Sox trade Addison Reed to Diamondbacks for 3b Matt Davidson

[Reddy]

Lets see....

 

1) anyone who plays fantasy baseball can tell you that closers are LITERALLY a dime a dozen and hardly anyone holds the job for any significant period of time.

 

2) Davidson had a .768 OPS at 22 years old in the MAJORS last year. Can you imagine if we even got THAT out of our 3B? that's a huge increase in production. Factor in that he's only going to get better, and you do this trade every day of the week and twice on sunday.

[TaylorStSox]

I think it explains some of it. Players don't have the "strength" they used to so they need to lengthen the swing and pull the ball more to try to hit the HR. The big contracts go to the HR guys so this approach increases the Ks. It's like before the rampant PEDs, the HR hitters were high strikeout guys. It was rare to have high ave., OBP and HRs.

There's not a doubt in my mind that the ball had way more to do with the era than the juice. Guys have been roiding for decades and still are. The ball is what turned warning track power into tiny SS's hitting 25 HR's a year.

[Reddy]

Oh see I think pitching is more dominant these days because of TJ surgery. Period. More guys stay in the game longer because of that procedure, thus more GOOD pitchers stay in the league longer, thus there are MORE good pitchers in the league.

[ptatc]

There's not a doubt in my mind that the ball had way more to do with the era than the juice. Guys have been roiding for decades and still are. The ball is what turned warning track power into tiny SS's hitting 25 HR's a year.

I disagree. The ball made a difference. However there is a reason that power hitters have historically been the biggest and strongest players. Strength plays a major factor in HRs.

[SoxFan1]

I disagree. The ball made a difference. However there is a reason that power hitters have historically been the biggest and strongest players. Strength plays a major factor in HRs.

I don't think people really grasp just how strong your hands/wrists/forearms have to be to hit a ball over an outfield wall with a wooden bat.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Mitch Williams just ripped the Sox for next year. He said Hahn made some good moves getting four young players but the loss of Reed is a huge one. Perhaps a closer bias there? He then said our rotation is Chris Sale and "8-10" guys competing for the last four spots.

 

I guess he missed the fact that we have an Ace in terms of WAR named Jose Quintana, have you heard of him? We also have A top 75 prospect in Erik Johnson and a three time 5+ WAR pitcher fully healthy for the first time since '10. Not to mention were one of the best teams at making pitchers from nothing.

 

I understand were not a playoff contender as is but why is this guy on MLB Network? He doesn't even do his homework before he starts talking.

 

Stop using bWAR.

[Balta1701]

On another note, one of the MLB Network's lesser known guys loved what Hahn has done since last July. He named Abreu, Garcia, Eaton and Davidson as the right step for the Sox right now. He then elaborated, "adding those four guys along with Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and JORDAN DANKS..." I had to facepalm after he named JorDanks.

That one I actually kind of get...D2 didn't have a terrible year last year. You'd really have to be paying attention to how he was used to know he was only being used sparingly. If you just were watching the stats, on September 1 he was hitting .258 with an OPS in the .720's. A guy who can't spend 100% of his time on every team could see "26 year old outfielder with decent pedigree being moderately productive in a MLB stint".

[cabiness42]

On another note, one of the MLB Network's lesser known guys loved what Hahn has done since last July. He named Abreu, Garcia, Eaton and Davidson as the right step for the Sox right now. He then elaborated, "adding those four guys along with Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and JORDAN DANKS..." I had to facepalm after he named JorDanks.

 

Is it possible he got them mixed up and meant John but said Jordan?

[Harry Chappas]

Is it possible he got them mixed up and meant John but said Jordan?

Nope he said the sox staff after sale was crap.

[NorthSideSox72]

That one I actually kind of get...D2 didn't have a terrible year last year. You'd really have to be paying attention to how he was used to know he was only being used sparingly. If you just were watching the stats, on September 1 he was hitting .258 with an OPS in the .720's. A guy who can't spend 100% of his time on every team could see "26 year old outfielder with decent pedigree being moderately productive in a MLB stint".

I actually like JorDanks a lot as the 4th OF. I liked him for that role when the inexplicably signed DWise again too. Danks the younger is a plus OF defender that handles all three slots well, runs well enough to be useful as a PR, he's got a little pop with the bat, and he costs the league minimum. Can't write a much better 4th OF profile than that.

 

I hope they can find a way to trade De Aza, and don't do something stupid like sign another Wise/Tekotte or the like to take that spot.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

Stop using bWAR.

 

Just because you don't like a stat doesn't make it wrong. While I also like fWAR better than bWAR (especially regarding pitchers), the people who developed bWAR know a hell of a lot more about advanced statistics than some random guy on a message board and should not be discounted just because you don't like their methods.

[peppers312]

i hear Brian Anderson is trying to make his way back onto the field.

 

maybe Hahn should kick the tires on him.

[mataipaepae]

I actually like JorDanks a lot as the 4th OF. I liked him for that role when the inexplicably signed DWise again too. Danks the younger is a plus OF defender that handles all three slots well, runs well enough to be useful as a PR, he's got a little pop with the bat, and he costs the league minimum. Can't write a much better 4th OF profile than that.

 

I hope they can find a way to trade De Aza, and don't do something stupid like sign another Wise/Tekotte or the like to take that spot.

I agree. I like danks as the 4th outfielder.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Just because you don't like a stat doesn't make it wrong. While I also like fWAR better than bWAR (especially regarding pitchers), the people who developed bWAR know a hell of a lot more about advanced statistics than some random guy on a message board and should not be discounted just because you don't like their methods.

