The Value of Dayan Viciedo

[RockRaines]

Viciedo would be the definition of selling low, and we all know how sensitive Soxtalk is to that.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, I'm not in the whole arguing just to argue thing today. It's a bit of everything Dick. If you are really content with a .740 OPS from a DH, then I'll let you be happy with it. Personally, I think that's terrible and want nothing to do with it. If he proves this year that he can hit really well this year and the Sox come up with another outfielder from somewhere, then by all means, let him DH full time, f*** it. I'm not counting on it, and I don't want the White Sox to go out of their way to acquire a guy to be a full time DH, instead using it to keep guys fresh while keeping bats in the lineup and improving your ability to play matchups.

 

If you want to argue with that, go ahead.

If you are alternating DH's you will be lucky to get a .700 OPS from that position. Besides, Viciedo is years away from being strictly a DH.

Keep in mind Mark Trumbo coming off a .234/.294/.741 year netted Hector Santiago and a guy who was a top 10 prospect last year in Tyler Skaggs as a slugger, who really should be a DH.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

If you are alternating DH's you will be lucky to get a .700 OPS from that position. Besides, Viciedo is years away from being strictly a DH.

Keep in mind Mark Trumbo coming off a .234/.294/.741 year netted Hector Santiago and a guy who was a top 10 prospect last year in Tyler Skaggs as a slugger, who really should be a DH.

 

The OP suggested Viciedo as a full time DH next year. That's what I was referencing. Beyond that, I think the Diamondbacks paid way, way, way, way too much for Mark Trumbo.

[Dick Allen]

The OP suggested Viciedo as a full time DH next year. That's what I was referencing. Beyond that, I think the Diamondbacks paid way, way, way, way too much for Mark Trumbo.

Why is it you think Viciedo cannot be any better than he has been? There certainly have been flashes of brilliance.

 

And you know as well as anyone, Viciedo is not going to be a guy who has no need for a glove any time soon.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Dick Allen

[harfman77]

Viciedo would be the definition of selling low, and we all know how sensitive Soxtalk is to that.

 

I am not sure, it seems like Soxtalk wants to sell low on guys that dont perform and get top 10 prospects back and Hahn for some reason just wont do it.

[witesoxfan]

Why is it you think Viciedo cannot be any better than he has been? There certainly have been flashes of brilliance.

 

I realize Viciedo is young. He also has a terrible approach at the plate. If he can right himself, he can be a fantastic hitter. He has great bat speed, power, and plate coverage. He's been absolutely god awful in the majors, save about 2-3 months worth of plate appearances.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not in the whole arguing just to argue thing today. It's a bit of everything Dick. If you are really content with a .740 OPS from a DH, then I'll let you be happy with it. Personally, I think that's terrible and want nothing to do with it. If he proves this year that he can hit really well this year and the Sox come up with another outfielder from somewhere, then by all means, let him DH full time, f*** it. I'm not counting on it, and I don't want the White Sox to go out of their way to acquire a guy to be a full time DH, instead using it to keep guys fresh while keeping bats in the lineup and improving your ability to play matchups.

 

If you want to argue with that, go ahead.

 

And you know as well as anyone, Viciedo is not going to be a guy who has no need for a glove any time soon.

 

The OP suggested Viciedo as a full time DH next year. That's what I was referencing. Beyond that, I think the Diamondbacks paid way, way, way, way too much for Mark Trumbo.

 

Pretty sure we're done here

[Dick Allen]

Pretty sure we're done here

You are the one saying his lifetime slash line makes him a horrible DH. So you are all over the place.

[Jake]

The only version of Viciedo that is likely to make it to the 2015 roster is one that you wouldn't mind DHing

[Dick Allen]

The only version of Viciedo that is likely to make it to the 2015 roster is one that you wouldn't mind DHing

He can be the primary DH, but will still be able to fill in in the OF and probably 1B. Viciedo is a year younger than Adam Eaton.

[balfanman]

Thank you, its sad this had to be explained.

 

Yes, I hate it when people make definitive statements when they have no more information or insight then the rest of us. I enjoy the banter back and forth, and listening to the different opinions, but when posters act like "know it alls" and think that they are smarter then everybody else it turns me off big time.

[harfman77]

Bottom line to me is Viciedo is more valuable to the Sox given his potential ceiling than he will net in a trade at this point. He along with Danks would be giving up assets for a devalued return.

[witesoxfan]

You are the one saying his lifetime slash line makes him a horrible DH. So you are all over the place.

 

Yes, f*** me for wanting a DH who puts up better than .260/.300/440. He can certainly get better, but if a guy is going to DH full time, I want him to be a good hitter.

[Dick Allen]

Yes, f*** me for wanting a DH who puts up better than .260/.300/440. He can certainly get better, but if a guy is going to DH full time, I want him to be a good hitter.

Yet you have no problem with a DH by committee putting up much worse numbers.

[Chisoxfn]

He's worth more to us than anyone else. Such a high ceiling, not a high cost, years of control.

 

If he puts up another year like last year, his value probably doesn't change from what it is now.

