Hahn's next move?

[The Ultimate Champion]

Personally I think that unless you get an MLB-proven young player (who would of course be very expensive) the C situation is pretty much addressed. Loabton excites me like cauliflower in my food. I'd rather we get no MLB backup guy than get someone like that. I'm not sure there's anything left to do there if you can't land a big fish.

 

Then there's the IF sitaution/bench. This would sort itself out pretty well with a trade of Alexei and/or Gordon, but there are other smaller options like dumping Dunn to keep Kepp, dumping Kepp, etc. that could happen if the Sox eat cash. Maybe Gillaspie goes, but I think the Sox would rather keep him as a 1B/3B/LH PH type, and I'd say he makes more sense than Kepp does at this point. Also I'm not sure anyone should be penciling Davidson in for the Opening Day roster at this point.

 

There's there's the SP situation which looks like 3 lefties plus Johnson and some sort of battle between Paulino and Rienzo, but I don't think it would be shocking if the Sox brought in someone else. Rienzo = bleh IMO, Paulino may not be ready, and the Sox might want to use those guys more to push Johnson than anything else.

 

Then there's the DeAza situation with Viciedo looking like he'll take that PT from him. Currently with the bench Jordan Danks doesn't have a spot, which on the surface isn't much of a problem however it is nice to have a true CF and OF on the bench, not just a UT IF being your only real OF bench option.

 

Lastly, the Downs signing pushes Leesman and Veal into a competion with Rodriguez and others, but a small move for another LH project ala Borchard for Thornton/Gload for Sisco/Guerrier for Marte would still make a lot of sense even with Veal out of options.

 

There are probably some other things I'm missing too. So what happens next?

[ILMOU]

C, not nearly "addressed" imo, and I agree with you on Lobaton.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[Buehrle>Wood]

If anything it's catcher. Hahn isn't clueless. He knows you can't do worse than Tyler Flowers.

[Jerksticks]

Personally I think that unless you get an MLB-proven young player (who would of course be very expensive) the C situation is pretty much addressed. Loabton excites me like cauliflower in my food. I'd rather we get no MLB backup guy than get someone like that. I'm not sure there's anything left to do there if you can't land a big fish.

 

Then there's the IF sitaution/bench. This would sort itself out pretty well with a trade of Alexei and/or Gordon, but there are other smaller options like dumping Dunn to keep Kepp, dumping Kepp, etc. that could happen if the Sox eat cash. Maybe Gillaspie goes, but I think the Sox would rather keep him as a 1B/3B/LH PH type, and I'd say he makes more sense than Kepp does at this point. Also I'm not sure anyone should be penciling Davidson in for the Opening Day roster at this point.

 

There's there's the SP situation which looks like 3 lefties plus Johnson and some sort of battle between Paulino and Rienzo, but I don't think it would be shocking if the Sox brought in someone else. Rienzo = bleh IMO, Paulino may not be ready, and the Sox might want to use those guys more to push Johnson than anything else.

 

Then there's the DeAza situation with Viciedo looking like he'll take that PT from him. Currently with the bench Jordan Danks doesn't have a spot, which on the surface isn't much of a problem however it is nice to have a true CF and OF on the bench, not just a UT IF being your only real OF bench option.

 

Lastly, the Downs signing pushes Leesman and Veal into a competion with Rodriguez and others, but a small move for another LH project ala Borchard for Thornton/Gload for Sisco/Guerrier for Marte would still make a lot of sense even with Veal out of options.

 

There are probably some other things I'm missing too. So what happens next?

I would guess Dunn is sent packing. His presence represents the recent failures of the team, and without his departure, I feel like the FO can't truly sell this team as a fresh look...to the majority of the fanbase.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I would guess Dunn is sent packing. His presence represents the recent failures of the team, and without his departure, I feel like the FO can't truly sell this team as a fresh look...to the majority of the fanbase.

Please be right.

 

And I completely agree. Fans hate Dunn.

[GGajewski18]

Personally I think that unless you get an MLB-proven young player (who would of course be very expensive) the C situation is pretty much addressed. Loabton excites me like cauliflower in my food. I'd rather we get no MLB backup guy than get someone like that. I'm not sure there's anything left to do there if you can't land a big fish.