 

I didn't say it was wrong, I said he needs to stop using it. fWAR is better, why would you ever use the less accurate version? And if you do, at least label it bWAR so we all know to ignore it.

[Waygodai]

I disagree. The ball made a difference. However there is a reason that power hitters have historically been the biggest and strongest players. Strength plays a major factor in HRs.

 

OT: It’s both. Actually it was combination of

 

--Roids, then designer stuff like THG + HGH + greenies erm I meant “decaf” coffee

--Juiced or corked-center baseballs

--Shrinking ballparks

--Shorter mound

--Shrinking strike-zone

--Smaller baseball seams (much harder to consistently uncork a “Nintendo” Sandy Koufax curveball nowdays without blowing your elbow out)

--Rules prohibiting pitchers not just straight-up headhunting ala Bob Gibson but even brushing the hitter off anymore (read: a comfortable hitter leaning across the plate = ready to launch, whoo-hoo)

--More economic incentive to hit HR (100-200+ million dollar contracts = a lot of chicks and a lot of, uh, “digging”  )

 

Any one of those factors on its own can be debated or even dismissed…. but when taken together, it profoundly affects power-hitting.

 

Basically baseball in our time has as much to do with 60s or even early 90s game as today’s (heavily passing-skewed) NFL has with the legendary times of Butt Ditkus or Jim Brown or whatever. Technically the same name of the game, but not really, ya know.

 

Sorry for OT haha

 

[Rowand44]

I actually like JorDanks a lot as the 4th OF. I liked him for that role when the inexplicably signed DWise again too. Danks the younger is a plus OF defender that handles all three slots well, runs well enough to be useful as a PR, he's got a little pop with the bat, and he costs the league minimum. Can't write a much better 4th OF profile than that.

 

I hope they can find a way to trade De Aza, and don't do something stupid like sign another Wise/Tekotte or the like to take that spot.

Jordan is a perfect 4th outfielder. I'm with you 100 percent.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Is it possible he got them mixed up and meant John but said Jordan?

 

It was Richard Justice. He was speaking more towards "youthful core" of the team and the roster turnover. Jordan Danks is certainly younger than the aging veteran Kenny Williams probably would have acquired to be the 4th OFer.

 

 

Nope he said the sox staff after sale was crap.

 

That was Mitch Williams who said that. He clearly doesn't/hasn't watch(ed) Quintana's starts. He is a closet Tigers fan and a giant toolbag when it comes to analyzing the AL Central.

 

MLB Network's coverage of the Sox is typically pretty bad. They are very misinformed regarding the Sox minor league / younger non-star players.

[southsider2k5]

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisMLB 34m

 

Davidson. Worried about Olt. @Arm_Side_Run: offhand question, but would you rather have Olt or Davidson, and by what margin? #WhiteSox #Cubs

[witesoxfan]

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisMLB 34m

 

Davidson. Worried about Olt. @Arm_Side_Run: offhand question, but would you rather have Olt or Davidson, and by what margin? #WhiteSox #Cubs

 

suck it Cubs

[Eminor3rd]

Just because you don't like a stat doesn't make it wrong. While I also like fWAR better than bWAR (especially regarding pitchers), the people who developed bWAR know a hell of a lot more about advanced statistics than some random guy on a message board and should not be discounted just because you don't like their methods.

 

I think if you're going to use bWAR, especially for pitchers, you have to defend why it makes sense in context. Most of the time, when people use it, they do so because it's way higher or lower than the more commonly used fWAR number and so it fits their pre-determined opinions.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[Eminor3rd]

Or because it is easily accessible due to b-r.

 

It's not any more or less accessible than FanGraphs.

 

But don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing you of anything, I was just trying to defend Chili's blanket hatred of bWAR.

[witesoxfan]

I think if you're going to use bWAR, especially for pitchers, you have to defend why it makes sense in context. Most of the time, when people use it, they do so because it's way higher or lower than the more commonly used fWAR number and so it fits their pre-determined opinions.

 

When used to describe performance, I have no problem with it whatsoever. You just have to realize that is all it's doing - for the most part, it doesn't care how you got to that 2.75 ERA, just that you got there. fWAR says "HOLD UP YOU LUCKY f***" and does some correction for luck

[Eminor3rd]

When used to describe performance, I have no problem with it whatsoever. You just have to realize that is all it's doing - for the most part, it doesn't care how you got to that 2.75 ERA, just that you got there. fWAR says "HOLD UP YOU LUCKY f***" and does some correction for luck

 

It's more accurate, I think, to describe it as attempting to strip influence of defense. Which, it is lucky to have a good defense, but it's more than just normalizing BABIP.

 

Because FIP based metrics are more stable, they correlate better year to year, and are thus a better measure of a pitcher's true talent. If you're evaluating player value for the purposes of rosterbation, fWAR is the way to go. If you want to find out who contributed most on the field whether they earned it or not, use bWAR.

[witesoxfan]

It's more accurate, I think, to describe it as attempting to strip influence of defense. Which, it is lucky to have a good defense, but it's more than just normalizing BABIP.

 

Because FIP based metrics are more stable, they correlate better year to year, and are thus a better measure of a pitcher's true talent. If you're evaluating player value for the purposes of rosterbation, fWAR is the way to go. If you want to find out who contributed most on the field whether they earned it or not, use bWAR.

 

Javy Vazquez is my favorite pitcher to look at

[chw42]

Yeah, Chili kind of just operates in a "my way or the highway" sort of fashion. I know why the statheads prefer fWAR but mainstream WAR is bWAR so that's why it's often easier to use on a message board.

 

It is? Since when?