Bruce Levine

[Marty34]

If not Tanaka, who better to spend their money on over the next 6 years? I think it's a longshot they win the bidding, but they have the resources to make a competitive offer.

[ILMOU]

Something about the White Sox, guys underperforming, and personal issues....

 

Yeah, I'd heard about Lexi's issues last year, but nothing about Kepp. I personally think that Lexi is more likely to bounce back (defensively), while putting up similar offensive numbers.

[witesoxfan]

If not Tanaka, who better to spend their money on over the next 6 years? I think it's a longshot they win the bidding, but they have the resources to make a competitive offer.

 

I have no problem with them pursuing Tanaka, but this is absolutely the worst argument for it. You simply never know what need might emerge. Maybe Davidson busts and David Wright or Evan Longoria become available for trade. Maybe they develop the assets and save the money to pursue a player like Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. Maybe whoever they draft 3rd this year is extended in 2016 because he's that good. You simply don't know what opportunities will present themself, so spending just to spend is an absolutely terrible philosophy that gets teams in all kinds of trouble.

[RockRaines]

You cant have it all at once and I dont think the Sox are in win now mode to overpay for a starting pitcher. i think they try to see if these guys develop and then surround them with higher priced talent if it works out.

[ILMOU]

Hopefully a Garza-sized hole IMO.

 

MLBTR put something out there before about an exec who wouldn't be in the bidding saying Tanaka will get over $100M. $20M posting fee + $100M or more in salary, for a guy who has never pitched in MLB and supposedly is a significant step down from Darvish? No thanks. Hot name now, but that could be one bad deal in the future.

 

Give me Garza please on a much better deal.

 

Sale-Garza-Quintana-Johnson-Danks going into the season, and when Beck is ready you trade Danks or Garza for a haul.

 

Please do that Sox, and also continue to acquire prospects.

 

Gigantic NO thanks to Garza. Still living off his '08 playoff reputation, imo, and part of the group of pitchers that consistently underperform Fip - therefore making him highly overrated until that stat falls out of favor. Oh, and he's not much of a teammate by most accounts.

 

The window-closing desperation of the Rangers clearly increased his value last year, and I'm sure they already have huge regrets about giving up CJ Edwards for two months of the guy.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[Dick Allen]

I have no problem with them pursuing Tanaka, but this is absolutely the worst argument for it. You simply never know what need might emerge. Maybe Davidson busts and David Wright or Evan Longoria become available for trade. Maybe they develop the assets and save the money to pursue a player like Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. Maybe whoever they draft 3rd this year is extended in 2016 because he's that good. You simply don't know what opportunities will present themself, so spending just to spend is an absolutely terrible philosophy that gets teams in all kinds of trouble.

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Marty again, but he did say who "better" to spend their money on, not spend it to spend it. If Tanaka is as good as advertised, if you could get him for $100 million, the way the cost of pitching has skyrocketed, he will be a steal. And Sale, Tanaka, Q, Johnson, perhaps a pitcher with the #3 pick is a rotation where a lot can go wrong on the offensive side, and you still will be in really good shape.

[Marty34]

I have no problem with them pursuing Tanaka, but this is absolutely the worst argument for it. You simply never know what need might emerge. Maybe Davidson busts and David Wright or Evan Longoria become available for trade. Maybe they develop the assets and save the money to pursue a player like Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. Maybe whoever they draft 3rd this year is extended in 2016 because he's that good. You simply don't know what opportunities will present themself, so spending just to spend is an absolutely terrible philosophy that gets teams in all kinds of trouble.

 

If a big-time player is available over the next year or two (at least) via trade, there are probably 20 teams better positioned than the Sox to acquire them due to organizational depth. If they believe in this core Tanaka is the perfect fit (if he is as advertised.)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I listened to the Hahn interview this morning, and not once (if I recall) did he mention anything about trying to win the division this year. I was very impressed by this approach. As for Tanaka, no thanks...the cost is just going to be insane.

You got it. The Sox already took their "leap of faith" on Abreu and they won't spend $20M just for the right to spend another $100M+. If they want more pitching they can always sign. Garza ,Jimenez etc for much cheaper.

