Rosenthal: Tanaka to Yankees

[pettie4sox]

I'm just being a typical all-or-nothing type of fan ready & fully willing to dismiss anything less than MLB excellence. NPB, if perfectly on par with AAA, "sucks" to me just like AAA does. However, in both leagues, there are exceptional talents which appear here and there, but unlike AAA, in Japan they stick around because there is no other higher level to transition to. I'm just an asshole sometimes in general, but I do respect Japanese culture & the way their athletes approach sports. As an MMA fan I've followed MMA in Japan, totally different sport, but in both MMA & baseball I can tell the approach to sports is just about completely opposite. In Japan it's about honor, respect, tradition, the fighting spirit, the art form, basically it seems like sports are done in large part to show how exceptional the human body & spirit can be. Winning isn't everything. In contrast, in America (and Canada & Brazil in MMA) it's all about the money, the records, bigger is better, the lifestyle, the status, the jaw-dropping amazement factor, etc. In MLB the best athletes may roid to the gills to become superhuman, and it's a giant sponsor-aided dick measuring contest where how fast you can run or how high you can jump supersedes the respect you have for the sport & how you treat other people. In Japan, I doubt many athletes would say "If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin" or "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." With that said, while as a fan it warms my heart when I read about how Ichiro won't spit on the field or in any way disgrace the dugout, if I had Ichiro on my team I'd gladly ship him out of town for some spoiled brat rich kid with the ability to hit a baseball 450ft. That's how I approach the game as a fan, which probably explains why I'm a dick.

 

You're just not a fan of Japanese baseball. That's fine and that's your right. If you would have said this from the beginning you would probably got flamed less. I think it's how you presented your thoughts that rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Water under the bridge.

[Jerksticks]

With the history of starting pitching coming to MLB, I almost hope it is the Cubs in that 7 year $150 range.

That would be awesome. If he's good it doesn't matter and if he's bad it's a nice little present for those of us that enjoy cub futility.

 

There's just no way the sox pay this kid more than sale, is there?

[witesoxfan]

That would be awesome. If he's good it doesn't matter and if he's bad it's a nice little present for those of us that enjoy cub futility.

 

There's just no way the sox pay this kid more than sale, is there?

 

Chris Sale is signed to probably the most team friendly contract of any pitcher in the majors, and frankly it's probably the most team friendly deal of any player in the majors right now. The could easily offer him more money than they're paying Sale and they wouldn't even be 1/3 of the way to his total contract.

 

I think they will post the full $20 million and could offer him about 5/$70, and they wouldn't even be in the vicinity.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Chris Sale is signed to probably the most team friendly contract of any pitcher in the majors, and frankly it's probably the most team friendly deal of any player in the majors right now. The could easily offer him more money than they're paying Sale and they wouldn't even be 1/3 of the way to his total contract.

 

I think they will post the full $20 million and could offer him about 5/$70, and they wouldn't even be in the vicinity.

 

Depends if you mean in terms of contract they actually signed, because I'd take Mike Trout and his contract over anyone in baseball, by a large margin. He has been worth almost $100M in his first two years. LOL, insane.

[Balta1701]

Depends if you mean in terms of contract they actually signed, because I'd take Mike Trout and his contract over anyone in baseball, by a large margin. He has been worth almost $100M in his first two years. LOL, insane.

Assuming he's not extended and gets the largest arbitration deal in history (which barring injury he obviously should), his contract will look something like this the next 4 years:

 

$500k

$12 million+

$15 million+

$20 million+

 

Whereas Chris will look like this:

$3,500,000

$6,000,000

$9,150,000

$12,000,000

[witesoxfan]

Assuming he's not extended and gets the largest arbitration deal in history (which barring injury he obviously should), his contract will look something like this the next 4 years:

 

$500k

$12 million+

$15 million+

$20 million+

 

Whereas Chris will look like this:

$3,500,000

$6,000,000

$9,150,000

$12,000,000

 

I honestly think it will be closer to $15, $18-20, $22-25 before he's a free agent. There's no reason he won't get $30+ million a year in free agency.

[southsider2k5]

I honestly think it will be closer to $15, $18-20, $22-25 before he's a free agent. There's no reason he won't get $30+ million a year in free agency.

 

I would be shocked if the number isn't closer to $50 than $30.

[witesoxfan]

I would be shocked if the number isn't closer to $50 than $30.

 

That too.

 

Meanwhile, the Sox will be paying a total of like $30 million for Sale to (hopefully (knock on wood)) put up $100 million worth of surplus value.

[SoxAce]

Depends if you mean in terms of contract they actually signed, because I'd take Mike Trout and his contract over anyone in baseball, by a large margin. He has been worth almost $100M in his first two years. LOL, insane.

 

Meh, you'd start with Longoria first as far as hitters.

[witesoxfan]

Meh, you'd start with Longoria first as far as hitters.

 

His contract is no longer nearly as team friendly. It's still up there, but it's north of $100 mill now

[Jake]

I highly recommend this article from FanGraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-ta...pect-valuation/

 

The gist of it is that baseball today really, really values prospects and Tanaka is proof-positive of that. Teams are not happy with the whole "pay for past success and hope for some present" system and therefore go balls out when they can throw money at anticipated production rather than past-prime production.

