Viciedo; Start, platoon, or trade?

[Vance Law]

I don't think either DeAza or Viciedo is a starting OF for a championship team

 

John Jay was a starting OF for a championship team. So was Andres Torres. And Gregor Blanco and Juan Encarnacion...

[flavum]

There are a lot of teams who will have interest in De Aza. Just because you don't like them, greg, does not mean that they do not have value.

 

It will be interesting to see what the Sox get for him. I really don't see them getting more than a mid-range prospect, or a run-of-the-mill bullpen arm.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Viciedo is only 24 years old. His age fits right into the 'new core' of young players. I know he has been the every day LF two years now, but the dude has potential to be a very dangerous hitter.

 

It really makes no sense to carry along De Aza anymore. I'm hoping we can possibly get a young reliever in return for him.

 

This.

 

My view of Viciedo has fallen after this season, but I still think he can be a productive bottom of the order hitter. No reason to trade him when he is 25 and still learning, unless you get a solid return of the same value. Plus it's not like the Sox have anyone knocking on the door as far as OF replacements go. If Thompson, Mitchell, or Walker would have broke out last year, I would be way more willing to move Viciedo, but right now he is a serviceable MLB OF'er with the potential to be more.

[ILMOU]

This.

 

My view of Viciedo has fallen after this season, but I still think he can be a productive bottom of the order hitter. No reason to trade him when he is 25 and still learning, unless you get a solid return of the same value. Plus it's not like the Sox have anyone knocking on the door as far as OF replacements go. If Thompson, Mitchell, or Walker would have broke out last year, I would be way more willing to move Viciedo, but right now he is a serviceable MLB OF'er with the potential to be more.

This is a salient point.

 

Also, we have more to gain from DV potential improvement, however remote the possibility, than anything a trade would get us at this point.

[Lemon_44]

Not even a question in my mind. You keep Viciedo and play him everyday. How come I get the feeling if Dayan was on KC, AZ, or some other team, many would be hoping he'd be a trade target for Hahn.

 

He has a ton of upside and was really pretty good the second half of last year.

[rowand's rowdies]

Keep Viciedo AND De Aza, Adam Eaton is a balls to the wall player, and pays for it. He was out for a good chunk of last year. We will need De Aza, he's got a reasonable contract, and it a top 10 4th OF who can play any OF position. No need to trade low.

 

What if Hahn can somehow trade Dunn and the DH spot all of a sudden has an opening (platoon w Konerko, yes I know RH/RH) and we can play De Aza in the OF and let him bat 9th as the 2nd leadoff man.

 

Viciendo has shown streaks where he hits 4-6 HRs in as many games, is 24, and has his Cuban power bash hermano coming over. Let's let it ride on Red (Cuba). We can always trade them midseason for more anyway.

Edited December 19, 2013 by rowand's rowdies

[Rowand44]

Keep Viciendo AND De Aza, Adam Eaton is a balls to the wall player, and pays for it. He was out for a good chunk of last year. We will need De Aza, he's got a reasonable contract, and it a top 10 4th OF who can play any OF position. No need to trade low.

 

What if Hahn can somehow trade Dunn and the DH spot all of a sudden has an opening (platoon w Konerko, yes I know RH/RH) and we can play De Aza in the OF and let him bat 9th as the 2nd leadoff man.

 

Viciendo has shown streaks where he hits 4-6 HRs in as many games, is 24, and has his Cuban power bash hermano coming over. Let's let it ride on Red (Cuba). We can always trade them midseason for more anyway.

I'm fine keeping De Aza around but not as a 4th of, that kills his value. Despite the low points of De Aza that people on this board remember he's still a good player who graded as a + player last year and he should have value if we attempt to move him. Trade him or play him but don't make him a 4th of.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Rowand44

[flavum]

Viciendo? What is this, 2009?

[hammerhead johnson]

He just needs to learn how to be more selective on a consistent basis.

