Hahn may have bigger plans for Eaton and Elmore

[Kyyle23]

I'm sorry, but the logic here escapes me. Neither Eaton nor Elmore are home run hitters, so why would this be a factor?

 

It doesnt have to be a homerun, the ball flies farther. line drives to the left fielder become line drives off the fence. It boosts numbers no matter what

[harfman77]

Wasn't Elmore acquired off waivers from the Astros? If he can't play for the Astros, and looking at his stats in the minors, if anything, it makes me pause concerning Eaton's minor league stats.

 

A report on the trade said the Sox had interest in Kendrick. I wonder if that was to play 3B, or would have involved trading Beckham for a 3B.

 

Ben Zobrist was also a guy obtained from the Astros that couldn't crack their roster, it seems they would like to have him now. The Astros were up against their 40 man limit and had to outright him so they could protect Wojciekoski and Domingo Santana. They also had to leave Carlos Perez exposed and there are quite a few people here that think he would be a valuable selection.

[Jake]

I think Sizemore would be a better comp

[harfman77]

I think Sizemore would be a better comp

 

I wasn't trying to comp the players, more the situations that led them to ending up on new rosters despite not being able to stay on he 40 man roster.

 

Defensively he sounds a lot like Zobrist in that he can play ANY position...I believe he is the only player in MLB history to pitch and catch in the same game. Offensively I am not sure what he is.

[Dick Allen]

Ben Zobrist was also a guy obtained from the Astros that couldn't crack their roster, it seems they would like to have him now. The Astros were up against their 40 man limit and had to outright him so they could protect Wojciekoski and Domingo Santana. They also had to leave Carlos Perez exposed and there are quite a few people here that think he would be a valuable selection.

Ben Zobrist was traded mid season for Aubrey Huff as the Astros were trying to make a playoff push. He wasn't waived from a team that lost well over 100 games.

[Lillian]

Here is another assessment of Elmore's skills:

 

http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2013/2/4/3948...elmore-start-at

 

It doesn't sound like he has the arm to play the "hot corner". Second base looks like his best position.

 

The more I think about this potential plan of batting Eaton and Elmore at the top of the order, the more I suspect that this has been Hahn's plan. They quietly acquired Elmore and now Eaton, whom they admittedly had targeted. That can't be a coincidence.

 

This may be a case of the "whole being greater than the sum of its parts". These two "grinders" worked so notably well together at the top of Reno's lineup in 2012. They are both the kind of players that Hahn has said he would like to have; high on base percentage, contact hitters, who can take a walk and not strike out much.

Elmore would likely be a better 2 hole hitter than either Beckham or Ramirez, neither of whom has ever put up high OBP's, or demonstrated any particular acumen for that specific role.

 

If Elmore were to play second, Beckham would be the likely trade candidate, unless they moved him to third.

Under that scenario, Ramirez might be worth retaining for his defense. I doubt that the Sox would be comfortable with a double play combination of Beckham at SS and Elmore at 2B.

 

Keppinger should be moved, in any case, if possible. Semien probably gets a year at AAA.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Lillian

[sammy esposito]

Counting on Elmore to be anything more than a backup infielder is an incredible mistake. His numbers look like Keppinger's.

The greatest of Elmore stats is the small amount of homers,1 compared to lhis RBI total 73. He might not be powerful but clutch is good.

 

[sammy esposito]

What are the odds we move Beckham and start Semien at AAA with Elmore getting the 2B job. I'd say little because the org likes Beckham so much but that would seem to be the most practical use of Elmore.

I don't know how well he plays each position but Elmore can play the outfield too. Another plus for him on getting a starting spot rather than Semien.

 

[Lillian]

The Sox don't exactly have world beaters at either second or third. It shouldn't be that hard to find a place for Elmore.

Keppinger adds very little, and Beckham could play third, if the Sox want to keep him.

 

Even if this is not Hahn's plan, I can see it at least being tried as an experiment. Imagine Eaton and Elmore going to Ventura, in Spring Training, and telling him how they worked together as an effective tandem at the top of the order. Wouldn't Robbin want to see what they could do?

 

From what I read, these two "grinders" would be the closest thing to the way Louie Aparicio and Nellie Fox used to drive opponents crazy with the way they could execute the "hit and run", at the top of the order. What fond memories?

Edited December 11, 2013 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

The Sox don't exactly have world beaters at either second or third. It shouldn't be that hard to find a place for Elmore.

Keppinger adds very little, and Beckham could play third, if the Sox want to keep him.

 

Even if this is not Hahn's plan, I can see it at least being tried as an experiment. Imagine Eaton and Elmore going to Ventura, in Spring Training, and telling him how they worked together as an effective tandem at the top of the order. Wouldn't Robbin want to see what they could do?