 

My favorite part was when he brings up the idea of what other prospects would get on the open market. How much is Xander Bogaerts worth? He's younger, less injury risk as a position player, and just as highly regarded in prospect rankings.

 

That got me thinking...instead of a struggling team trading prospects, why not sell them? If a small-market team had a prospect that, for whatever reason, didn't fit, why not sell? If the A's had Xander Bogaerts but also great, cheap players blocking him, why not just send a notice to the other 29 teams asking for bids? A small-market team could benefit immensely from selling a player for $100 million.

[witesoxfan]

I highly recommend this article from FanGraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-ta...pect-valuation/

 

The gist of it is that baseball today really, really values prospects and Tanaka is proof-positive of that. Teams are not happy with the whole "pay for past success and hope for some present" system and therefore go balls out when they can throw money at anticipated production rather than past-prime production.

 

My favorite part was when he brings up the idea of what other prospects would get on the open market. How much is Xander Bogaerts worth? He's younger, less injury risk as a position player, and just as highly regarded in prospect rankings.

 

That got me thinking...instead of a struggling team trading prospects, why not sell them? If a small-market team had a prospect that, for whatever reason, didn't fit, why not sell? If the A's had Xander Bogaerts but also great, cheap players blocking him, why not just send a notice to the other 29 teams asking for bids? A small-market team could benefit immensely from selling a player for $100 million.

 

I like the idea, but MLB has very much been against selling their own players, because then it simply becomes a bidding war.

 

Instead of doing that, why not trade him for another blue chip prospect for a team that has a glut of those? Or trade him for a couple good, strong B-B+ prospects? Then you can maximize your assets while appeasing MLB.

 

FWIW, I don't think we are far away from seeing a mega deal like the Sox were talking about needing for Chris Sale this past winter. I doubt it's going to be the Sox, but I don't think it's far off.

[Jake]

I like the idea, but MLB has very much been against selling their own players, because then it simply becomes a bidding war.

 

Instead of doing that, why not trade him for another blue chip prospect for a team that has a glut of those? Or trade him for a couple good, strong B-B+ prospects? Then you can maximize your assets while appeasing MLB.

 

FWIW, I don't think we are far away from seeing a mega deal like the Sox were talking about needing for Chris Sale this past winter. I doubt it's going to be the Sox, but I don't think it's far off.

 

You really don't see blue-chip for blue-chip deals very often. Teams always overvalue the talent and undervalue the money. I'm guessing, at least at first, you'd consistently get better money by selling than by trading (unless you're a clever scout, which is not the same as doing better in the market)

[BlackSox13]

You really don't see blue-chip for blue-chip deals very often. Teams always overvalue the talent and undervalue the money. I'm guessing, at least at first, you'd consistently get better money by selling than by trading (unless you're a clever scout, which is not the same as doing better in the market)

I like your thinking Jake. A team could sell off a young talent, turn around and put that money towards a free agent to fill an immediate hole in an effort to compete in the upcoming season. Small and large market teams alike could really benefit from this.

[witesoxfan]

I like your thinking Jake. A team could sell off a young talent, turn around and put that money towards a free agent to fill an immediate hole in an effort to compete in the upcoming season. Small and large market teams alike could really benefit from this.

 

This is generally considered the absolute worst way to build a team.

[BlackSox13]

This is generally considered the absolute worst way to build a team.

I agree and that's why my post said nothing about building a team. Its about using the money from the sale of a young talent to help fill an immediate hole on a team that see's itself as a contender or at least close enough to contending to make it worth while.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Well here is an interesting bit of news:

 

Luke Stuckmeyer ‏@LukeStuckmeyer 3m

Japanese pitcher Masahiro Tanaka will meet with the #Cubs & #WhiteSox this week...likely in Chicago.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Well here is an interesting bit of news:

 

Luke Stuckmeyer ‏@LukeStuckmeyer 3m

Japanese pitcher Masahiro Tanaka will meet with the #Cubs & #WhiteSox this week...likely in Chicago.

Time to change the title

[southsider2k5]

Wow, I am pretty shocked by that to be honest.

[Paulstar]

Not surprising news, just confirms that Hahn and the organization are doing their due diligence and exploring all possible moves to make this team better.

[ILMOU]

Well here is an interesting bit of news:

 

Luke Stuckmeyer ‏@LukeStuckmeyer 3m

Japanese pitcher Masahiro Tanaka will meet with the #Cubs & #WhiteSox this week...likely in Chicago.

 

I'm sure he'll love the weather.

[witesoxfan]

Not surprising news, just confirms that Hahn and the organization are doing their due diligence and exploring all possible moves to make this team better.

 

Honestly, I think this is it. What else are they going to do in January? If there's trade legwork to be done, you can have a lesser person do it. Have Hahn and a couple of ambassadors there to take him out to lunch and/or dinner, show him around USCF, ask him what he's looking for in America, discuss some figures, sell the White Sox experience, and hope to go from there. It probably has a 1% (or less) chance of working, but you may as well see what you've got.

[Kyyle23]

So, that means that they put in a bid on him, no?

[southsider2k5]

So, that means that they put in a bid on him, no?

 

I would say that 2+2 = 4 here.

[brian310]

Real shocker here/sarcasm. 28 other teams will probably meet with him too.