LittleHurt05 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) I hate the Cubs as much as the next guy, but they aren't in as bad a shape as everyone makes them out to be. In 2015 they could easily field a monster lineup with Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt all in the mix. I know a lot of those guys aren't major league proven, but their top four prospects (Baez, Soler, Bryant, Almora) all have all-star potential. Their farm beats the hell out of ours so I am not convinced selling our future is as big an advantage as everyone makes it out to be. Just stating a probable unpopular opinion. Are they gonna win every game 10-9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) Are they gonna win every game 10-9? More like lose every game 27-24. Many of those guys are pretty questionable defenders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattchoo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Cubs have the payroll to do it..... They also probably want to get it done for Cubs Convention... OR at least please the fans after the Clark the Cub debacle. OT: Clark the Cub was just poorly introduced in my opinion. I think a mascot is fine for the Cubs, but they should have introduced him in person at Cubs Convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) Cubs have the payroll to do it..... They also probably want to get it done for Cubs Convention... OR at least please the fans after the Clark the Cub debacle. OT: Clark the Cub was just poorly introduced in my opinion. I think a mascot is fine for the Cubs, but they should have introduced him in person at Cubs Convention. That mascot is absolutely brutal and a slap in the face to cubs fans who have been waiting for grand wizard theo to perform his magic show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) There is a greater chance that they all bust, versus they all succeed. Trying to be completely unbiased, I think I would rather have Baez, Almora, Bryant and Soler than Eaton, Garcia, Davidson, Hawkins. They are prospects, so sure anything can happen, but it's easy to make a case for both is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) Cubs have the payroll to do it..... They also probably want to get it done for Cubs Convention... OR at least please the fans after the Clark the Cub debacle. OT: Clark the Cub was just poorly introduced in my opinion. I think a mascot is fine for the Cubs, but they should have introduced him in person at Cubs Convention. Not sure that they really do have the payroll to do it. The club is carrying a lot of debt and I would bet they are stealing from payroll to get that under control, other wise it will cripple them for the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) I hate the Cubs as much as the next guy, but they aren't in as bad a shape as everyone makes them out to be. In 2015 they could easily field a monster lineup with Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt all in the mix. I know a lot of those guys aren't major league proven, but their top four prospects (Baez, Soler, Bryant, Almora) all have all-star potential. Their farm beats the hell out of ours so I am not convinced selling our future is as big an advantage as everyone makes it out to be. Just stating a probable unpopular opinion. I'll take our rotation and MLB talent over their farm EVERY day. Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Garcia, Semien, Abreu, Davidson, Eaton, Dayan, Jones, Webb >>> Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt. Remember when Josh Vitters was a can't miss? Or when Castro was the best thing ever? Or Soto? Rizzo is basically Viciedo on the North Side. My guess is two of Baez/Soler/Bryant/Almora either never make the majors or never amount to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Mattchoo @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) Cubs have the payroll to do it..... They also probably want to get it done for Cubs Convention... OR at least please the fans after the Clark the Cub debacle. OT: Clark the Cub was just poorly introduced in my opinion. I think a mascot is fine for the Cubs, but they should have introduced him in person at Cubs Convention. Not according to Paul Sullivan on M&H yesterday. He said the team is leveraged to the gills, and really doesnt have a lot of wiggle room. He also mentioned that the team is asking front office people and scouts to carpool in order to save money, as well as other weird cost cutting measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) I am still not convinced the Sox are going to be in it at the end. What I am convinced of is that they are going to make it seem like they to drive his price up. That is why KW leaving incognito mode makes sense. Let it sound like the market is going to be really deep so that you can get the Cubs or Yankees to seriously over spend. If the Sox were to sign Tanaka, there is a lot of pressure on Hahn to upgrade the roster this season. That would mean getting a C and an established 3B so the team could compete. Davidson is your 3B. Catcher is your last remaining hole if they signed Tanaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) Trying to be completely unbiased, I think I would rather have Baez, Almora, Bryant and Soler than Eaton, Garcia, Davidson, Hawkins. They are prospects, so sure anything can happen, but it's easy to make a case for both is my point. The difference is if they played for the Sox, Buddy Bell would have had Baez and Soler start the season in AAA and Bryant would have been in AAA by the playoffs. They are good prospects, but none of them are on the level of a Sano or Buxton. I think Theo starts moving some of those guys for pitching this year before they move up much further and show their true colors. Almora and Bryant are legit, the rest have a lot of projection in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) I'll take our rotation and MLB talent over their farm EVERY day. Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Garcia, Semien, Abreu, Davidson, Eaton, Dayan, Jones, Webb >>> Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt. Remember when Josh Vitters was a can't miss? Or when Castro was the best thing ever? Or Soto? Rizzo is basically Viciedo on the North Side. My guess is two of Baez/Soler/Bryant/Almora either never make the majors or never amount to anything. I agree the Sox have a brighter future and Hahn has done a terrific job assembling/locking down talent. But to say that the Cubs future is a joke is not an accurate representation of the view of the industry. To say it's uncertain if they can contend for the long term is true, but the same could be said for the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) Trying to be completely unbiased, I think I would rather have Baez, Almora, Bryant and Soler than Eaton, Garcia, Davidson, Hawkins. They are prospects, so sure anything can happen, but it's easy to make a case for both is my point. I'm sure everyone on this board would trade the Sox best 6-8 prospects/unproven players for the Cubs best 6-8 prospects/unproven players. They're all still unproven however. The Sox have Sale and Quintana under control, and Danks should at least be a decent back end guy with the ability to recover form as a top to mid-rotation starter. The Cubs OTOH don't seem to want to pony up enough cash to sign Samardzija, and the Sox have definitely a much better pitching staff even if they do. I can't see either Chicago team as favorites here, and if the Cubs and Sox are both in this thing for real then IMO it's likely because of special circumstances, i.e. Sox offering flexibility and so on, Cubs mainly offering money and status as the staff ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Davidson is your 3B. Catcher is your last remaining hole if they signed Tanaka. I dont think you want to experiment with Davidson if you are trying to win now. He is a guy that you can bring along in a rebuild, but not a guy you would want out there everyday if you are trying to compete at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Not according to Paul Sullivan on M&H yesterday. He said the team is leveraged to the gills, and really doesnt have a lot of wiggle room. He also mentioned that the team is asking front office people and scouts to carpool in order to save money, as well as other weird cost cutting measures. Seriously? That's f***in great if true, ha. Although really, we should all be carpooling when appropriate. Let's all start being more sensible with our resource expenditures guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) The difference is if they played for the Sox, Buddy Bell would have had Baez and Soler start the season in AAA and Bryant would have been in AAA by the playoffs. They are good prospects, but none of them are on the level of a Sano or Buxton. I think Theo starts moving some of those guys for pitching this year before they move up much further and show their true colors. Almora and Bryant are legit, the rest have a lot of projection in them. Isn't that what frustrates us all about the Sox handling of their younger, raw prospects? I agree that Theo will be forced to move some of his hitting prospects for pitching if they miss on Tanaka and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) I'll take our rotation and MLB talent over their farm EVERY day. Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Garcia, Semien, Abreu, Davidson, Eaton, Dayan, Jones, Webb >>> Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt. Remember when Josh Vitters was a can't miss? Or when Castro was the best thing ever? Or Soto? Rizzo is basically Viciedo on the North Side. My guess is two of Baez/Soler/Bryant/Almora either never make the majors or never amount to anything. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 08:06 PM) Not according to Paul Sullivan on M&H yesterday. He said the team is leveraged to the gills, and really doesnt have a lot of wiggle room. He also mentioned that the team is asking front office people and scouts to carpool in order to save money, as well as other weird cost cutting measures. That carpool thing is bizarre. If true, I could go on a mini rant again about baseball. A million dollars here and there is absolutely NOTHING when discussing contract signings, etc. One million dollars would have to be TOTALLY a high end figure on how much they'd save if everybody car pooled to work and scouting assignments, etc. Chump change. Just raise prices of hot dogs another dollar if you need the money that bad; they are unaffordable for the average fan now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) Would be a heck of a haul. Even if Tanaka were an average pitcher, I think it would be a wise business move to