Elmore is 9 months younger than Beckham and in over 200 plate appearances in the major leagues has put up a .588 OPS. He also was waived by the worst team in baseball. Maybe he can stick as a versatile reserve, but why base anything on what he did in AAA? Look at Beckham's minor league numbers.

 

I don't get your love. He doesn't even hit left handed.

[Lillian]

The greatest of Elmore stats is the small amount of homers,1 compared to lhis RBI total 73. He might not be powerful but clutch is good.

 

Good point.

Here's another stat that is note worthy:

In his Minor League career, he has 304 walks vs. 303 strike outs, in 2,414 plate appearances. How often do you see a stat like that?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Elmore is 9 months younger than Beckham and in over 200 plate appearances in the major leagues has put up a .588 OPS. He also was waived by the worst team in baseball. Maybe he can stick as a versatile reserve, but why base anything on what he did in AAA? Look at Beckham's minor league numbers.

 

I don't get your love. He doesn't even hit left handed.

 

Nice

[Lillian]

Elmore is 9 months younger than Beckham and in over 200 plate appearances in the major leagues has put up a .588 OPS. He also was waived by the worst team in baseball. Maybe he can stick as a versatile reserve, but why base anything on what he did in AAA? Look at Beckham's minor league numbers.

 

I don't get your love. He doesn't even hit left handed.

 

My "love" is based upon his specialized skill as a #2 hole hitter, which is a unique offensive role.

A left handed hitter, per se, has never been an issue with me. It is the need for a left handed, middle of the order bat, to break up the succession of right handed hitters, about which I have written so often. In fact, for a number 2 hitter, batting from the right side can be an advantage because he has a better look at the runner on first. He also has a bigger hole to hit in, providing he can take the ball the other way, a skill at which I suspect Elmore is quite adept.

 

I'm very intrigued by the way he worked so well with Eaton, in front of him.

Don't you agree that the ability to foul off pitches, work the count and take walks are skills that translate well to the Big Leagues?

Beckham has more potential, but he has never demonstrated that he can hit in the 2 hole. They are different players.

 

If Eaton and Elmore could work some magic at the top of the order, and set the table for Abreu, ?, Garcia, Viciedo and whoever else the Sox stick in the heart of the order, the offense could be very interesting.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Lillian

[Kyyle23]

Good point.

Here's another stat that is note worthy:

In his Minor League career, he has 304 walks vs. 303 strike outs, in 2,414 plate appearances. How often do you see a stat like that?

 

All i know is you are really projecting a lot out of this kid based on the minors.

[Lillian]

Thanks for all of the comments.

I rest my case. We'll all just have to wait until Spring Training to see what the Sox do with this potential "Dynamic Duo".

 

I'm looking forward to it.

[witesoxfan]

My "love" is based upon his specialized skill as a #2 hole hitter, which is a unique offensive role.

A left handed hitter, per se, has never been an issue with me. It is the need for a left handed, middle of the order bat, to break up the succession of right handed hitters, about which I have written so often. In fact, for a number 2 hitter, batting from the right side can be an advantage because he has a better look at the runner on first. He also has a bigger hole to hit in, providing he can take the ball the other way, at which I suspect Elmore is quite adept.

 

I'm very intrigued by the way he worked so well with Eaton, in front of him.

Don't you agree that the ability to foul off pitches, work the count and take walks are skills that translate well to the Big Leagues?

Beckham has more potential, but he has never demonstrated that he can hit in the 2 hole. They are different players.

 

If Eaton and Elmore could work some magic at the top of the order, and set the table for Abreu, ?, Garcia, Viciedo and whoever else the Sox stick in the heart of the order, the offense could be very interesting.

 

I guess you can think of him as a perfect #2 hitter. I honestly think of someone like Yadier Molina as the perfect #2 hitter. Good contact, gap to gap power, occsional ability to hit one out. Iguchi was a good one too. Elmore doesn't even offer gap to gap power.

[Dick Allen]

My "love" is based upon his specialized skill as a #2 hole hitter, which is a unique offensive role.

A left handed hitter, per se, has never been an issue with me. It is the need for a left handed, middle of the order bat, to break up the succession of right handed hitters, about which I have written so often. In fact, for a number 2 hitter, batting from the right side can be an advantage because he has a better look at the runner on first. He also has a bigger hole to hit in, providing he can take the ball the other way, at which I suspect Elmore is quite adept.

 

I'm very intrigued by the way he worked so well with Eaton, in front of him.

Don't you agree that the ability to foul off pitches, work the count and take walks are skills that translate well to the Big Leagues?

Beckham has more potential, but he has never demonstrated that he can hit in the 2 hole. They are different players.

