.456/.539 in AAA as a guy that you can easily declare "can't hit"? That AAA line is a 163 wRC+, meaning he was 63% more productive than that league's average, adjusting for ballpark factors. One does not simply outproduce the average PCL hitter by 63% and be a s***ty hitter, especially with no other data to the contrary.

 

He finished that season by posting a 118 wRC+ in the MLB. Then last year he misses the entire season, no spring training, and survives at the big league level by hitting at a level that would make him look like a slugger on the 2013 White Sox. This player is his bat and all scouts agree that it's his best tool. He was a top 100 prospect, something we rarely have, and a top 3 prospect in an absolutely loaded Arizona system. Even as a prospect, he was never "mediocre," at least not after his rookie ball season when people realized being 5'8" didn't stop him from pounding professional pitching.

[shago]

You are right. You don't get it. Eaton is a good return for a position of need.

This

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'll just take a wait and see approach on this one. I like that we got a CF but if it turns out he can't play it well, then we have a 4th OF at a corner position with limited power. On the plus side he has the potential to be a .300 hitter and on base machine. Hahn staying on course getting ML ready player and another LH. Eaton needs to produce right away. It's not like he's Avi and 22 yrs. old, he turned 25 4 days ago so wish him a belated happy birthday .He got a new job as starting CF and leadoff hitter for the Sox as a present.

[royoung]

Of the three teams involved, the White Sox's end of this trade probably carries the least risk, unless Eaton turns out to be a kamikaze who runs into a never-ending string of injuries. "I like what the White Sox did in this deal," said one scout. "My biggest questions are: Will Skaggs be the pitcher -- or close -- Jerry thinks he will be, and will Trumbo produce the way Kevin thinks he will? Those are the two big questions. I really don't have a lot of questions about what the White Sox got. I think Eaton will be exactly what they expect him to be."

 

 

 

 

In case you missed it, nice quotes from Jayson Stark's article wrapping up the deal.

 

 

 

[Reddy]

How do you interpret a .381/.456/.539 in AAA as a guy that you can easily declare "can't hit"? That AAA line is a 163 wRC+, meaning he was 63% more productive than that league's average, adjusting for ballpark factors. One does not simply outproduce the average PCL hitter by 63% and be a s***ty hitter, especially with no other data to the contrary.

 

He finished that season by posting a 118 wRC+ in the MLB. Then last year he misses the entire season, no spring training, and survives at the big league level by hitting at a level that would make him look like a slugger on the 2013 White Sox. This player is his bat and all scouts agree that it's his best tool. He was a top 100 prospect, something we rarely have, and a top 3 prospect in an absolutely loaded Arizona system. Even as a prospect, he was never "mediocre," at least not after his rookie ball season when people realized being 5'8" didn't stop him from pounding professional pitching.

Duke is impervious to facts. we know this.

[NorthSideSox72]

Jacobs fits in with the crowd of toolsy, flawed OF's in the Sox system, like Thompson, Mitchell, Walker. Jacobs has power and speed, his defense is suspect in CF but OK corners. He has serious contact issues, almost as bad as some of those others. But he's older with less ceiling than Thompson.

 

He was also off the 40 and theoretically Rule V eligible. Keep in mind that, on the off chance someone grabs him (which I'd put at like a 2% chance), there is likely a plan in place for different player or cash to go to AZ. That is why it hasn't been announced yet, and why he is a PTBNL.

 

For me, Jacobs is a 10-20 guy in the Sox system, closer to 20 for me, though this is all subjective. And he is in a pool of similar talent, behind an OF that just got young at the MLB level. He was pretty expendable, and his loss doesn't hurt the system much.

