witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 ESPN calculates their's differently too. I have no idea how they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) Oh, interesting. I assumed they used the traditional WAR. I am sure they have a factor for the size of the market they play in and an adjustment for how close they are to the East Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:24 PM) I am sure they have a factor for the size of the market they play in and an adjustment for how close they are to the East Coast. Derek Jeter's WAR is always his actual WAR + 2-3 WAR, depending on where the Yankees finish in the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Javy Vazquez is my favorite pitcher to look at Yeah -- Matt Cain, Ricky Nolasco, Zack Greinke are fun ones, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Javy Vazquez is my favorite pitcher to look at naked Interesting. Edited December 18, 2013 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) Interesting. He so sexy Plus his bWAR goes from like 2 to 6 to 2 with the Sox, while it's pretty much a steady 4.0 with fWAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) ESPN calculates their's differently too. I have no idea how they do it. I just compared ESPN's WAR and bWAR for a few players and it's exactly the same... I assume they used bWAR because it actually correlates better with a player's performance for a said year compared to that player's reputation. It's a little easier to stomach for the average ESPN viewer. Edited December 18, 2013 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) He so sexy Plus his bWAR goes from like 2 to 6 to 2 with the Sox, while it's pretty much a steady 4.0 with fWAR And it just so happens that the year he put up 6 bWAR, the White Sox lost 90+ games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) I just compared ESPN's WAR and bWAR for a few players and it's exactly the same... I assume they used bWAR because it actually correlates better with a player's performance for a said year compared to that player's reputation. It's a little easier to stomach for the average ESPN viewer. I was thinking it was different in the past. Oh well, not the first time I've been wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) I was thinking it was different in the past. Oh well, not the first time I've been wrong. But undoubtedly the last! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 03:05 PM) Yeah, Chili kind of just operates in a "my way or the highway" sort of fashion. I know why the statheads prefer fWAR but mainstream WAR is bWAR so that's why it's often easier to use on a message board. Depends what you mean by "mainstream". ESPN uses bWAR, or some very similar form. But people who talk advanced metrics and pretty much every baseball site on the internet uses fWAR. fWAR is far more popular, it just so happens that the most popular sports resource, ESPN, uses the one most people don't agree with. The sooner everyone uses fWAR, the sooner people who hate sabrmetrics can stop isolating the outliers bWAR creates and using it as an argument why advanced statistics suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) I acknowledged ESPN and what they used several posts above yours. fWAR is more popular for the internet and for serious baseball fans but for the everyday fan who knows the absolute bare minimum of WAR uses or has exposure to bWAR. These everyday fans are still the majority of the fans. Admittedly, fWAR is the better evaluation of the player X's value but right now we are really in transition period where sabermetrics are really just finding their way into the mainstream. I dont consider the people on this site to be casual fans. We are hardcore enough to devote our time to talking on a message board constantly. I dont see the need to use a dumbed-down, in your words, version on this site. We are all pretty educated enough I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) Javy Vazquez is my favorite pitcher to look at Looking at Javy's WAR numbers versus what we all saw in his performance will make one question the very concept of WAR. I happen to think the FG method overvalues/assumes luck a bit too much, and that the "truest" performance evaluation is somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) Looking at Javy's WAR numbers versus what we all saw in his performance will make one question the very concept of WAR. I happen to think the FG method overvalues/assumes luck a bit too much, and that the "truest" performance evaluation is somewhere in the middle. It is, and they adamantly and frequently admit that. But it is the most accurate system that exists currently; there are fewer outliers like Javy Vazquez than exist with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 18, 2013 -> 04:50 PM) It is, and they adamantly and frequently admit that. But it is the most accurate system that exists currently; there are fewer outliers like Javy Vazquez than exist with others. I agree it's the best we've got, for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 19, 2013 -> 12:26 AM) There are 75-100 posters who, as you say, "are hardcore enough to devote our time to talking on a message board constantly." The remaining probably has a handful of guys who know the difference between bWAR and fWAR. It's really a moot argument and no one can be sure either way. Personally, I just think that the group of people on this site (as the convenient sample) that understand fWAR, or are even are aware that there is more than one type of WAR, is a minority group. Although I really don't understand how fWAR is somehow hard to understand while bWAR is easier for casual fans and more accessible. That doesn't make any sense to me. Either you understand and believe in WAR, or you don't, regardless of bWAR or fWAR. Except fWAR gives much truer results that skeptics can't use as often to discredit WAR. Edited December 19, 2013 by Chilihead90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 FWIW, FanGraphs finds bWAR valuable enough for pitchers that they list it on their website under the title RA9-WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Davidson is on Intentional Talk today. They like his hair. (by cracky) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) Davidson is on Intentional Talk today. They like his hair. (by cracky) Like, will be later today, or is on right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) Like, will be later today, or is on right now? 2p is the first airing. They replay it a bunch later on, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) 2p is the first airing. They replay it a bunch later on, I'm sure. Most excellent. When they were talking about the trade last week Rose and Millar were swooning over his hair, saying things like he has the best cut of lettuce in the bigs, and he has great "show hair" which warranted an interview. I can almost guarantee Rose will ask the baseball questions, Millar will ask if he has highlights in his lettuce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 20, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) During Davidson's interview Addison Reed walked behind him doing curls. Pretty funny stuff. Just got done watching the interview. It was funny stuff. Eaton wasn't kidding about the full head of hair. He looks like Robin Thicke lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Addison killed it during Davidson's interview. Pumping iron in the background while hitting them with the state. Perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Hah, they ran my tweet on the show after the interview. I'm pretty much famous now, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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