Jesus Montero?

[TaylorStSox]

I know he was a highly touted prospect but he's never put it together thus far in the bigs. From what I recall, he's a somewhat questionable defender, strikes out a lot, has a low walk rate, but has the potential to be a cost controlled heavy slugging catcher - especially if paired at the cell.

 

Not overly excited about this prospect but it's worth some discussion.

 

You just said "Tyler Flowers."

[hi8is]

You just said "Tyler Flowers."

Dude. You're absolutely right!

[Quin]

The top of that 2008 draft really wound up being hot garbage.

 

And at the time it looked stacked.

[DBAHO]

Ick. Beckham's better than Ackley, Viciedo is better than Smoak. Montero is better than Flowers and probably has the highest ceiling of them all, but I don't want any of those guys.

I know the numbers don't really support it, but I reckon Ackley's the perfect example of a guy who needs a change of scenery.

 

If you put him in a hitters park, I'd like to see what he could do for a season or 2. An .809 Post ASB OPS shows what he's capable of, he just hasn't been able to put it together on a consistent basis. He may never do that though.

[harfman77]

I know the numbers don't really support it, but I reckon Ackley's the perfect example of a guy who needs a change of scenery.

 

If you put him in a hitters park, I'd like to see what he could do for a season or 2. An .809 Post ASB OPS shows what he's capable of, he just hasn't been able to put it together on a consistent basis. He may never do that though.

 

I agree a De Aza for Ackley deal would be OK with me. Ackley has been playing CF/LF and has some upside that I think he can still achieve. It saves ~$4M this season and gives you some more roster flexibility with Ackley being able to play 1B/2B/OF.

[Eminor3rd]

Ackley > Beckham simply because he's younger and thus has a better chance to figure it out and improve. I probably wouldn't trade De Aza for him given our glut of half-decent MI prospects, but I'd probably be happy trading Viciedo for him.

[Chicago White Sox]

Ackley > Beckham simply because he's younger and thus has a better chance to figure it out and improve. I probably wouldn't trade De Aza for him given our glut of half-decent MI prospects, but I'd probably be happy trading Viciedo for him.

What's the point of keeping De Aza around over Viciedo? Are you really going to keep him long-term? Is he a piece you really feel comfortable with being part of your long-term core?

 

Clearly we're not serious about competing this year and 2015 will be De Aza's last year of team control, so either you sign him to an extension or move him while he still has some value. I know I don't want to commit to De Aza long-term.

 

Also, I get half of this board hates Dayan Viciedo because he doesn't draw a lot of walks, but he has more offensive potential than all but a handful of players in organization. If we're punting this season, we'd be foolish not to give him 600+ PAs and see if he can turn into a legitimate middle of the lineup hitter. Power is at a premium right now, just look at the Trumbo deal, and to sell low on Viciedo would be incredibly short-sighted IMO. This is a player with four years of team control left who can possibly part of our long-term core, why give up on him in a throwaway season just to keep De Aza?

[Y2Jimmy0]

What's the point of keeping De Aza around over Viciedo? Are you really going to keep him long-term? Is he a piece you really feel comfortable with being part of your long-term core?

 

Clearly we're not serious about competing this year and 2015 will be De Aza's last year of team control, so either you sign him to an extension or move him while he still has some value. I know I don't want to commit to De Aza long-term.

 

Also, I get half of this board hates Dayan Viciedo because he doesn't draw a lot of walks, but he has more offensive potential than all but a handful of players in organization. If we're punting this season, we'd be foolish not to give him 600+ PAs and see if he can turn into a legitimate middle of the lineup hitter. Power is at a premium right now, just look at the Trumbo deal, and to sell low on Viciedo would be incredibly short-sighted IMO. This is a player with four years of team control left who can possibly part of our long-term core, why give up on him in a throwaway season just to keep De Aza?

 

 

Given the choice, I would definitely keep Viciedo in this situation. Hit Dayan 6th this year after Dunn, Abreu, and Garcia. I just am not willing to totally give up on a player that could hit 30 homers next season. Doesn't really make any sense.

[Eminor3rd]

What's the point of keeping De Aza around over Viciedo? Are you really going to keep him long-term? Is he a piece you really feel comfortable with being part of your long-term core?

 

Clearly we're not serious about competing this year and 2015 will be De Aza's last year of team control, so either you sign him to an extension or move him while he still has some value. I know I don't want to commit to De Aza long-term.

 

Also, I get half of this board hates Dayan Viciedo because he doesn't draw a lot of walks, but he has more offensive potential than all but a handful of players in organization. If we're punting this season, we'd be foolish not to give him 600+ PAs and see if he can turn into a legitimate middle of the lineup hitter. Power is at a premium right now, just look at the Trumbo deal, and to sell low on Viciedo would be incredibly short-sighted IMO. This is a player with four years of team control left who can possibly part of our long-term core, why give up on him in a throwaway season just to keep De Aza?

 

The point of keeping De Aza round over Viciedo is that De Aza is a way better player than Viciedo. I'm not thrilled with De Aza being a long-term player, but I'm more thrilled than I am with Viciedo.

