Law/Legal Thread

[Soxbadger]

Also Chicago is really particular about "security deposit", and prepaid rent is supposed to be held the same way. So a judge may view it as a violation, which would mean 2x deposit + attorney fees. Which is why its generally in their best interest to just give money back.

[pettie4sox]

Technically, based entirely on the application, they aren't doing anything wrong. But I think something is amiss with the "damages." They didn't actually have any loss since they filled the spot for the same time period. This is a penalty for reneging. Had you done something to prevent them from renting by August 1, then they are right. Here, though, I think you might have a case.

 

And don't feel too bad. We've all been there in one way or another.

 

I blame myself for not reading the fine print. But in reality, I just filled out another application for residency today and it was no where near as filled with similar jargon.

 

The management company and the leasing agent have extremely bad reviews on yelp too. It seems they have a history of doing this bulls***.

 

 

[iamshack]

Technically, based entirely on the application, they aren't doing anything wrong. But I think something is amiss with the "damages." They didn't actually have any loss since they filled the spot for the same time period. This is a penalty for reneging. Had you done something to prevent them from renting by August 1, then they are right. Here, though, I think you might have a case.

 

And don't feel too bad. We've all been there in one way or another.

 

I thought that was the point of the "application fee." This is usually to protect the landlord from incurring costs in the event that a potential tenant does not sign a lease.

 

Here, the leasing company wants to keep damages (resulting from lost opportunity costs) for signing an application, but not signing a lease.

 

This would be like having to make a first month's payment on a car just for the privilege of seeing if you qualify for financing for the purchase of the car.

 

They can put whatever they want in the fine print, but this sure doesn't seem enforceable given the lack of consideration flowing from the landlord to the tenant.

[farmteam]

Yeah there's something way too fishy about all this. Hell, even if the law is otherwise on the landlord's side, that's way too much money for little-to-no consideration for a court to actually enforce. The hassle on going through with that, however, is another story.

[iamshack]

Yeah there's something way too fishy about all this. Hell, even if the law is otherwise on the landlord's side, that's way too much money for little-to-no consideration for a court to actually enforce. The hassle on going through with that, however, is another story.

Which is why you should write him a demand letter!

[pettie4sox]

They are going to charge her for the application fees $40 each and 2 days of rent $100/day. Funny considering the place was like $1550/month which on a 30 day average would be $51.67/day.

 

So They are going to refund all but $280 per their recorded conversation today. I told her to go for the jugular because them trying to settle just reeks of them knowing that if they would be taken to court, they would be fleeced.

 

Can I get a lawyer with a linkedin account to look at the profiles of these two individuals just to see if we can scare them?

Edited July 15, 2014 by pettie4sox

[iamshack]

They are going to charge her for the application fees $40 each and 2 days of rent $100/day. Funny considering the place was like $1550/month which on a 30 day average would be $51.67/day.

 

So They are going to refund all but $280 per their recorded conversation today. I told her to go for the jugular because them trying to settle just reeks of them knowing that if they would be taken to court, they would be fleeced.

I'd tell them she's willing to pay $80 for the two application fees or else she's going to have her lawyer make it much more expensive for them.

[pettie4sox]

I'd tell them she's willing to pay $80 for the two application fees or else she's going to have her lawyer make it much more expensive for them.

 

I'd do the same but they really think they have a case with this signed application. I'm just not sure how much merit it holds since I'm not a lawyer. Seriously though, if they think they are so sure fire, why are they trying to settle?

[LittleHurt05]

I'd do the same but they really think they have a case with this signed application. I'm just not sure how much merit it holds since I'm not a lawyer. Seriously though, if they think they are so sure fire, why are they trying to settle?

 

As Badger said, the laws in Chicago greatly favor the tenant, especially the security deposit rules. They know that if a lawyer gets involved and they broke a single small law, they could get charged to refund the deposit + more, not to mention attorney fees.

 

Checked those yelp reviews, wow, never seen one that negative.

[G&T]

Yeah, I think the $80 is more than fair under the circumstances and they should take it. They cannot charge you rent if they received cover (another renter) for the same time period. Tell them that. They aren't allowed to reap a windfall from this situation.