 

Overall for the Sox, I like the trade - but I am also not quite as high on Santiago as some others. I think he'll have issues repeating delivery and staying in the strike zone, though there is upside there to be a mid-rotation starter. More likely he is back-end. That plus Jacobs, to me, is pretty even-steven for Eaton. But as fathom and others have said, we'll know a lot more in a few years.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Should've mentioned, when I say it was an even trade for the Sox, I mean value-wise in a vacuum. It fits the Sox needs and deals from relative stengths, so even if value is even, it is an overall positive for the team.

 

[Melissa1334]

The annoying thing about that is Samardzija is the most overrated player in baseball. I bet you some team like Arizona would be stupid enough to give them a near Sale-like haul.

I don't get it. His era was almost 4 1/2 in the n.l. everyone acts like he's some ace or something. He throws hard though , so they love him. He reminds me a lot of Floyd , so inconsistent.

[Chicago White Sox]

I absolutely love Adam Eaton. Left-handed bat that can hit for average and get on base, exactly the type of bat we needed to add to our lineup. He'll make a great leadoff hitter and if he can play a solid CF should become an incredibly valuable player.

 

With Eaton & Garcia now locked into CF & RF respectively, that leaves one OF spot open for the foreseeable future. Unless Hahn wants to commit to De Aza long-term, it makes more sense to trade him right now and give Viciedo another opportunity in LF. Hopefully there is a market for De Aza, because he's still a useful player but doesn't really fit into our long-term mix IMO.

[Marty34]

Should've mentioned, when I say it was an even trade for the Sox, I mean value-wise in a vacuum. It fits the Sox needs and deals from relative stengths, so even if value is even, it is an overall positive for the team.

 

The problem is they have few assets left to deal. They have to win these trades bigger or buy another piece or two on the free agent market to expedite the rebuild.

[Jose Abreu]

With Eaton & Garcia now locked into CF & RF respectively, that leaves one OF spot open for the foreseeable future. Unless Hahn wants to commit to De Aza long-term, it makes more sense to trade him right now and give Viciedo another opportunity in LF. Hopefully there is a market for De Aza, because he's still a useful player but doesn't really fit into our long-term mix IMO.

People seem to forget that in his one almost completely healthy year, Viciedo went 25/78. Even 2013 wasn't bad, 14/56 I believe, and he missed significant time. Sure, his defense sucks, but we didn't sign him for his defense.

[GGajewski18]

People seem to forget that in his one almost completely healthy year, Viciedo went 25/78. Even 2013 wasn't bad, 14/56 I believe, and he missed significant time. Sure, his defense sucks, but we didn't sign him for his defense.

 

I agree. I was gonna say the same thing. He is still only 24. Some players take time. With better hitters around him now, he can definitely put up monster numbers. In no way the Sox and us as fans should be giving up on Viciedo.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

There is absolutely no reason to give up on Viciedo yet. Give him another year in LF, then let him naturally move right in to the DH role in 2015 where he can just focus on being a great hitter. Then if he still can't hit as a full-time DH, then you can worry about moving him, which will be when he is still only age 26 and under contract.

 

I mean, who else is going to DH for this team in 2015? We have no power studs in the minors who don't have a position. Our best bet would be like Andy Wilkins.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Chilihead90

[LittleHurt05]

Ultimately, regardless of the return, I come back to this thought - the Sox had 4 MLB starters with 2-3 more coming up the pipeline. You aren't going to deal Sale without a monstrosity of a package and, frankly, I don't think the odds of a deal for Sale have changed all that much. If the Sox are overwhelmed, they will move him; otherwise, there's no need for it at this point in time. That leaves you with Quintana, Danks, and Santiago.

