Sox trade Addison Reed to Diamondbacks for 3b Matt Davidson

[Balta1701]

It seems a common comp for Davidson is Mark Reynolds, which I am okay with. Although Davidson will probably strike out slightly less, play slightly better defense, and hit less HR, but Reynolds was about a 2 WAR player with Arizona, which isn't great, but it's fair value in return for a closer.

Striking out slightly less than Reynolds is a big deal, frankly. If he struck out slightly less but hit fewer HR, there's a good chance it would make him a more consistent ballplayer. He can't because that's not his game, fine I get that...but the difference between 200K's a year and 150K's a year is very large.

[Balta1701]

Unfortunately I agree. I feel like I'll be kicking myself next May though. Semien needs more time and Beckham is a stop gap of sorts.

Kicking yourself in May because Beckham continues to struggle and Semien is still at AAA isn't a bad thing. You're not going to foul up Semien by keeping him at AAA, if he's struggling there...then that was where he belonged.

[Dick Allen]

Striking out slightly less than Reynolds is a big deal, frankly. If he struck out slightly less but hit fewer HR, there's a good chance it would make him a more consistent ballplayer. He can't because that's not his game, fine I get that...but the difference between 200K's a year and 150K's a year is very large.

That is where the assumption that a strike out is just like any other out, therefore they don't matter comes into play. If he has 50 less strikeouts, those other 50 ABs are either walks, HBP, or balls in play. Assuming they are all balls in play and he has a .300 bipba, that is 15 more hits, which is 30 more points on the batting average and OBP based on 500 AB.

 

A strikeout is NOT like any other out.

[Balta1701]

That is where the assumption that a strike out is just like any other out, therefore they don't matter comes into play. If he has 50 less strikeouts, those other 50 ABs are either walks, HBP, or balls in play. Assuming they are all balls in play and he has a .300 bipba, that is 15 more hits, which is 30 more points on the batting average and OBP based on 500 AB.

 

A strikeout is NOT like any other out.

I agree totally with this. If his HR stay constant, the difference between 200 K's and 150 K's is the difference between a batting average well above .250 and one well below .250. I know the limitations of that stat...but I also would say the difference between a .270 and a .230 hitter is practically the difference between a big leaguer and a backup.

[Balta1701]

As far as I'm concerned, Rick Hahn has had an A-grade offseason so far. Infusing this team with top-tier MLB ready (or near) talent is so difficult, yet so crucial to avoid a prolonged rebuild.

 

I don't see any feasible way that Adam Dunn get's dealt, but as Spring Training nears, there could be a team or two still desperate for some power, and it would be possible for him to get something done. Perhaps Viciedo/prospect could net him a catcher? Who knows what happens next.

One interesting thing to note is that Ricky has not traded away a single "prospect" at any point this offseason. Or hell, I can't remember if he's done so at all. Last offseason we didn't trade for anyone and we didn't sign anyone who cost us a draft pick, this offseason we haven't traded away anyone from our minor leagues and we haven't signed anyone that cost us a draft pick.

 

I think that's a trend as well. Hahn isn't "flipping prospects for players".

[Dick Allen]

One interesting thing to note is that Ricky has not traded away a single "prospect" at any point this offseason. Or hell, I can't remember if he's done so at all. Last offseason we didn't trade for anyone and we didn't sign anyone who cost us a draft pick, this offseason we haven't traded away anyone from our minor leagues and we haven't signed anyone that cost us a draft pick.

 

I think that's a trend as well. Hahn isn't "flipping prospects for players".

He has traded 2 of his young guys with value however in Santiago and Reed. It would really be awesome if all these young players pan out.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Some people think Semien is overrated because he hasn't been hyped-up by Baseball America and other websites. At the end of the day, he just dominated Southern League as an age appropriate middle infielder. He out-produced prospects like Joc Pederson, who was ranked the 35th overall in BA's mid-season update. Unfortunately, a lot of these websites are hesitant to give Semien his due because he's a member of the White Sox organization and we've struggled to develop position players.

 

Stop, There's no vendetta against white Sox prospects....websites like BA are all about tools and projectability. While Semien is a good all around player I don't think any of his tools would be considered a +. Semien also isn't the type of guy you could project to get increasingly better because of his age and major college background. BA, or any other website, never ranks guys like Semien who project to be just solid MLB players high. And Frankly who cares?