 

I will say this though, the guy who is negotiating isn't a lawyer. He probably doesn't know anything except what he is being told by his boss who also doesn't know anything. There is no method to the settlement offers except that they want money. The reality is that lawyers aren't worth paying under the circumstances.

[pettie4sox]

http://www.onlinechicagorealestate.com/ren...ago-c13176.html

 

From this site:

 

SECURITY DEPOSITS AND PREPAID RENT [MUN. CODE CH. 5-12-080 AND CH. 5-12-081]

 

● The landlord must give the tenant a receipt for a security deposit which includes the owner's name, the date it was received and a description of the dwelling unit. The receipt must be signed by the person accepting such security deposit.

 

● The landlord must pay interest each year on security deposits and prepaid rent (eff. 1-1-92) held more than 6 months. The rate of interest that must be paid on the security deposit and prepaid rent is set each year by the City Comptroller. (eff. 7-1-97)

 

● Before expenses for damages can be deducted from the security deposit, the landlord must provide the tenant with an itemized statement of the damages within 30 days of the date the tenant vacates the dwelling unit.

 

● The landlord must return all security deposit and required interest, if any, minus unpaid rent and expenses for damages, within 45 days from the date the tenant vacates the dwelling unit.

 

This information is the nail in the coffin for them.

Edited July 16, 2014 by pettie4sox

[greg775]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

 

Sounds perfect -- travel, money, being thought highly of at the law firm and a rising up and comer.

 

However he has to work tons of hours (he's not married or dating anybody anymore) so he decided he hated the profession and quit. The boss talked him into taking a six month leave of absence instead of quitting.

The leave of absence will run out soon and he's thinking of returning to school to be some other occupation.

 

My questions to you:

-- Do you think this is a generational thing? Kids that are raised to just be praised and receive participation trophies have some unreal expectation of the workplace? I mean it's called 'work' for a reason.

Or do you think he has the right to quit and start over, to go from making mega dollars to nothing? Obviously his mom and dad are freaking out. They thought they had a rich son on their hands, now he's preparing to go to school again and be poor. Geez.

 

If you were him would you simply suck it up and use your law degree and rake in all that money the rest of your life? Or would you return to school to be a much lower paid profession? Is this a troubled kid to give up all that money? Give up putting his law degree to good use??

Finally, is the law profession in Chicago horrible? Are 20 somethings not interested in the rat race of chicago law?

Edited July 16, 2014 by greg775

[NorthSideSox72]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

 

Sounds perfect -- travel, money, being thought highly of at the law firm and a rising up and comer.

 

However he has to work tons of hours (he's not married or dating anybody anymore) so he decided he hated the profession and quit. The boss talked him into taking a six month leave of absence instead of quitting.

The leave of absence will run out soon and he's thinking of returning to school to be some other occupation.

 

My questions to you:

-- Do you think this is a generational thing? Kids that are raised to just be praised and receive participation trophies have some unreal expectation of the workplace? I mean it's called 'work' for a reason.

Or do you think he has the right to quit and start over, to go from making mega dollars to nothing? Obviously his mom and dad are freaking out. They thought they had a rich son on their hands, now he's preparing to go to school again and be poor. Geez.

 

If you were him would you simply suck it up and use your law degree and rake in all that money the rest of your life? Or would you return to school to be a much lower paid profession? Is this a troubled kid to give up all that money? Give up putting his law degree to good use??

 

1. The legal profession is very, very tough nowadays. Far too many lawyers, and making partner or even associate is grueling and never comes for many people. That really makes life tough for anyone.

 

2. Money ain't everything.

 

3. A law degree could be used for other work that isn't typical lawyering. For example, he could work for the FBI, or some other government agency. Many of those agencies pay good (not great) money and have reasonable work expectations. For that matter, if he goes into a "regular" corporate job and gets an MBA too, the MBA/JD combination can be a gold mine.

 

[iamshack]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

 

Sounds perfect -- travel, money, being thought highly of at the law firm and a rising up and comer.

 

However he has to work tons of hours (he's not married or dating anybody anymore) so he decided he hated the profession and quit. The boss talked him into taking a six month leave of absence instead of quitting.

The leave of absence will run out soon and he's thinking of returning to school to be some other occupation.

