peppers312 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 if we can all agree that the White Sox are not going to win 90 games this upcoming season, it's reasonable to think that Dunn will be moved before the trade deadline to a team in contention need a power hitting left-handed DH. that's my thought going into the season. i am tempering my expectations for Abreu, Eaton, and Davidson. i'm sure we'll see flashes, but not enough this early on. i'm really hoping Garcia comes into his own this up-coming season, .290-300 AVG, .330-.350 OBP, .775-800 SLG, 20-25 HRs, 80-90 RBI i would be happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) i'm really hoping Garcia comes into his own this up-coming season, .290-300 AVG, .330-.350 OBP, .775-800 SLG, 20-25 HRs, 80-90 RBI i would be happy with that. That would make him more than adequate protection for "Miggy" Abreu. I have him penciled in to the 5 hole. Beckham will get until July '14 to prove himself, ONE. LAST. TIME., but NO longer. This year, we should have an at least adequate, and perhaps much better, replacement ready by then. With Paulie back on board, I think Leury HAS to be on the bench, regardless of his bat, due to defensive quality and flexibility. Semien and Carlos Sanchez start in AAA and duel for a probable Beckham replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Those guys who wanted the veteran backup catcher would get your wishes granted with Buck. If it were a minor league deal (or something similar), I have no problem with John Buck. He seems to be a great guy in the clubhouse (the GIF provided is him consoling Matt Harvey the day he found out his UCL was torn), at one point had a strong arm and quick release behind the plate (no idea what it's like now), has some pop, has been in the league and been around so he knows what to expect, and would presumably know his role coming into the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) That would make him more than adequate protection for "Miggy" Abreu. I have him penciled in to the 5 hole. The lineup is tough to put together since it's so right handed but I'd guess 3-4-5 is Garcia, Abreu, Dunn to start the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 08:04 PM) Those guys who wanted the veteran backup catcher would get your wishes granted with Buck. If it were a minor league deal (or something similar), I have no problem with John Buck. He seems to be a great guy in the clubhouse (the GIF provided is him consoling Matt Harvey the day he found out his UCL was torn), at one point had a strong arm and quick release behind the plate (no idea what it's like now), has some pop, has been in the league and been around so he knows what to expect, and would presumably know his role coming into the season. The problem is he can't hit the ball. He'd be buzzkill. If you want Buck, I'd just keep Flowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) The problem is he can't hit the ball. He'd be buzzkill. If you want Buck, I'd just keep Flowers. Yeah, Buck doesn't seem like an upgrade over what is already there. I wouldn't understand the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Yeah, Buck doesn't seem like an upgrade over what is already there. I wouldn't understand the point. It'd be to "add some veteran leadership" to what is obviously a very young team. That said, we're wasting a roster spot on Konerko already and we have a coaching staff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) It'd be to "add some veteran leadership" to what is obviously a very young team. That said, we're wasting a roster spot on Konerko already and we have a coaching staff as well. Frankly, I agree. I think he is suited better on a different team and the Sox are better off going with Flowers/Nieto/Phegley. If they bring him in, I'm honestly not going to be upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 11:53 PM) Dunn has no value to us. Last year Dunn was one of 12 baseball players to hit 30 home runs. In 2000, for example, 47 guys hit 30 home runs. There is value in being one of the only guys in the league who has home run power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Last year Dunn was one of 12 baseball players to hit 30 home runs. In 2000, for example, 47 guys hit 30 home runs. There is value in being one of the only guys in the league who has home run power. I don't think it's just PED testing that has lowered the HR rates. I think they have done something to the ball. In fact, wouldn't doing something to the ball make MLB look good in the court of public opinion? It would definitely help make their PED testing program look a lot more successful. It wasn't just hitters using PEDs. Lots of pitchers as well. Edited December 17, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppers312 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Last year Dunn was one of 12 baseball players to hit 30 home runs. In 2000, for example, 47 guys hit 30 home runs. There is value in being one of the only guys in the league who has home run power. exactly, Dunn brings some value to the team this year as a left-handed power hitter in a lineup full of righties. nothing more than that. either the White Sox will be competing for the AL Central or Hahn will do the right thing before the trade deadline with Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppers312 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 i wouldn't mind john buck. i think he's the type of ball player our clubhouse (every clubhouse) needs. but Flowers can put up just about the exact numbers Buck would over 162 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 05:02 PM) I don't think it's just PED testing that has