 

Joc Pederson fully deserves to be ranked ahead of semien by the way.

[Balta1701]

He has traded 2 of his young guys with value however in Santiago and Reed. It would really be awesome if all these young players pan out.

Yes, I note this...he's given up guys who have established themselves on the MLB roster, but in over a year, he hasn't traded away anyone from the minors. I think that's a trend.

[NorthSideSox72]

FutureSox look at Matt Davidson

 

On a related note, I'm seeing some pretty odd stuff said about Semien. Scrounging defensive reports, watching video and asking around, the reviews of Semien at SS I've read range from fringe-average to above average. I haven't seen anyone say he can't handle it, and in fact more people seem to think he's above average (or at least average) there than anything else. He's not likely to be Alexei Ramirez, or Leury Garcia over there. But I'm pretty confident he can handle the position. He's plus at 2B though, so that's more ideal in the long run. And 3B is a work in progress. He has solid footwork and a decent but not spectacular arm. Range is good but not great at SS, based on what little data I've seen.

 

As for wondering if Semien is ready offensively, I think he probably is... but what someone said earlier about the only hesitation with him being age is missing a couple key things. For one, his K:BB numbers declined a lot in AAA, and a lot again in MLB. And his AFL appearance wasn't good. So there are some reasons to worry, though I think those things will work themselves out. I'm just saying, he's likely to struggle a bit at first, but probably adjust and do quite well as the year goes on.

[Eminor3rd]

That is where the assumption that a strike out is just like any other out, therefore they don't matter comes into play. If he has 50 less strikeouts, those other 50 ABs are either walks, HBP, or balls in play. Assuming they are all balls in play and he has a .300 bipba, that is 15 more hits, which is 30 more points on the batting average and OBP based on 500 AB.

 

A strikeout is NOT like any other out.

 

No, you just proved that a strikeout isn't like a ball in play. A ball in play isn't an out yet. A strikeout is just like another out except under circumstances when runners can move.

[witesoxfan]

That's fine. But you're talking about an outfielder (CFer) that had 2,336 career hits and is a borderline Hall of Famer because he played for the Yankees. I would love to have a middle infielder who could hit 19 homers per year for 15 years, but I wouldn't be counting on it.

 

The latest position players we've produced from our system....are? Chris Young. Chris Carter, who's really a DH masquerading as a 1B. Gordon Beckham. Brent Morel. Josh Phegley. Chris Getz.

 

 

We can dream about Viciedo, Davidson, Eaton, Abreu and Garcia. That's enough for me, for now. And hopefully a catcher to get excited about someday, too.

 

#1) He's basically saying Bernie Williams is the top of that list. If the bat remains and the power develops, he certainly could be a Bernie Williams type hitter. Maybe not to the tune of .297/.381/.477/.858, but .275/.360/.440. That is absolutely similar to Bernie Williams, even if the numbers are down comparatively speaking. And maybe he does put up Bernie Williams numbers for a while.

 

#2) Each prospect should be judged and graded individually. Beckham is the only prospect who can remotely compare to Semien, and frankly, Semien's numbers are far better. The Sox minor league system has not produced many good hitters, but saying that they can't produce hitters simply because of that is just as bad.

[Dick Allen]

Yes, I note this...he's given up guys who have established themselves on the MLB roster, but in over a year, he hasn't traded away anyone from the minors. I think that's a trend.

It could be, or it might be that he can't acquire what he wants with the guys who are available in his system.

 

KW got ripped for trading minor leaguers. Gio haunts him. Everyone else........who cares? It might have cost the Charlotte Knights some wins, but not the White Sox.

[Steve9347]

As far as I'm concerned, Rick Hahn has had an A-grade offseason so far. Infusing this team with top-tier MLB ready (or near) talent is so difficult, yet so crucial to avoid a prolonged rebuild.

 

I don't see any feasible way that Adam Dunn get's dealt, but as Spring Training nears, there could be a team or two still desperate for some power, and it would be possible for him to get something done. Perhaps Viciedo/prospect could net him a catcher? Who knows what happens next.

Agree with everything above.

[southsider2k5]

As far as I'm concerned, Rick Hahn has had an A-grade offseason so far. Infusing this team with top-tier MLB ready (or near) talent is so difficult, yet so crucial to avoid a prolonged rebuild.