[shakes]

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Marty again, but he did say who "better" to spend their money on, not spend it to spend it. If Tanaka is as good as advertised, if you could get him for $100 million, the way the cost of pitching has skyrocketed, he will be a steal. And Sale, Tanaka, Q, Johnson, perhaps a pitcher with the #3 pick is a rotation where a lot can go wrong on the offensive side, and you still will be in really good shape.

 

 

It's highly unlikely you can get him for that price. Some reports are saying the bidding will go for 7 years and could top $150 million. That's as reckless as it gets to give an unknown pitcher 7 years. I know he is 25 but I don't care. He is a complete unknown and no scouts believe he is in the same league as Darvish. Let him be someone else's crazy contract and spread that money around on a couple of upgrades over the next couple of years. I would have felt safer with the Cano contract than that, if the reports are true.

[shakes]

If a big-time player is available over the next year or two (at least) via trade, there are probably 20 teams better positioned than the Sox to acquire them due to organizational depth. If they believe in this core Tanaka is the perfect fit (if he is as advertised.)

 

Just like Peavy or Edwin Jackson or anyone else they have traded for in the past?

 

The only way you are right is if the Sox spend on stupid contracts and have no financial flexibility. Otherwise, your crystal ball is no better than anyone's to be in a position to know this. They have a lot more young talent throughout the organization than they have had in the past and they've pulled off the the trades they have wanted.

[Marty34]

It's highly unlikely you can get him for that price. Some reports are saying the bidding will go for 7 years and could top $150 million. That's as reckless as it gets to give an unknown pitcher 7 years. I know he is 25 but I don't care. He is a complete unknown and no scouts believe he is in the same league as Darvish. Let him be someone else's crazy contract and spread that money around on a couple of upgrades over the next couple of years. I would have felt safer with the Cano contract than that, if the reports are true.

 

Who are these upgrades you write of? Point is, if the current core flops these "upgrades" aren't going to win them anything.

[witesoxfan]

Who are these upgrades you write of? Point is, if the current core flops these "upgrades" aren't going to win them anything.

 

If 3 of the 4 work out, you then have money to replace the one that does not. If none of them do, then you're f***ed anyways.

[hogan873]

Who are these upgrades you write of? Point is, if the current core flops these "upgrades" aren't going to win them anything.

The availability of players changes all of the time. You know that. If these new core players take off, and the Sox are competing for the division at the trade deadline, there will be players (upgrades) available via trade. If the new core players do well, and the future looks bright for 2015, there will be players (upgrades) available via trades and FA signings in the off season.

 

I don't know why you argue these obvious points sometimes. You know as well as the rest of us that there are "upgrades" available when a team is looking for them.

Edited December 18, 2013 by pittshoganerkoff

[Marty34]

If 3 of the 4 work out, you then have money to replace the one that does not. If none of them do, then you're f***ed anyways.

 

Payroll obligations over the next three years:

 

2015 $45M

2016 $38M

2017 $24M

 

Add Tanaka at $25M per and there is still plenty of room. Tanaka would also alow them to deal Danks in 2015 if he has a bounce back year.

[hogan873]

Payroll obligations over the next three years:

 

2015 $45M

2016 $38M

2017 $24M

 

Add Tanaka at $25M per and there is still plenty of room. Tanaka would also alow them to deal Danks in 2015 if he has a bounce back year.

I think that right there makes this entire conversation moot. I don't see the Sox even considering a contract like that. Not when there are more important holes to fill.

Edited December 18, 2013 by pittshoganerkoff

[shakes]

I think that right there makes this entire conversation moot. I don't see the Sox even considering a contract like that. Not when there are more important holes to fill.

 

 

They won't consider a contract like that nor should they. Developing pitching is their strong suit. Why bury themselves in a contract that has potential to be suffocating? If you keep financial flexibility you can make mid level upgrades through free agency or have the ability to take on contracts other teams can't afford. I would have rather been Washington and got Fister for a song this offseason, than give an unknown pitcher a 7 year contract at a bloated rate because he is 25 and they might have the money to do it.

 

Tanaka's contract will be the riskiest of the offseason.

[SoxAce]

If Tanaka had Yu Darvish's stuff, I think many might be more inclined to take on the risk. I like him as a pitcher, but I don't think the sox will take that route.

[Dick Allen]

If Tanaka had Yu Darvish's stuff, I think many might be more inclined to take on the risk. I like him as a pitcher, but I don't think the sox will take that route.