 

Then there's the IF sitaution/bench. This would sort itself out pretty well with a trade of Alexei and/or Gordon, but there are other smaller options like dumping Dunn to keep Kepp, dumping Kepp, etc. that could happen if the Sox eat cash. Maybe Gillaspie goes, but I think the Sox would rather keep him as a 1B/3B/LH PH type, and I'd say he makes more sense than Kepp does at this point. Also I'm not sure anyone should be penciling Davidson in for the Opening Day roster at this point.

 

There's there's the SP situation which looks like 3 lefties plus Johnson and some sort of battle between Paulino and Rienzo, but I don't think it would be shocking if the Sox brought in someone else. Rienzo = bleh IMO, Paulino may not be ready, and the Sox might want to use those guys more to push Johnson than anything else.

 

Then there's the DeAza situation with Viciedo looking like he'll take that PT from him. Currently with the bench Jordan Danks doesn't have a spot, which on the surface isn't much of a problem however it is nice to have a true CF and OF on the bench, not just a UT IF being your only real OF bench option.

 

Lastly, the Downs signing pushes Leesman and Veal into a competion with Rodriguez and others, but a small move for another LH project ala Borchard for Thornton/Gload for Sisco/Guerrier for Marte would still make a lot of sense even with Veal out of options.

 

There are probably some other things I'm missing too. So what happens next?

 

I would think the catcher position isn't filled yet. I hope we can acquire a young catcher to fit into this young core that Hahn is building. Grandal and Rosario are on my list.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see any of Dunn, Keppinger, Gillaspie, De Aza and Beckham traded.

 

I definitely see Downs and Veal as the lefties in the bullpen.

 

Also, with next year's pitching class, I can see Hahn going after Scherzer, Shields or Bailey for the rotation.

 

 

 

[bear_brian]

There was some discussion a few weeks ago about Houston's possible interest in Dunn, since he is from Texas. Would a package of Dunn (with a Sox salary subsidy), Carlos Sanchez and Viciedo be anywhere close to allowing us to get Jason Castro??

[GGajewski18]

There was some discussion a few weeks ago about Houston's possible interest in Dunn, since he is from Texas. Would a package of Dunn (with a Sox salary subsidy), Carlos Sanchez and Viciedo be anywhere close to allowing us to get Jason Castro??

 

I don't think so.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I would guess Dunn is sent packing. His presence represents the recent failures of the team, and without his departure, I feel like the FO can't truly sell this team as a fresh look...to the majority of the fanbase.

 

 

The same fan base that doesn't watch the team play in person? I wouldn't be making moves to appease the fan base because fans are generally stupid. I don't expect Dunn to be gone. Nobody is going to take Dunn's entire salary and it doesn't make sense to pay part of the contract to get a C rated prospect in return. In my opinion, the only option is to let Dunn play in the first half and hope that he hits enough homers to deal him at the deadline. It's not like he's blocking someone.

[Rowand44]

The same fan base that doesn't watch the team play in person? I wouldn't be making moves to appease the fan base because fans are generally stupid. I don't expect Dunn to be gone. Nobody is going to take Dunn's entire salary and it doesn't make sense to pay part of the contract to get a C rated prospect in return. In my opinion, the only option is to let Dunn play in the first half and hope that he hits enough homers to deal him at the deadline. It's not like he's blocking someone.

This.

[GreenSox]

The other side to look at, since we are retooling, is what player do we have that others might want.

I come back to Beckham. Despite the derision he receives, he's not that bad and might have had an uptick last year (a little hard to tell, considering the injuries).

A team like Toronto may want him, we may be willing to trade him, so that sort of deal wouldn't surprise me.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I would try to get something a better, but I would have no problem with Lobaton as the starting catcher. If he comes anywhere close to that .745 ops he put up last year against RHP that would be huge. Send em Kepp back and call it a day.

 

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

I'm all for a Lobaton-Phegley platoon.

