knightni Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 He's young, but short for a 1B. Has an arm, but struggles at 3B and in the OF. Has power but hasn't exhibited enough. Time to deal or keep and use 2014 as another development year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 He's worth more to us than anyone else. Such a high ceiling, not a high cost, years of control. If he puts up another year like last year, his value probably doesn't change from what it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 You deal him now, you aren't going to get anything other than a busted prospect. I'm keeping him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Trading ADA keeps Viciedo in LF and Danks on the bench as the fourth outfielder. This makes a bit more sense than keeping ADA since ADA isn't the best outfielder and sucks at base running. Which ever player nets the best return I guess. Edited December 11, 2013 by StRoostifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 How much better is Mark Trumbo than Dayan Viciedo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:45 PM) How much better is Mark Trumbo than Dayan Viciedo? Talent wise, not at all but numbers don't lie and I can't see Viciedo bringing the return Trumbo got. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 08:45 PM) How much better is Mark Trumbo than Dayan Viciedo? They're the exact same guy if Viciedo can hit 30 - 32 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 25/78 looks pretty damn valuable in this climate. He did that at 22. This isn't the era of Richard Hidalgo putting up 314/391/636 with 44 HRs and 122 RBIs and finishing 20th in MVP voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 There is absolutely no reason to give up on Viciedo yet. Give him another year in LF, then let him naturally move right in to the DH role in 2015 where he can just focus on being a great hitter. Then if he still can't hit as a full-time DH, then you can worry about moving him, which will be when he is still only age 26 and under contract. I mean, who else is going to DH for this team in 2015? We have no power studs in the minors who don't have a position. Our best bet would be like Andy Wilkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) Dayan should be able to net the sox a young, lefty hitting C. Who probably has similar question marks as Dayan about his long term ceiling. But then again, so should De Aza. IMO, De Aza is more valuable than Dayan for the Sox-Esp. in LF. Dayan reminds me of Juan Uribe. That free swinging hacking is what the sox are trying to get rid of. My bet is Dayan is the one dealt. Edited December 11, 2013 by beck72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxnGiants Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 If he quiets that swing a little, he hits 30+ homeruns easy. He's got too much potential to give up on now because you just wouldn't get your value back. There's a chance he doesn't take another step and loses value like GB but I don't see how you'd risk giving up a potential 30 HR guy for what little you'd get back from him at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 De Aza will be 30, Viciedo 25. De Aza is "persona non grata" with Ventura after last year's blunders. De Aza may make as much as $1.5M more than Viciedo this year. Who do you think the Sox keep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:33 PM) Trading ADA keeps Viciedo in LF and Danks on the bench as the fourth outfielder. This makes a bit more sense than keeping ADA since ADA isn't the best outfielder and sucks at base running. Which ever player nets the best return I guess. Danks is not going to be on the bench this year, unless we only go with 11 pitchers. There is no room for him - Konerko/Dunn, catcher, L. Garcia, Keppinger/Gillaspie/other. Leury Garcia will be the sub OFer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 De Aza will be 30, Viciedo 25. De Aza is "persona non grata" with Ventura after last year's blunders. De Aza may make as much as $1.5M more than Viciedo this year. Who do you think the Sox keep? Hopefully neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (bear_brian @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:53 AM) Danks is not going to be on the bench this year, unless we only go with 11 pitchers. There is no room for him - Konerko/Dunn, catcher, L. Garcia, Keppinger/Gillaspie/other. Leury Garcia will be the sub OFer It's way to early to make a definite statement like this. There are probably going to be more trades made and for all we know Dunn could be gone opening up another spot on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (balfanman @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) It's way to early to make a definite statement like this. There are probably going to be more trades made and for all we know Dunn could be gone opening up another spot on the bench. Thank you, its sad this had to be explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 01:09 AM) There is absolutely no reason to give up on Viciedo yet. Give him another year in LF, then let him naturally move right in to the DH role in 2015 where he can just focus on being a great hitter. Then if he still can't hit as a full-time DH, then you can worry about moving