lowered the HR rates. I think they have done something to the ball. In fact, wouldn't doing something to the ball make MLB look good in the court of public opinion? It would definitely help make their PED testing program look a lot more successful. It wasn't just hitters using PEDs. Lots of pitchers as well. I wasn't making an argument about PEDs exclusively. Just that Dunn's one of the only baseball players who can hit 30 home runs. Period. edit: I haven't given any thought to a de-juiced ball theory, but I don't think that would explain why strikeouts have increased so much. Edited December 17, 2013 by Vance Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) I agree with you on Dunn but it's been made clear the White Sox are still trying. If they don't move Dunn, then it's virtually impossible to have either Gillaspie or Keppinger on this roster. The bench winds up being Konerko, De Aza/Danks, backup catcher...and then an infielder. Gillaspie cannot be that infielder because he's never played even 2b professionally, let alone short, and Keppinger doesn't get used at short very much either. A bench of Konerko, De Aza, Backup catcher, and Keppinger is a silly bench since no one has any confidence with Keppinger's glove. You've pretty much got to dump 2 of them, even if it's for nothing. I think its very possible we don't have a true backup OF and Leury Garcia is the super sub that plays CF. Don't forget Avisail is also capable of playing CF if need be. That would also most likely require Dunn to play a little LF, or Kepp. Both are kind of a scary thought, but then again Viciedo is pretty awful himself anyway. Either way I think Gillaspie is gone.....unless they start Davidson in AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Last year Dunn was one of 12 baseball players to hit 30 home runs. In 2000, for example, 47 guys hit 30 home runs. There is value in being one of the only guys in the league who has home run power. He was also #138 of 140 (using qualified only) in batting average and in strikeouts. #98 of 140 in OBP. Even his SLG was #62 of 140. OPS was 69 of 140, or almost exactly middle of the pack. He hit some homers, but he sure wasn't very productive with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:09 PM) i wouldn't mind john buck. i think he's the type of ball player our clubhouse (every clubhouse) needs. We're paying Paul Konerko $2.5 million to be that guy already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Dunn can easily end up rattling of his June, July, and August numbers to start the year and could get us something better in return at the trade deadline. Dunn was really good for those months, and in those months he walked 50 times, as apposed to 26 the other 3 months, so perhaps Steverson, and his moneyball, get on base ways, will help Dunn have a half way decent season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peppers312 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:33 PM) We're paying Paul Konerko $2.5 million to be that guy already. exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What is Chris Widger up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 03:56 PM) What is Chris Widger up to? "He is currently the pitching coach for the Camden Riversharks in the Atlantic League of Professional Baseball." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Widger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 10:58 PM) "He is currently the pitching coach for the Camden Riversharks in the Atlantic League of Professional Baseball." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Widger Sign him up. I don't know the exact advanced metrics but I'm pretty sure sox were 40 games better with him in lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Who hits from the left side if Hahn trades Dunn, De Aza, and Gillespie? Eaton who you are hitting at the top of the order and who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 05:29 PM) Who hits from the left side if Hahn trades Dunn, De Aza, and Gillespie? Eaton who you are hitting at the top of the order and who? Danks presumably takes De Aza's spot on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) He was also #138 of 140 (using qualified only) in batting average and in strikeouts. #98 of 140 in OBP. Even his SLG was #62 of 140. OPS was 69 of 140, or almost exactly middle of the pack. I certainly never made the argument that he was good at any other thing. Simply that in an environment where home run power has fallen off a cliff, being one of the only guys possessing that ability is valuable. Dunn's 75 homers the last 2 years is better than anyone other than Cabrera, Davis, and Encarnacion. It is not $15 million valuable if you don't do anything else well, but if he can simply do no better than what he's been doing, there will be American League teams looking to add him mid-season. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:31 PM) He hit some homers, but he sure wasn't very productive with them. Not sure what this means, unless you meant 'he wasn't a productive hitter aside from all the home runs he hit' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 17, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) Who hits from the left side if Hahn trades Dunn, De Aza, and Gillespie? Eaton who you are hitting at the top of the order and who? I really don't think it matters. They can pick up guys in the future. Unless they are actively seeking to compete this year, you just roll with what you have. Come 2015, who is going to be hitting from the left side? Because I sure as hell don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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