make. There is the international appeal, the mainstream attention, and the competition for top team in Chicago. It would be a huge attention grabber, ticket sales would increase, and their TV bucks go up... Not to mention, he could be an elite arm that is worth every dollar he gets. Seems like a solid business move to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) I'll take our rotation and MLB talent over their farm EVERY day. Sale, Quintana, Johnson, Garcia, Semien, Abreu, Davidson, Eaton, Dayan, Jones, Webb >>> Rizzo, Castro, Baez, Soler, Bryant, Alcantara, Almora, and Olt. Remember when Josh Vitters was a can't miss? Or when Castro was the best thing ever? Or Soto? Rizzo is basically Viciedo on the North Side. My guess is two of Baez/Soler/Bryant/Almora either never make the majors or never amount to anything. Basically you're saying Sale, Quintana > Rizzo & Castro IMO, because none of those other players have established themselves as indispensable core pieces. And I would agree with saying that we'd have the better outlook because we have the pitching, and this game is built on pitching. I'm not sure about Rizzo being like Viciedo either. Viciedo has a ton of ability and may become an All-Star caliber player, but Rizzo is a 1B who walks and fits somewhere, Viciedo just took a big step back OTOH & we might want him out of the OF at some point here. I'd trade Viciedo straight-up for Rizzo, Cubs wouldn't though. Edited January 17, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Whitey @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:17 PM) Even if Tanaka were an average pitcher, I think it would be a wise business move to make. There is the international appeal, the mainstream attention, and the competition for top team in Chicago. It would be a huge attention grabber, ticket sales would increase, and their TV bucks go up... Not to mention, he could be an elite arm that is worth every dollar he gets. Seems like a solid business move to me. The problem with the cubs is that there are many moving pieces unrelated to baseball regarding their finances. They need to take debt servicing and park renovations into account when determining what is going on. They are also paying for Soriano this year so keep that in mind when looking at the 2014 payroll for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Whitey @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) Even if Tanaka were an average pitcher, I think it would be a wise business move to make. There is the international appeal, the mainstream attention, and the competition for top team in Chicago. It would be a huge attention grabber, ticket sales would increase, and their TV bucks go up... Not to mention, he could be an elite arm that is worth every dollar he gets. Seems like a solid business move to me. The problem for the Cubs is that "Ticket Sales" only get them so far. That ballpark stays 90% full anyway right, and they don't have luxury boxes that are going unsold. If you sell a handful more tickets, that doesn't generate $20 million in revenue per year. TV bucks yes, that's a solid point and that one they probably will take into account. But if you compare straight up to the White Sox...if the White Sox made a world series run next year they could legitimatley think about having their ticket sales go up by 50% or more. The Cubs could see a 5% increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) Basically you're saying Sale, Quintana > Rizzo & Castro IMO, because none of those other players have established themselves as indispensable core pieces. And I would agree with saying that we'd have the better outlook because we have the pitching, and this game is built on pitching. I'm not sure about Rizzo being like Viciedo either. Viciedo has a ton of ability and may become an All-Star caliber player, but Rizzo is a 1B who walks and fits somewhere, Viciedo just took a big step back OTOH & we might want him out of the OF at some point here. I'd trade Viciedo straight-up for Rizzo, Cubs wouldn't though. A) Yes, but if we're tossing in prospects, I still take the Sox. B) Rizzo slash line last year: .233/.323/.419 Viciedo slash: .265/.304/.426 So Rizzo walks a bit more, Viciedo hits and has more power. But both were bad but at least Dayan has the injured excuse. Dayan is one year older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) The problem with the cubs is that there are many moving pieces unrelated to baseball regarding their finances. They need to take debt servicing and park renovations into account when determining what is going on. They are also paying for Soriano this year so keep that in mind when looking at the 2014 payroll for them. From a Cubs/Sox perspective that is spot on. Also, the current climate has teams clamoring for young international free agents. To step up and land the top 2 international FA's would make a huge statement to the rest of the league. That's MLB powerhouse type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 KW has to be lying. Bernstein said the Sox were backing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosoxtim Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) KW has to be lying. Bernstein said the Sox were backing off. why do you believe bernstain does he a a source to back it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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