 

Oh god, how many more times are we gonna have to hear this crap.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Sox definitely need De Aza's lefthanded bat and speed. Sox definitely need Viciedo to hit but he'll be a Trumbo type if he isn't already .Davidson if he pans out is slow and might be a 1st baseman /DH in the making . Abreu isn't fast also might be a DH though my personal feeling is he will be fine as a fielder.

 

Got to keep at least one Cuban for Abreu's sake but Sox also might want to get rid of Alexei since he's getting up there in age and is $10M a yr. now.

 

If we keep De Aza he cuts into Viciedo playing time unless Eaton goes to the minors. And now that we know he is'nt much of a basestealer his speed can be better served against only certain pitchers or taking an extra base , something Viciedo won't be doing.

 

Viciedo can be beastly eventually but without a position.

 

Hahn's got his hands full now trying to figure this s*** out. I think eventualy De Aza, Viciedo and Alexei all get moved , one of them before the others if Hahn can get a decent return. We'll know more when we find out how Abreu handles ML pitching.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

As I've said, Viciedo has more value to us as a DH than a LF. Not only does he hurt us defensively, but I think as solely a DH, he may be a better hitter than he is now, focusing 100% on being a better hitter, not a better fielder. And after this season, he moves right in to that DH role with no one else in our system in line to fill it.

 

Wait until AFTER 2015 to decide what to do with Tank. If he thrives as a fulltime DH, great. If not, then cross that bridge.

[Reddy]

marry, bang or kill?

 

 

hmmm....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

definitely bang.

[Vance Law]

Unless we get a really good trade offer, have him and De Aza split time in left field. Dunn will not play the whole season with the Sox (except in the very unlikely event they're actually competing). It doesn't make sense to desperately unload De Aza or Viciedo when there will be an open spot halfway through the season at the latest, sooner if any one of 7 players gets injured. What is the argument for dumping an asset before opening day that you're going to wish you had halfway through the season.

 

If it's no big deal for the Yankees to have 15 outfielders on their roster (Beltran, Suzuki, Gardner, Ellsbury, Wells, not even counting Soriano), or the Dodgers with Kemp, Ethier, Crawford, Puig, it's no big deal for the Sox to carry an extra guy/insurance policy for half a season.

[2nd_city_saint787]

The problem with a platoon is, what way do you go with it?

 

In 2013, Viciedo had better numbers against RHP than ADA did, but sucked against LHP.

 

In 2012, Viciedo murdered LHP but sucked against RHP.

 

I think you've gotta give the full time job to Dayan and hope he puts it all together. If he puts it together the same way Dom Brown did (look at their splits, they're progressing the same way) we could be talking about a guy who hits .270 with 30 bombs.

 

 

[Balta1701]

As I've said, Viciedo has more value to us as a DH than a LF. Not only does he hurt us defensively, but I think as solely a DH, he may be a better hitter than he is now, focusing 100% on being a better hitter, not a better fielder. And after this season, he moves right in to that DH role with no one else in our system in line to fill it.

 

Wait until AFTER 2015 to decide what to do with Tank. If he thrives as a fulltime DH, great. If not, then cross that bridge.

I'd say wait until at least 2014 to decide whether to move him to DH as well.

 

He was, like almost everyone else on this team, a more reliable fielder in 2012 than in 2013. Usually 23 year olds don't obviously get worse in the field when they get to their 2nd year at a position, they're expected to get better. He didn't, but then again he was on a team where it seemed like everyone in the field also got worse.

 

Even if he doesn't have good range, his throwing arm makes up for quite a few mistakes out there. He can be an average defender in LF or RF if he has poor range and a great throwing arm.

 

If he keeps getting worse out there...fine, move him to DH once Dunn is out of the way...but we should also ask who in the world is coaching this kid if he keeps getting worse in the field as he gets more experience, because that's not how it's supposed to go.

[Dick Allen]

I'd say wait until at least 2014 to decide whether to move him to DH as well.

 

He was, like almost everyone else on this team, a more reliable fielder in 2012 than in 2013. Usually 23 year olds don't obviously get worse in the field when they get to their 2nd year at a position, they're expected to get better. He didn't, but then again he was on a team where it seemed like everyone in the field also got worse.