Excatly. There isn't much upside in dealing him, I presume. The upside is in holding him and seeing signs where you could move him or on him taking two steps forward and becoming the impact bat we all thought he would be. De Aza is who probably gets dealt, although he'd fit in nicely in the 2 spot. De Aza is a good player, imo, especially if he fields and runs more like he did 2 years ago.

[Chisoxfn]

You deal him now, you aren't going to get anything other than a busted prospect. I'm keeping him.

If I moved him, it would probably be for a busted pitching prospect with a big arm that Coop and company identified. Thats about the only thing I could get behind. And it probably isnt' "busted", rather just a highly touted guy that is taking longer. It isn't like Viciedo is a bust either. This is his year though.

[TheBlackSox8]

Bottom line to me is Viciedo is more valuable to the Sox given his potential ceiling than he will net in a trade at this point. He along with Danks would be giving up assets for a devalued return.

That's it. This is literally the answer to this thread. Viciedo will serve as DH/LF/1B for 2014 and probably 2015(unless opportunity in FA or trade presents itself). That's his value. You have to hope for the best, for his breakout, but also expect at least the same from him.

 

Now I think he'll have a fire lit under him for this year. He's got another Cuban(basically a year older) on the team to give him a friendly "competition" I'd imagine. Let's give the kid a year or two...after that he disappears into obscurity if he doesn't perform.

[The Ultimate Champion]

On the flip side of all this, a solid 2014 which seems to point to a bigger 2015 and beyond could lead to a contract extension with his past underwhelming performances serving as leverage for Rick Hahn, OR it massively ups his trade value which then gets to the point where maybe you would feel comfortable dealing him. There's a lot of upside for us in giving him another year.

 

If OTOH Viciedo stays pretty close to what he's been then his value shouldn't be a ton less than it is now. And should he decline, fall off a cliff, whatever, it's not like we'd be missing out on some major haul because that's not what we'd be getting if we dealt him.

 

Viciedo is pretty much the exact sort of player we should want to target if he played in another organization. He's a buy low guy with a ton of talent, and the main reason you want to acquire and not trade those types is that if you're the Sox you simply can't afford to acquire such a talented MLB-ready player at all with what you have on the farm, unless of course he's struggling.

 

There's a thread on Dominic Brown. Okay. Let's just keep Dayan, he doesn't cost anything, and then we'll see what we can get with some of our prospects & maybe another pitcher should the right deal come along.

[BlackSox13]

Yes, I hate it when people make definitive statements when they have no more information or insight then the rest of us. I enjoy the banter back and forth, and listening to the different opinions, but when posters act like "know it alls" and think that they are smarter then everybody else it turns me off big time.

I hear what you're saying, and there's plenty of them around here no doubt. I admit sometimes I'll throw some wild s*** out there, but that's what the trade rumor stuff is about and for me part of the fun. A little off season armchair gm action never hurt anybody. It helps ya through the days where nothing is going on.

 

As for the Sox bench,IMO, I take Danks as the fourth OF over L.Garcia anytime. Danks was drafted as an OF and last I knew was still considered the best defensive OF in the Sox organization. If anything L.Garcia is the odd man out, not Danks. Like you said, this roster is going to change with more trades on the way so there's a lot up in the air.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Dayan Viciedo is the present day version of Kendrys Morales. The Angels waited for 5 years for him to reach his advertised potential, which he never reached. He also can't play defense and is a terrible baserunner.

 

I would use him as a measuring stick in regards to trade value, which the additional value being in Viciedo's youth and relatively low pre-FA cost.

[Dick Allen]

Dayan Viciedo is the present day version of Kendrys Morales. The Angels waited for 5 years for him to reach his advertised potential, which he never reached. He also can't play defense and is a terrible baserunner.

 

I would use him as a measuring stick in regards to trade value, which the additional value being in Viciedo's youth and relatively low pre-FA cost.

The same Kendrys Morales who hit 43 doubles and 34 homers and a .924 OPS as a 26 year old and was doing more of the same the next season until he broke his leg during a walk off homer celebration?

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

The same Kendrys Morales who hit 43 doubles and 34 homers and a .924 OPS as a 26 year old and was doing more of the same the next season until he broke his leg during a walk off homer celebration?

 

No.

[Chisoxfn]

Dayan Viciedo is the present day version of Kendrys Morales. The Angels waited for 5 years for him to reach his advertised potential, which he never reached. He also can't play defense and is a terrible baserunner.

 

I would use him as a measuring stick in regards to trade value, which the additional value being in Viciedo's youth and relatively low pre-FA cost.

Morales was a monster for the Angels prior to having a severe injury. Check your facts cause the above couldn't be any more inaccurate.

[Vance Law]

Yet you have no problem with a DH by committee putting up much worse numbers.

 

I would assume that what he meant was that by playing matchups you can do better than a .740 OPS. I agree with that. We all hope Viciedo has a breakout year, but if (if!) he puts up a third straight season with approx. a .740 OPS they can easily find someone better (and probably left handed) to take a majority of the DH at bats.

 

I don't think Viciedo is ever going to put up a very good OBP. Perhaps he'll nudge his walk rate up a little, but he needs to hit for a higher average with more extra base hits to be a very worthwhile player with his zero defensive value.

 

[Jake]

I think we just argued for the benefit of keeping Dayan another year