 

My questions to you:

-- Do you think this is a generational thing? Kids that are raised to just be praised and receive participation trophies have some unreal expectation of the workplace? I mean it's called 'work' for a reason.

Or do you think he has the right to quit and start over, to go from making mega dollars to nothing? Obviously his mom and dad are freaking out. They thought they had a rich son on their hands, now he's preparing to go to school again and be poor. Geez.

 

If you were him would you simply suck it up and use your law degree and rake in all that money the rest of your life? Or would you return to school to be a much lower paid profession? Is this a troubled kid to give up all that money? Give up putting his law degree to good use??

Finally, is the law profession in Chicago horrible? Are 20 somethings not interested in the rat race of chicago law?

He has "the right" to do whatever the hell he wants; it's his life.

 

Lawyers have the highest rate of divorce of any profession, I believe.

 

I basically did the same thing as him, except I made this decision coming out of law school, rather than after working an associate for a firm.

 

I make pretty solid money while working reasonable hours and have a skillset not many people have within my industry.

 

That being said, there are certainly times where I wonder what-if.

Edited July 16, 2014 by iamshack

[maggsmaggs]

Taking the Bar in about two weeks here in Illinois. Cannot wait to be done with it.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

 

Sounds perfect -- travel, money, being thought highly of at the law firm and a rising up and comer.

 

However he has to work tons of hours (he's not married or dating anybody anymore) so he decided he hated the profession and quit. The boss talked him into taking a six month leave of absence instead of quitting.

The leave of absence will run out soon and he's thinking of returning to school to be some other occupation.

 

My questions to you:

-- Do you think this is a generational thing? Kids that are raised to just be praised and receive participation trophies have some unreal expectation of the workplace? I mean it's called 'work' for a reason.

Or do you think he has the right to quit and start over, to go from making mega dollars to nothing? Obviously his mom and dad are freaking out. They thought they had a rich son on their hands, now he's preparing to go to school again and be poor. Geez.

 

If you were him would you simply suck it up and use your law degree and rake in all that money the rest of your life? Or would you return to school to be a much lower paid profession? Is this a troubled kid to give up all that money? Give up putting his law degree to good use??

Finally, is the law profession in Chicago horrible? Are 20 somethings not interested in the rat race of chicago law?

A similiar thing happened to a friend of mine. He was worked like a dog and couldn't take it so he quit maybe 6 months into his legal career. He drove a beer truck for a while, then went into the world of trading indexes. Now he's back as a corporate lawyer.

[cabiness42]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

 

Sounds perfect -- travel, money, being thought highly of at the law firm and a rising up and comer.

 

However he has to work tons of hours (he's not married or dating anybody anymore) so he decided he hated the profession and quit. The boss talked him into taking a six month leave of absence instead of quitting.

The leave of absence will run out soon and he's thinking of returning to school to be some other occupation.

 

My questions to you:

-- Do you think this is a generational thing? Kids that are raised to just be praised and receive participation trophies have some unreal expectation of the workplace? I mean it's called 'work' for a reason.

Or do you think he has the right to quit and start over, to go from making mega dollars to nothing? Obviously his mom and dad are freaking out. They thought they had a rich son on their hands, now he's preparing to go to school again and be poor. Geez.

 

If you were him would you simply suck it up and use your law degree and rake in all that money the rest of your life? Or would you return to school to be a much lower paid profession? Is this a troubled kid to give up all that money? Give up putting his law degree to good use??

Finally, is the law profession in Chicago horrible? Are 20 somethings not interested in the rat race of chicago law?

 

To me, life is too short to spend more than 2-3 years of it working 55+ hours per week every week.

[Iwritecode]

If you hate what you do every day, no amount of money will ever make up for it. If you have the means to make a change, then do it. It only gets harder the longer you wait.

[bigruss]

I've got friends who complain all the time about busy season as an accountant, just like going into law you pretty much expect these hours. It's much easier to think you can handle those hours then when you actually have to do it, plus your life may have changed drastically (significant other, family, etc).