 

I don't see any feasible way that Adam Dunn get's dealt, but as Spring Training nears, there could be a team or two still desperate for some power, and it would be possible for him to get something done. Perhaps Viciedo/prospect could net him a catcher? Who knows what happens next.

 

Yeah, most were ready to melt this down and take years to do what Rick has done in six months. I honestly can't recall a GM who has ever been able to move in as much young, cost-controlled talent, in such a short period of time, without significantly impacting some aspect of the team negatively (trading off all of your vets, spending ass-loads of money in free agency, years of bad teams to refill the system) the way that Hahn has. I know there are always significant odds that players fail, but when they are at the level of development the odds of that are much less than in a place like Houston or the Cubs where they are trying to do their rebuilds from the draft and from signing 16 year old's in Latin American as the backbone of their system.

 

I am really impressed right now, even if this is the last move the Sox make this winter.

[hogan873]

What's really exciting about this offseason is that the Sox are possibly a catcher away from being close to competitive next year. I'm not saying they will be competing for the division title, but the moves made so far make the team look a lot better than the 99-loss mess we saw in 2013. The acquisition of a young catcher with potential would be keeping with the trend so far while also getting one step closer to being a respectable team for 2014.

 

Now, obviously a few things are going to have to go right for 2014 to be more than a building year. In addition to the youngsters (Abreu, Garcia, Davidson, and Eaton) playing well, the pitching will have to be good and players like Dunn and Viciedo will have to contribute.

 

Honestly, I don't think the Sox will be in the hunt all season. But as the team stands now, they could certainly make it a lot tougher for the other teams. More than anything, this team looks to be ready to compete as early as 2015 and for several years after.

[Kyyle23]

Jim Callis will be on the Score in their next segment to discuss the trade

[balfanman]

Yeah, most were ready to melt this down and take years to do what Rick has done in six months. I honestly can't recall a GM who has ever been able to move in as much young, cost-controlled talent, in such a short period of time, without significantly impacting some aspect of the team negatively (trading off all of your vets, spending ass-loads of money in free agency, years of bad teams to refill the system) the way that Hahn has. I know there are always significant odds that players fail, but when they are at the level of development the odds of that are much less than in a place like Houston or the Cubs where they are trying to do their rebuilds from the draft and from signing 16 year old's in Latin American as the backbone of their system.

 

I am really impressed right now, even if this is the last move the Sox make this winter.

 

Let me say that I'm impressed too and think the team is in better shape then they were 5 months ago.

 

That being said, I don't believe that Hahn has exactly aquired 'Blue Chip" prospects either. Davidson, Eton, Garcia, Abreu, eyt. are all nice prospects, but I don't think any of them are top 50 are they? Please correct me if I'm wrong (I have no doubt that someone will), but it's not like the Sox now have a stable of "Top of the Line", "can't miss" youngsters. I realize that you would of had to of had top of the line players to start trading with, but just sayin.

Edited December 17, 2013 by balfanman

[southsider2k5]

Let me say that I'm impressed too and think the team is in better shape then they were 5 months ago.

 

That being said, I don't believe that Hahn has exactly aquired 'Blue Chip" prospects either. Davidson, Eton, Garcia, Abreu, eyt. are all nice prospects, but I don't think any of them are top 50 are they? Please correct me if I'm wrong (I have no doubt that someone will), but it's not like the Sox now have a stable of "Top of the Line", "can't miss" youngsters. I realize that you would of had to of had top of the line players to start trading with, but just sayin.

 

All except Abreu were top 100, but not top 50. Abreu pretty much would be considered a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, if you put him in the rankings.

[SoxFan562004]

Let me say that I'm impressed too and think the team is in better shape then they were 5 months ago.

 

That being said, I don't believe that Hahn has exactly aquired 'Blue Chip" prospects either. Davidson, Eton, Garcia, Abreu, eyt. are all nice prospects, but I don't think any of them are top 50 are they? Please correct me if I'm wrong (I have no doubt that someone will), but it's not like the Sox now have a stable of "Top of the Line", "can't miss" youngsters. I realize that you would of had to of had top of the line players to start trading with, but just sayin.