him, which will be when he is still only age 26 and under contract. I mean, who else is going to DH for this team in 2015? We have no power studs in the minors who don't have a position. Our best bet would be like Andy Wilkins. Hopefully by that point, everybody. Using a full time DH is ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:56 AM) Hopefully by that point, everybody. Using a full time DH is ridiculous Yeah, the Red Sox using Big Papi, the White Sox when the had Thomas and then Thome...what a joke. Edited December 11, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:57 AM) Yeah, the Red Sox using Big Papi...what a joke. If the White Sox can acquire someone with the capabilities of David Ortiz or Frank Thomas or Jim Thome or Edgar Martinez or whoever, then I'm ok with it, unless you are comparing Dayan Viciedo to those guys. There are always exceptions Dick. Viciedo, for his career, is at .264/.306/.432/.738. The idea of starting that at DH on a day to day basis is frightening. Edited December 11, 2013 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:58 AM) If the White Sox can acquire someone with the capabilities of David Ortiz, then I'm ok with it, unless you are comparing Dayan Viciedo to David Ortiz. There are always exceptions Dick. You were the one who said using a full time DH was ridiculous. There have been several that were outstanding. And while many say Viciedo is what he is and Adam Eaton is going to be really good, they might want to keep in mind, Viciedo is actually younger than Eaton. Edited December 11, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 09:01 AM) You were the one who said using a full time DH was ridiculous. There have been several that were outstanding. And while many say Viciedo is what he is and Adam Eaton is going to be really good, they might want to keep in mind, Viciedo is actually younger than Eaton. What's your end game here? Are you comparing Viciedo to Ortiz, Thomas, Thome, and Martinez? It seems like you are at this point. Who would the Sox realistically acquire that would be deserving of DHing full time in the next season and a half? It's also ridiculous to trade Chris Sale, but there are exceptions that can be made if the right offer is presented. I realize Viciedo is young. He also has a terrible approach at the plate. If he can right himself, he can be a fantastic hitter. He has great bat speed, power, and plate coverage. He's been absolutely god awful in the majors, save about 2-3 months worth of plate appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 08:58 AM) If the White Sox can acquire someone with the capabilities of David Ortiz or Frank Thomas or Jim Thome or Edgar Martinez or whoever, then I'm ok with it, unless you are comparing Dayan Viciedo to those guys. There are always exceptions Dick. Viciedo, for his career, is at .264/.306/.432/.738. The idea of starting that at DH on a day to day basis is frightening. I bet the slash line you presented for Viciedo compares favorably to the average DH in 2013, and I think he will get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 09:07 AM) I bet the slash line you presented for Viciedo compares favorably to the average DH in 2013, and I think he will get better. At the expense of getting other guys rest and playing match ups, which (theoretically) improves performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 09:09 AM) At the expense of getting other guys rest and playing match ups, which (theoretically) improves performance. First you say having a full time DH is ridiculous, then you say his slash line is frightening for a DH, then it's match ups ( and I don't know where I could find average DH numbers) and giving guys rest. Guys can still sit on the bench and get real rest, and a DH doesn't have to play 162. If Viciedo reaches his potential, or comes close to it, it is a bat you want in the line up every day. If it's DH fine. He could also still play the OF occassionally and maybe 1B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 11, 2013 -> 09:14 AM) First you say having a full time DH is ridiculous, then you say his slash line is frightening for a DH, then it's match ups ( and I don't know where I could find average DH numbers) and giving guys rest. Guys can still sit on the bench and get real rest, and a DH doesn't have to play 162. If Viciedo reaches his potential, or comes close to it, it is a bat you want in the line up every day. If it's DH fine. He could also still play the OF occassionally and maybe 1B. Yeah, I'm not in the whole arguing just to argue thing today. It's a bit of everything Dick. If you are really content with a .740 OPS from a DH, then I'll let you be happy with it. Personally, I think that's terrible and want nothing to do with it. If he proves this year that he can hit really well this year and the Sox come up with another outfielder from somewhere, then by all means, let him DH full time, f*** it. I'm not counting on it, and I don't want the White Sox to go out of their way to acquire a guy to be a full time DH, instead using it to keep guys fresh while keeping bats in the lineup and improving your ability to play matchups. If you want to argue with that, go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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