[Andy the Clown]

There was some discussion a few weeks ago about Houston's possible interest in Dunn, since he is from Texas. Would a package of Dunn (with a Sox salary subsidy), Carlos Sanchez and Viciedo be anywhere close to allowing us to get Jason Castro??

 

I doubt people around the league think as highly of Carlos Sanchez as we do.

[Andy the Clown]

I would continue to try to trade ADA, Dayan, and/or Beckham for the best deal you can get.

 

I'd try to dump Keppinger and Dunn for nothing.

 

We haven't addressed the catching situation at all. Something will be done. Just a matter of timing.

[Chisoxfn]

If Hahn got Castro for Dunn I'd give him a big fat kiss on the lips!!! Loved Castro and stanford and would love him on the sox. Obviously would mean so sent cash plus something good along with dunn...pinch me...I am delusional.

[chitownsportsfan]

IMO getting anything other than a "C" level prospect for Dunn, without sending out a ridiculous amount of cash, like 30 million or so, is a pipe dream. Dunn is what he is at this point, his absolute upside is a 2 WAR player, maybe 3 if you squint really hard and blame the appendix, hitting instruction, etc for his recent poor years. His middle case scenario is a barely better than replacement level 1B, that's...not valuable at all, unless you find a trading partner that has a huge hole at 1B/DH and needs an extra 1 or 2 wins to try and get into the playoffs.

 

At this point I'd just keep Dunn, relegate him to a rather strict platoon with Paulie and see if you can regain some value before the trade deadline. I would have preferred not to have signed Konerko but at this point you might as well try and make use of his roster spot by spotting Dunn against LHP. This assumes of course that De Aza is getting moved and that Viciedo is in their plans for every LF.

 

If Viciedo somehow gets benched in favor of De Aza or Konerko against LHP I'm going to be very upset, but I don't think Hahn and Robin are that dumb. I hope they're not.

[southsider2k5]

IMO getting anything other than a "C" level prospect for Dunn, without sending out a ridiculous amount of cash, like 30 million or so, is a pipe dream. Dunn is what he is at this point, his absolute upside is a 2 WAR player, maybe 3 if you squint really hard and blame the appendix, hitting instruction, etc for his recent poor years. His middle case scenario is a barely better than replacement level 1B, that's...not valuable at all, unless you find a trading partner that has a huge hole at 1B/DH and needs an extra 1 or 2 wins to try and get into the playoffs.

 

At this point I'd just keep Dunn, relegate him to a rather strict platoon with Paulie and see if you can regain some value before the trade deadline. I would have preferred not to have signed Konerko but at this point you might as well try and make use of his roster spot by spotting Dunn against LHP. This assumes of course that De Aza is getting moved and that Viciedo is in their plans for every LF.

 

If Viciedo somehow gets benched in favor of De Aza or Konerko against LHP I'm going to be very upset, but I don't think Hahn and Robin are that dumb. I hope they're not.

 

Dunn is only due $15 million.

[chitownsportsfan]

s*** for some reason I thought he was signed through next year too, at 15m, well that makes trading him a bit easier although it also means you're only saving 7 million or so if you trade him at the deadline. Man, if Dunn was even 3/4 of the player he was in Cincy for the Sox that would have been a great contract.

 

Still one of the more bizarre cases of a player just completely cratering after a long run of success I've seen.

[ChiSox59]

s*** for some reason I thought he was signed through next year too, at 15m, well that makes trading him a bit easier although it also means you're only saving 7 million or so if you trade him at the deadline. Man, if Dunn was even 3/4 of the player he was in Cincy for the Sox that would have been a great contract.

 

Still one of the more bizarre cases of a player just completely cratering after a long run of success I've seen.

 

While not as good as he was earlier in his career, Dunn has been pretty close to as advertised the past two seasons. 2011 was obviously an epic failure, but the guy has blasted 75 home runs the past two seasons. That's Adam Dunn.

[Jerksticks]

While not as good as he was earlier in his career, Dunn has been pretty close to as advertised the past two seasons. 2011 was obviously an epic failure, but the guy has blasted 75 home runs the past two seasons. That's Adam Dunn.

The fact that he might be extra motivated this year can only help us. Unless he goes into a colossal Dunn-like whiff fest of a tailspin from the pressure of playing for a new contract. Beat that shift buddy!