 

Personally, I work in IT Security, part of that is being available for off hour work including an on call rotation. My friends give me grief when I saw I can't go out because I'm on call, but they'll complain how I make more money. I've got one friend in particular, she works as at a major TV channel company around ad sales (she essentially finds slots for her clients to air ads per their contracts), it's a strict 8 hr a day job. Meanwhile, I average about 50-55 hours a week (part of it is me doing extra out of my own accord, which has gotten me promoted and multiple raises) and I legitimately make double of what she does. She complains about money/being cheap all the time, but has more opportunities to go out/do things after work compared to me. Personally, I like making more money compared to having that extra free time at this stage in my life. My goal is to work extremely hard to solidify my career and to get me to where I want to go. Not that I'll be lazy later, but I don't want to hamper my future by not taking advantage of a time in my life where my one major responsibility is just work.

 

 

It's all about what you are willing to do and put up with, fortunately I find IT work to be a challenge and keep me interested even though the pay is what drew me to staying with it as a career.

[Soxbadger]

Pick the life you want. I prefer doing what I want to money, so that is what I do. No point in making a lot if you cant enjoy it while your young.

[greg775]

Pick the life you want. I prefer doing what I want to money, so that is what I do. No point in making a lot if you cant enjoy it while your young.

 

Thing is, you have to have money to live and not be on the streets. I have a fear of being kicked out on the streets so I work 60-80 hours a week most of the year. I've been told employers love people like me. i'm a little surprised my cousin would give up the pile of money he's making. Obviously the boss loves him if they gave him a 6 month hiatus to think about what he's about to do. Seems silly to give up a couple hundred thou a year. At some point you enter the real world. Wife, kids, house, etc.

Edited July 16, 2014 by greg775

[lord chas]

Thing is, you have to have money to live and not be on the streets. I have a fear of being kicked out on the streets so I work 60-80 hours a week most of the year. I've been told employers love people like me. i'm a little surprised my cousin would give up the pile of money he's making. Obviously the boss loves him if they gave him a 6 month hiatus to think about what he's about to do. Seems silly to give up a couple hundred thou a year. At some point you enter the real world. Wife, kids, house, etc.

Wow, 60-80 hour work weeks is nuts. What do you do Greg?

[farmteam]

Not sure if this belongs here, but to make long story short.

My cousin is a 20-something lawyer in chicago who makes good money.

He got put on some big cases as far as doing some of the 'grunt' work -- flying out to various cities on the company dime to talk to experts, etc. Staying at nice hotels, living the good life on the road.

That's not even close to grunt work. Grunt work, as an associate, is sitting in a stuffy little room analyzing, summarizing and categorizing thousands of boxes of documents for weeks or months on end. Granted, if your cousin works at one of the big firms, associates don't do that stuff, contact attorneys are hired just to do document review.

 

1. The legal profession is very, very tough nowadays. Far too many lawyers, and making partner or even associate is grueling and never comes for many people. That really makes life tough for anyone.

And that's just for law grads who actually finds jobs. It's tough out there right now. I was incredibly lucky to be able to get a job with a firm while in school and then be hired on full-time after graduation.

 

Taking the Bar in about two weeks here in Illinois. Cannot wait to be done with it.

I thought I remember you saying a while back that you decided not to go to law school, because you worked at a firm during/after college and decided it wasn't for you. What changed your mind? Also, I'm taking the Minnesota bar in two weeks and I can't wait to be done either.

Edited July 16, 2014 by farmteam

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.onlinechicagorealestate.com/ren...ago-c13176.html

 

From this site:

 

 

 

This information is the nail in the coffin for them.

 

Back to this for a second, if they take the $80 or whatever "settlement" (I call it theft) you come up with, make sure your GF sends them a letter or a confirmation email explaining the deal and expressly stating that's all that she owes.

[Jenksismyhero]

As far as the pay/lifestyle thing goes, I think that guy should do whatever he wants. HOWEVA, if he has law loans, suck it up for another year or whatever and pay those suckers off before moving on. If he's making bank without a wife or a kid, that's the perfect time to do it.

 

I'm in a spot where i'm not making what I probably should be making, but my firms practice and the people I work with are awesome. I have a relatively light case load, I have different kinds of cases, I can take off days here and there without totally screwing up my schedule. I probably work 45 hours max a week. Would an extra 10-15k really be worth not getting home to see my wife and kid until 8 every night? Nope.