 

I don't hate Viciedo because he doesn't draw walks, I hate Viciedo because he's a bad offensive and defensive player. Not only does he not walk, he also doesn't hit, which means he doesn't get on base, which means he gets out A LOT. Sure, he has power, but he proved to you how much that matters when you do literally EVERYTHING else poorly -- you end up with like 12 homeruns.

 

Sure, he might get better, but I haven't seen any indication that he will. He looks totally clueless at the plate.

[Dick Allen]

The point of keeping De Aza round over Viciedo is that De Aza is a way better player than Viciedo. I'm not thrilled with De Aza being a long-term player, but I'm more thrilled than I am with Viciedo.

 

I don't hate Viciedo because he doesn't draw walks, I hate Viciedo because he's a bad offensive and defensive player. Not only does he not walk, he also doesn't hit, which means he doesn't get on base, which means he gets out A LOT. Sure, he has power, but he proved to you how much that matters when you do literally EVERYTHING else poorly -- you end up with like 12 homeruns.

 

Sure, he might get better, but I haven't seen any indication that he will. He looks totally clueless at the plate.

2013 second half Viciedo .291/.327/.792

 

He also did much better vs. RHP in 2013. He couldn't hit RHP at all previously.

 

Another strange thing considering USCF dimensions, Viciedo actually hit better on the road than at home.

 

He is still a baby. A year younger than Eaton.

[fathom]

No reason for them to trade Viciedo, especially if his value is low. Just like with Beckham, there's no harm in giving them another year to see if they can be part of the core players going forward.

[Eminor3rd]

2013 second half Viciedo .291/.327/.792

 

He also did much better vs. RHP in 2013. He couldn't hit RHP at all previously.

 

Another strange thing considering USCF dimensions, Viciedo actually hit better on the road than at home.

 

He is still a baby. A year younger than Eaton.

 

My evaluation of him is just based on completely non-professional opinion that he can't recognize pitches. And so I think his upside is limited -- but based on his results and age, I can totally understand not wanting to give up on him.

[harfman77]

I wouldn't have a problem going into next year with 2B platoon between Beckham and Ackley with Ackley getting some ABs in LF against tough RHSP. Viciedo getting the majority of the ABs in LF and Beckham and Ackley splitting the ABs at 2B.

 

I believe Bucket, or maybe Rock, said in the Winter Meetings thread something about Ackley being talked about as an option at 3B.

 

Edit: Found it in Viciedo to Mariners thread -

 

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 05:07 PM) *

Now that either De Aza or Viciedo are going to be possibly dealt, do you guys think we can get a respectable deal for Viciedo from Seattle who could use an outfield power bat?

 

Timely post. If you like Ackley (shifting to 3B for the Sox) that's recently been proposed by Jack Z. I believe Rick countered with Franklin. Stay tuned.

Edited December 13, 2013 by IowaSoxFan

[witesoxfan]

That says that Hahn either doesn't like Ackley or he values Viciedo more.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I wouldn't have a problem going into next year with 2B platoon between Beckham and Ackley with Ackley getting some ABs in LF against tough RHSP. Viciedo getting the majority of the ABs in LF and Beckham and Ackley splitting the ABs at 2B.

 

The problem there is Gordon is actually better against RHP, so the L-R platoon makes no sense.

[Eminor3rd]

The problem there is Gordon is actually better against RHP, so the L-R platoon makes no sense.

 

In this case, I'd imagine that by "platoon," Hahn would really mean "finding a reason for two guys to split time over the course of a season and see which one survives the non-tender cut"

[harfman77]

That says that Hahn either doesn't like Ackley or he values Viciedo more.

 

I would agree with him there too. Viciedo is younger and has put up better numbers. I would definitely take Ackley, but it would have to be for De Aza or perhaps as a piece in a Reed deal.

[2nd_city_saint787]

In this case, I'd imagine that by "platoon," Hahn would really mean "finding a reason for two guys to split time over the course of a season and see which one survives the non-tender cut"

 

And the problem there is you're trading an asset for a guy who might be a "non-tender cut". I would hope whoever they trade De Aza or Dayan for would have more of a role next year and for the future. If they want Ackley then it should be because they expect him to be better than Beckham and give him every opportunity to prove that.

[witesoxfan]

And the problem there is you're trading an asset for a guy who might be a "non-tender cut". I would hope whoever they trade De Aza or Dayan for would have more of a role next year and for the future. If they want Ackley then it should be because they expect him to be better than Beckham and give him every opportunity to prove that.

 

I agree completely. You need a prospect for De Aza. He's a good player. There's no reason to accept a busted prospect for him like Ackley when you can probably acquire Ackley for Deunte Heath or Andy Wilkins.

[beck72]

I believe Bucket, or maybe Rock, said in the Winter Meetings thread something about Ackley being talked about as an option at 3B.

 

Edit: Found it in Viciedo to Mariners thread -

 

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 05:07 PM) *

Now that either De Aza or Viciedo are going to be possibly dealt, do you guys think we can get a respectable deal for Viciedo from Seattle who could use an outfield power bat?

 

Timely post. If you like Ackley (shifting to 3B for the Sox) that's recently been proposed by Jack Z. I believe Rick countered with Franklin. Stay tuned.

I took it to mean that Hahn wanted Franklin not Ackley.