[brian310]

While not as good as he was earlier in his career, Dunn has been pretty close to as advertised the past two seasons. 2011 was obviously an epic failure, but the guy has blasted 75 home runs the past two seasons. That's Adam Dunn.

 

I just checked his stats. In his career in Cincinnati, he hit 50 points higher than in Chicago. I wouldn't mind him as much if he hit about .250

[chitownsportsfan]

While not as good as he was earlier in his career, Dunn has been pretty close to as advertised the past two seasons. 2011 was obviously an epic failure, but the guy has blasted 75 home runs the past two seasons. That's Adam Dunn.

 

Look a tad beyond HRs. His wRC+ in 2012 was 115, in 2013 it was 105. In comparison his last three seasons in Cincy: 140, 132, 136. That's a pretty big dropoff in production, coupled with his move to DH, it's completely neutered his value. And hey, if we ignore that season with the wRC 60, one of the worst seasons in the history of baseball...

 

He's been awful, there's no way around it. Rob Deer didn't have a lot of value despite quite a few HRs, and neither does Adam Dunn.

 

If you had told anyone in baseball that Adam Dunn, who had posted 5 straight years above a wRC+ of above 125, and above that in 7 of the 8 previous years, including years of 142,142, 136, 138 -- would go 60, 110, and 105 in three years in Chicago they'd have laughed in your face and then probably, more seriously said, "so what, he tore his oblique or something, blew out his knee?"

 

It's just inexplicable how bad he's been given the lack of injury.

 

Anyways, thread drift, it's been a good offseason next move should be to move De Aza and/or Dunn.

Edited December 22, 2013 by chitownsportsfan

[The Ultimate Champion]

At this point I'd just keep Dunn, relegate him to a rather strict platoon with Paulie and see if you can regain some value before the trade deadline. I would have preferred not to have signed Konerko but at this point you might as well try and make use of his roster spot by spotting Dunn against LHP. This assumes of course that De Aza is getting moved and that Viciedo is in their plans for every LF.

I agree with everything you have posted in this thread save for this paragraph here. I think you've shown just how fruitless and (IMO) backwards it would be to try to bleed a little value out of Dunn at this point. Beating a dead horse is one thing, but breeding a dead horse is another. Sox shouldn't try to breed their dead horses.

 

Dunn is going to eat up PA for no reason. And honestly, I can't see how there will be another position player on our active roster coming out of ST who doesn't deserve the PA over Dunn. Even Jordan Danks, Connor Gillaspie, Leury Garcia, etc. can be valuable bench players for us. If Flowers/Phegley/Nieto are going to full-out bust then it's better to let them prove it, and you can give some of those PA to one of those guys. Keppinger, if he's here, at least plays multiple positions so the PA for him are important as at least he can keep our defenders fresh. Even Paulie, who will be on his farewell tour, is better off standing up there a couple times a week and taking an ovation than Dunn in standing up there with his donkey ass getting ready to strike out again. I also can think of about 3 guys at least who should/likely will be in Charlotte to start the year that could do more with those PA once they are called up.

 

I can see trying to milk DeAza a little bit, that's fine. Then dump Dunn and give those AB to DeAza. No matter what happens the Sox are going to have to eat almost all, of not all, of his salary to move him, and when they do it they're not getting jack in return. Might as well do it sooner rather than later and open up the playing time.

 

God I hope that guy is next on the chopping block. I'll be easily 3-4 times happier to see him gone than Linebrink, and holy s*** was that Linebrink dump an incredible day to be a Sox fan.

[The Ultimate Champion]

If Hahn got Castro for Dunn I'd give him a big fat kiss on the lips!!! Loved Castro and stanford and would love him on the sox. Obviously would mean so sent cash plus something good along with dunn...pinch me...I am delusional.

Dunn + all his salary is the 4th player we add to that deal because our FO would rather keep Montas. Without Q we'd have to give them a haul. I'd do it though, I'd love to see that guy here. Hahn would extend him for like 8 years $35M total or something completely ridiculous, and all of our dreams would come true.