 

Even if he doesn't have good range, his throwing arm makes up for quite a few mistakes out there. He can be an average defender in LF or RF if he has poor range and a great throwing arm.

 

If he keeps getting worse out there...fine, move him to DH once Dunn is out of the way...but we should also ask who in the world is coaching this kid if he keeps getting worse in the field as he gets more experience, because that's not how it's supposed to go.

He can be Carlos Lee part 2. A converted 3B, who will never be a very good LF, but he can throw and that has offset at least some shortcomings defensively. Obviously, getting to CLee's level offensively is going to be tough, but look at CLee's walk rate as a youngster. The talent is there, it's just a question of whether or not he will put it together. Not unlike several of the players everyone is excited to have added to the roster.

[Balta1701]

He can be Carlos Lee part 2. A converted 3B, who will never be a very good LF, but he can throw and that has offset at least some shortcomings defensively. Obviously, getting to CLee's level offensively is going to be tough, but look at CLee's walk rate as a youngster. The talent is there, it's just a question of whether or not he will put it together. Not unlike several of the players everyone is excited to have added to the roster.

Was Lee's arm anywhere near Viciedo's? I don't recall it being that way, and if I'm right then if Viciedo could catch the ball as often as Carlos Lee, he'd be a much more effective fielder because he'd pick up some extra assists and he'd cut down on a lot of people taking extra bases.

[Dick Allen]

Was Lee's arm anywhere near Viciedo's? I don't recall it being that way, and if I'm right then if Viciedo could catch the ball as often as Carlos Lee, he'd be a much more effective fielder because he'd pick up some extra assists and he'd cut down on a lot of people taking extra bases.

No, Lee was a bad fielder, but did make all the routine plays, something as you pointed out, would really help Viciedo.

 

It is funny the both were 3B, who were converted to LF who eventually probably should be 1B/DH. Lee was a better baserunner before he got really big.

[SoxnGiants]

I'm not sure last year's tinkering helped him. Really odd to see him struggle with LHP's last year after killing them previously. If he can figure it out and maintain his .725 ish OPS against RHP I think he's a pretty productive hitter. I don't think those are unreasonable assumptions either.

[RockRaines]

He can be Carlos Lee part 2. A converted 3B, who will never be a very good LF, but he can throw and that has offset at least some shortcomings defensively. Obviously, getting to CLee's level offensively is going to be tough, but look at CLee's walk rate as a youngster. The talent is there, it's just a question of whether or not he will put it together. Not unlike several of the players everyone is excited to have added to the roster.

Their ages/production line up pretty well, which could mean this is the year he breaks out since he was supposed to last year.

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure last year's tinkering helped him. Really odd to see him struggle with LHP's last year after killing them previously. If he can figure it out and maintain his .725 ish OPS against RHP I think he's a pretty productive hitter. I don't think those are unreasonable assumptions either.

Last year was really weird for him with the bat. We saw him for about 2 periods get into a really good groove where he actually would do exactly what we've all asked him to do, lay off bad pitches and take the occasional walk if pitchers won't pitch to him, but he couldn't keep it up either time. One of them was right when he came back from that oblique injury, but then bad habits returned for June, and then he resumed hitting in August when the team hit that winning streak.

 

If you watched him it's like seeing a guy taking strides but then focusing on something else and forgetting what was working the last week.

[Rowand44]

Was Lee's arm anywhere near Viciedo's? I don't recall it being that way, and if I'm right then if Viciedo could catch the ball as often as Carlos Lee, he'd be a much more effective fielder because he'd pick up some extra assists and he'd cut down on a lot of people taking extra bases.

Lee had one of the worst arms I've ever seen.

[ILMOU]

Tank might be a guy who could really benefit from better conditioning. Not holding my breath, but would like to see a 20lbs lighter version at some point. Bound to improve his defense and baserunning.

 

[GreenSox]

No offense, but what team would trade for either of Viciedo/DeAza? I mean what team would be thinking either of those guys is attractive to make a deal for?

De Aza's offensive numbers aren't bad.