The guy throws 95 and has what many call the best splitter in the world.

[SoxAce]

The guy throws 95 and has what many call the best splitter in the world.

 

He can get it up to 95 from what I heard. I believe he usually sits at 90-93. He's also had a declining K rate in Japan. Also has much more mileage on his arm than Darvish (who is built like a horse and increased his innings) had comming out. (Tanaka threw 186+ innings as an 18 year old)

Edited December 18, 2013 by SoxAce

[greg775]

They won't consider a contract like that nor should they. Developing pitching is their strong suit. Why bury themselves in a contract that has potential to be suffocating? If you keep financial flexibility you can make mid level upgrades through free agency or have the ability to take on contracts other teams can't afford. I would have rather been Washington and got Fister for a song this offseason, than give an unknown pitcher a 7 year contract at a bloated rate because he is 25 and they might have the money to do it.

 

Tanaka's contract will be the riskiest of the offseason.

 

Why bury yourself in a contract that could be suffocating? Can you say Peavy, Rios, Dunn? The Sox do it on occasion as well as many other teams. I do agree we need a lot more to win the division. I wish we'd do something major because with Leyland gone, we might be able to contend SOON. Cleveland might be the new Detroit in our division.

[Marty34]

I think that right there makes this entire conversation moot. I don't see the Sox even considering a contract like that. Not when there are more important holes to fill.

 

There are few things in MLB as valuable a top-of-the-rotation starter. The Sox have Sale and the #3 pick in the draft, signing Tanaka would give them a chance to have three top-of-the-rotation starters by 2017 for the princely sum of less than $40M. With their future payroll obligations, it's absolutely a no-brainer to competitively bid for Tanaka.

[witesoxfan]

There are few things in MLB as valuable a top-of-the-rotation starter. The Sox have Sale and the #3 pick in the draft, signing Tanaka would give them a chance to have three top-of-the-rotation starters by 2017 for the princely sum of less than $40M. With their future payroll obligations, it's absolutely a no-brainer to competitively bid for Tanaka.

 

If they think he will hold up, I agree that they should spend on him. This is logic I can get behind.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think there's a chance we sign Tanaka but Hahn said what seemed like a 100 times, "we are going to use the international market," prior to the offseason. While it was before he locked up Abreu, maybe he was alluding to more than Abreu.

 

I want to say there are about another half of a dozen Cuban defectors at various stages of getting into MLB. That seems like the "moneyball" market right now.

[shakes]

There are few things in MLB as valuable a top-of-the-rotation starter. The Sox have Sale and the #3 pick in the draft, signing Tanaka would give them a chance to have three top-of-the-rotation starters by 2017 for the princely sum of less than $40M. With their future payroll obligations, it's absolutely a no-brainer to competitively bid for Tanaka.

 

 

That's a whole lot of hypothetical. Again, Tanaka will potentially require 7 years and $150 million. For a guy who hasn't started more than 23 games in a season and scouts are split on whether he is even a top of the rotation starter....let alone an 'Ace'. He has had declining velocity and doesn't strike out a whole lot of hitters in a far inferior league, and historically pitchers from that league have not stayed healthy or succeeded long term here. But, who cares the White Sox can eat a 7 year contract when according to some, you specifically, have far too many holes to compete right now. Brilliant.

 

And the Sox strength is finding and developing pitchers. Why spend insane money, on a maybe with a huge amount of questions marks, when you can fill multiple holes when it is time to compete?

Edited December 18, 2013 by shakes

[Quin]

That's a whole lot of hypothetical. Again, Tanaka will potentially require 7 years and $150 million. For a guy who hasn't started more than 23 games in a season and scouts are split on whether he is even a top of the rotation starter....let alone an 'Ace'. He has had declining velocity and doesn't strike out a whole lot of hitters in a far inferior league, and historically pitchers from that league have not stayed healthy or succeeded long term here. But, who cares the White Sox can eat a 7 year contract when according to some, you specifically, have far too many holes to compete right now. Brilliant.

 

And the Sox strength is finding and developing pitchers. Why spend insane money, on a maybe with a huge amount of questions marks, when you can fill multiple holes when it is time to compete?

 

Sox also have a habit of making pitchers better. If Coop believes he can succeed with Tanaka, it's a no brainer to go for him because then Coop would look at him a second ace.