 

Quintana has been a revelation, but he also took steps forward last year. His ground ball rate went down slightly while his flyball rate went up slightly, but they are both still within solid, acceptable levels. His strikeout rate increased by 2 per 9 IP and he actually decreased his walk rate, so his overall K/BB increased by 1 (from 1.93 to 2.93). That sort of efficiency led him to strand a few more runners than he had the previous year while allowing him to throw more innings, averaging just more than 6 innings a start. The other nice thing about that is that his IP/GS increased in the second half, going from 6 exactly to 6.14. It's not a significant increase, but it's an increase. Further, his K/9 and BB/9 both improved in the second half as well. On top of that, his velocity increased across the board last year except for 1 pitch - his changeup, which lost half a MPH. I don't think people are going to complain about that. Quintana seems to be rapidly evolving into a #2 type of pitcher. He has significant value on the market, but probably moreso to the White Sox. He wasn't going anywhere without 2-3 legitimate prospects being included.

 

Danks is coming off an injury-recovery season. He's owed something like $13 million per season over the next 3 years. Frankly, the idea of getting anything other than a team taking his contract off the Sox hands is ludicrous. He's also a nice bounce back candidate. He showed respectable velocity on the year (89.3), featured fantastic control, and exhibited a good ground ball rate. If his HR/9 regresses to the mean (16.8% HR/FB, up from 10.8% for his career), that immediately cuts runs from his ERA and adds outs. Further, if his stuff continues to recover, we could be talking about a high 3's ERA kind of guy with an increased strikeout rate. Considering you are going to get no value for him, keeping him is the right call with money in the budget.

 

Rienzo isn't going to get you any sort of value - he's not that valuable of a prospect - and Erik Johnson and Hector Santiago probably have similar ceilings, but Erik Johnson has the advantages of a. throwing from the right side and b. having 6 years prior to free agency as opposed to 4. It doesn't make sense to trade either.

 

That brings up Santiago. Santiago exhibits the ability to miss bats, as he throws multiple off speed pitches but shows off good velocity. That velocity is what throws hitters off. On that note, it's worth mentioning that his velocity this year decreased by one to one and a half MPH. If the Sox believe that to be a trend, that's reason enough to get rid of him. Beyond that, even when given the ability to start full time, in the minors, Santiago still did not pitch deep into games - he made 23 starts in the minors in 2011 and averaged [drumroll] 5 and a half innings per start. When starting in the majors, he has not been able to get to 6 innings. That is an incredibly vital number to get to because it cuts down on the usage of your relievers by an incredible amount - getting out of the 6th with ease means they aren't warming up or coming in during the 4th, 5th, or 6th innings when you get yourself in trouble. I'm sure this was something both Ventura and Cooper preached ad nauseum to him, and there were just no drastic changes made. Consider that he made 11 starts in the second half and threw 61.2 innings. His strikeout rate decreased in the second half from 9.38 to 6.71. His walk rate increased from 4.08 to 4.88. He started allowing more hits. His WHIP was 1.62, yet somehow, some way, he managed to put up a 3.94 ERA in that time frame. Tell me, do you want to sit here and tell me that a guy with a K rate under 7, a BB rate near 5, and a WHIP of 1.62 deserved to put up an ERA of 3.94, or do you believe he got lucky? I know my answer to that one.

 

If the Sox wanted to get value for a starting pitcher, all roads led to Santiago. I like the kid and think he's going to be a good middle of the rotation guy, but I think your talking about a guy who compares favorably to guys like Jorge De La Rosa, Jonathan Sanchez, and Oliver Perez - good stuff, suspect control, and if they can reign it in, they're good; if not, it will unravel.

 

Getting a guy with the type of contact, patience, and speed of Eaton for Santiago is great for the long-term prosperity of the White Sox.

 

I always wondered how a Joker like you became a mod, but I finally see why. That is some great analysis. A+ my friend

[The Ultimate Champion]

I see that we added Jacobs, nice. Is it too late to add Joe Borchard Jr. to this one too? They can have him also. The more bustpects we add to this thing the smarter we'll look when they all fail & Eaton is doing great.

[TaylorStSox]

I've never known what to think of Santiago. He has a good fastball and underwhelming secondary pitches, but still misses a hell of a lot of bats. Ultimately, if Coop doesn't like him, I'll go with that. In Coop I trust.