No such thing generally, also IMO, there's a TON of politics/business behind rankings. Hahn has greatly improved the you talent with players that are generally regarded well, they have the #3 pick in the draft and they have no long-term crazy contracts. I'm optimistic about the future.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Let me say that I'm impressed too and think the team is in better shape then they were 5 months ago.

 

That being said, I don't believe that Hahn has exactly aquired 'Blue Chip" prospects either. Davidson, Eton, Garcia, Abreu, eyt. are all nice prospects, but I don't think any of them are top 50 are they? Please correct me if I'm wrong (I have no doubt that someone will), but it's not like the Sox now have a stable of "Top of the Line", "can't miss" youngsters. I realize that you would of had to of had top of the line players to start trading with, but just sayin.

 

We also haven't really given up something that would warrant a "blue chipper."

 

Also, Hahn appears to be targeting guys that are "rookies" more than they're "prospects." He clearly wants to get new talent on the ML field as soon as possible, and he's been able to do well there partially just because we have SO many holes to fill.

[peppers312]

hello white sox fans! this is my first post on this forum and i just wanted to chime in on this thread.

 

i've lurked on this board for a while now and it's great to see all these Sox fans talking about our team. there's a LOT of good information on here as well as some hilarious comments. but i want to talk about Rick Hahn and our White Sox. this is going to be TLDR, but here goes. people who think Siemien is MLB ready should pump the brakes on this kid. i think another season at the AAA level isn't going to kill him. as much as i want to see Beckham succeed, he's had 5 years to improve and all i've seen is a perennial .250 hitter with barely a .300 OBP. sure his defense is solid, but that's just not enough for someone who's already been given that amount of time at the MLB level. we did see some improvement at the beginning of last season, so i think the Sox give him one more year at 2B and see what he can do. if he turns the corner, obviously we keep him. if he struggles again, we move on with Siemien.

 

i super pleased with what Hahn has done with this roster. he basically moved Peavy, Thornton, Santiago, and Reed for Garcia, Abreu, Eaton and Davidson. he was able to get younger players with high upside, potentially keeping us competitive this season and in the future, and he shed payroll. who knows what Danks is going to bring to the rotation this season. he'll be 2 years removed from surgery and if he can get back to his 2010 form, we'll have a VERY nice starting rotation. and Dunn coming off the books by the end of the year, if not moved in a trade before the deadline if the Sox are not contending, Hahn has positioned the Sox nicely moving forward. there's a lot to be excited about on the south side and i like what Ricky is doing.

 

GO WHITE SOX!

[southsider2k5]

Welcome to Soxtalk!2

[witesoxfan]

Welcome to Soxtalk 2? Where is Soxtalk 1?

[NorthSideSox72]

hello white sox fans! this is my first post on this forum and i just wanted to chime in on this thread.

 

i've lurked on this board for a while now and it's great to see all these Sox fans talking about our team. there's a LOT of good information on here as well as some hilarious comments. but i want to talk about Rick Hahn and our White Sox. this is going to be TLDR, but here goes. people who think Siemien is MLB ready should pump the brakes on this kid. i think another season at the AAA level isn't going to kill him. as much as i want to see Beckham succeed, he's had 5 years to improve and all i've seen is a perennial .250 hitter with barely a .300 OBP. sure his defense is solid, but that's just not enough for someone who's already been given that amount of time at the MLB level. we did see some improvement at the beginning of last season, so i think the Sox give him one more year at 2B and see what he can do. if he turns the corner, obviously we keep him. if he struggles again, we move on with Siemien.

 

i super pleased with what Hahn has done with this roster. he basically moved Peavy, Thornton, Santiago, and Reed for Garcia, Abreu, Eaton and Davidson. he was able to get younger players with high upside, potentially keeping us competitive this season and in the future, and he shed payroll. who knows what Danks is going to bring to the rotation this season. he'll be 2 years removed from surgery and if he can get back to his 2010 form, we'll have a VERY nice starting rotation. and Dunn coming off the books by the end of the year, if not moved in a trade before the deadline if the Sox are not contending, Hahn has positioned the Sox nicely moving forward. there's a lot to be excited about on the south side and i like what Ricky is doing.

 

GO WHITE SOX!

Welcome aboard!

 

[Soxfest]

High praise from Nightengale:

 

The #WhiteSox have improved more than anyone in #MLB the last 6 months with acquistions of 1B Abreu, RF Garcia, CF Eaton and 3B Davidson.

Indeed