 

If Eaton and Elmore could work some magic at the top of the order, and set the table for Abreu, ?, Garcia, Viciedo and whoever else the Sox stick in the heart of the order, the offense could be very interesting.

If the Sox were playing next year in AAA, I'd say give it a whirl. 2 organizations have given up on him even though he only costs them the minimum. I'd say the odds of him being the same player in the major leagues that he was at Reno are beyond slim.

[sammy esposito]

All i know is you are really projecting a lot out of this kid based on the minors.

As a white sox fan part of this, it is wishful thinking but just perhaps they will transform Elmore into the player he should be when teamed with a former team mate and friend. I'm realistic but we may find if there is anything to this scenario in March when Elmore and Adams will get a chance to show their stuff.

[Kyyle23]

As a white sox fan part of this, it is wishful thinking but just perhaps they will transform Elmore into the player he should be when teamed with a former team mate and friend. I'm realistic but we may find if there is anything to this scenario in March when Elmore and Adams will get a chance to show their stuff.

 

It would be nice for that to happen, but I just dont believe that this is Hahns plan going into next season.

[Lillian]

If the Sox were playing next year in AAA, I'd say give it a whirl. 2 organizations have given up on him even though he only costs them the minimum. I'd say the odds of him being the same player in the major leagues that he was at Reno are beyond slim.

 

I agree that the odds are very great that he won't put up the .344 average, or .442 OBP, which he produced hitting behind Eaton at Reno, in 2012. But, who says he as to perform at that astounding level to be good enough to bat second on the White Sox?

 

I'd take a .300 average, a .375 OBP, and the ability to execute the hit and run, as well as take and foul off pitches. Wouldn't you?

 

Hey, maybe you should be debating this point with Brett Butler. He is the one who raved about his ability as a number two hitter.

 

As far as the other "two organizations which have given up on him", he has never really had a chance to show what he can do at the Major League level. Moreover, he now would have the unique opportunity to work with his former lead off hitter, Eaton. That was the time that he was so good. Again, the two of the them together, are what apparently made it all work so well. There was that description of how they even had signs between them.

 

It would be hard to believe that Hahn and front office aren't fully aware of, and intrigued by the possibilities.

 

Well, I had intended to "rest my case", but I'll continue to debate the issue, as long as there are counter arguments to giving this experiment a try.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

If Elmore puts up a .300/.375/.400 season as the starting 2B, I would s*** my pants

[Kyyle23]

If Elmore puts up a .300/.375/.400 season as the starting 2B, I would s*** my pants

 

 

try something a little more shocking and infrequent

[Dick Allen]

I agree that the odds are very great that he won't put up the .344 average, or .442 OBP, which he produced hitting behind Eaton at Reno, in 2012. But, who says he as to perform at that astounding level to be good enough to bat second on the White Sox?

 

I'd take a .300 average, a .375 OBP, and the ability to execute the hit and run, as well as take and foul off pitches. Wouldn't you?

 

Hey, maybe you should be debating this point with Brett Butler. He is the one who raved about his ability as a number two hitter.

Of course I would take that, but ..........

It's amazing the DBacks waived him if they thought so highly of him, and then the next year, the Astros, who can use all the good players they can get waived him as well. He had a great year at Reno, but it's really stacked against him just being a regular on a major league team.

[bigruss]

I agree that the odds are very great that he won't put up the .344 average, or .442 OBP, which he produced hitting behind Eaton at Reno, in 2012. But, who says he as to perform at that astounding level to be good enough to bat second on the White Sox?

 

I'd take a .300 average, a .375 OBP, and the ability to execute the hit and run, as well as take and foul off pitches. Wouldn't you?

 

Hey, maybe you should be debating this point with Brett Butler. He is the one who raved about his ability as a number two hitter.

 

As far as the other "two organizations which have given up on him", he has never really had a chance to show what he can do at the Major League level. Moreover, he now would have the unique opportunity to work with his former lead off hitter, Eaton. That was the time that he was so good. Again, the two of the them together, are what apparently made it all work so well. There was that description of how they even had signs between them.

 

It would be hard to believe that Hahn and front office aren't fully aware of, and intrigued by the possibilities.

 

Well, I had intended to "rest my case", but I'll continue to debate the issue, as long as there are counter arguments to giving this experiment a try.

For a guy who was waived by the Astros to put up a line like that would be like getting struck by lightening 99 times in a concrete bunker.

[Lillian]

Of course I would take that, but ..........

It's amazing the DBacks waived him if they thought so highly of him, and then the next year, the Astros, who can use all the good players they can get waived him as well. He had a great year at Reno, but it's really stacked against him just being a regular on a major league team.

 

Well, I guess that I have a lot more respect for Brett Butler's opinion, than I do for Arizona's GM, especially when it comes to evaluating 2 hole hitters.