Hahn's next move?

[Balta1701]

That is fair, and most likely correct; but if 2014 is strictly a "see what we got" dead/wasted year, then De Aza as well as Dunn, Alexei, Gillaspie and Keppinger have all GOTS to go... and PK should have never been brought back. Semien would need to play every day.

 

But this just isn't what is going to happen, so why not keep the perfect 4th outfielder, at least for two or three months?

He's not the perfect 4th outfielder, particularly given his issues with "keeping focused" that we saw last year. We have a pretty darn ideal one in Jordan Danks. De Aza is a solid 3rd/corner OF on a team that needs one and has other guys who carry most of the load.

[Dick Allen]

He's not the perfect 4th outfielder, particularly given his issues with "keeping focused" that we saw last year. We have a pretty darn ideal one in Jordan Danks. De Aza is a solid 3rd/corner OF on a team that needs one and has other guys who carry most of the load.

In what world is De Aza not perfect, but Jordan Danks "pretty darn ideal"? I seem to recall Jordan having his own baserunning problems in the past, and he is not nearly the offensive player De Aza is. He is much better with the glove, I will give you that, but Danks is no kid. He is older than Beckham.

[Eminor3rd]

In what world is De Aza not perfect, but Jordan Danks "pretty darn ideal"? I seem to recall Jordan having his own baserunning problems in the past, and he is not nearly the offensive player De Aza is. He is much better with the glove, I will give you that, but Danks is no kid. He is older than Beckham.

 

I think he's implying that De Aza wouldn't preform as well in a part-time role, not that Jordan Danks is a better player overall.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think he's implying that De Aza wouldn't preform as well in a part-time role, not that Jordan Danks is a better player overall.

Yes. Also, $.

 

[caulfield12]

He's not the perfect 4th outfielder, particularly given his issues with "keeping focused" that we saw last year. We have a pretty darn ideal one in Jordan Danks. De Aza is a solid 3rd/corner OF on a team that needs one and has other guys who carry most of the load.

 

 

Like the Cardinals, although that ship has sailed with Bourjos now likely in CF.

 

Of course, Holliday and probably Craig would be on the corners, so there's the additional issue of forcing him into CF, where he doesn't belong. He should be in left.

 

 

The Pirates would have made sense last year, but not now.

Edited December 30, 2013 by caulfield12

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think Jordan Danks has a chance to play himself into more playing time if he's good enough, so Jordan has a shot at raising his value while also being a cheap, serviceable 4th OF.

 

OTOH DeAza is a pretty hard player to predict & he's just getting more expensive in arb. Even with a nice year, you're still looking at a LF who is getting closer to FA, so the opportunity for DeAza to increase his value that significantly I think is pretty small.

 

On the whole though, DeAza is the type of player who fits in with the idea of rebuilding but not at the cost of totally unwatchable baseball. He shouldn't be dumped, and even though he's just a LF he could be a fit for any number of teams in either league around the deadline. If Hahn is getting low-balled then you keep DeAza and you take his AB from Dunn and/or Keppinger, not any of the young guys who could be a part of the new core.

[Eminor3rd]

I think Jordan Danks has a chance to play himself into more playing time if he's good enough, so Jordan has a shot at raising his value while also being a cheap, serviceable 4th OF.

 

OTOH DeAza is a pretty hard player to predict & he's just getting more expensive in arb. Even with a nice year, you're still looking at a LF who is getting closer to FA, so the opportunity for DeAza to increase his value that significantly I think is pretty small.

 

On the whole though, DeAza is the type of player who fits in with the idea of rebuilding but not at the cost of totally unwatchable baseball. He shouldn't be dumped, and even though he's just a LF he could be a fit for any number of teams in either league around the deadline. If Hahn is getting low-balled then you keep DeAza and you take his AB from Dunn and/or Keppinger, not any of the young guys who could be a part of the new core.

 

This is all pretty spot on, IMO. De Aza isn't likely going to increase his value with his play, but his value may be increased by the situation changing -- like if a team really needs a cheap, solid OF at the deadline.

[GreenSox]

Frankly, with this outfield, no he shouldn't.

 

Which guy under 25 shouldn't be out there every day?

 

Jordan Danks is actually the perfect backup OF for this team. He brings defense at all 3 positions and nothings going to be shaken up if he's on the bench. De Aza is exactly the opposite, he's a tolerable starter on a number of teams in the big leagues. He should get at bats...and this team has none to spare out there.

You can use him for pinch hitting, to give each guy a day off ever week, maybe some DH once in a while. He should be used and not just for that Sunday line-up deal.

Ideally, we'd move Dunn and that will open more at bats for guys we need to primp and sell-off.

Edited December 30, 2013 by GreenSox

[Eminor3rd]

Personally, and I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, I'd rather flip Viciedo for a similarly wild-cardy post-hype catching prospect and extend De Aza for something like 3/$15m to be our LF until a prospect pushes him out. I think having a perfectly average-ish LH veteran bat will add some stability to a lineup that may be in flux for the next couple years. Slot him in 7th and let Eaton and Avisail turn into guys toward the top of the order. I think ADA's bat will be perfectly serviceable in that role for the next few years, and I think he'll play an average to above-average LF.

 

Even if you're higher on Viciedo than I am, no player is ever likely to reach his ceiling -- he'll probably end up a fairly one dimensional hitter that plays bad defense for a couple years and then turns into an average-ish DH. I'm not sure that is going to be extremely valuable for us in the future now that we're committed to Abreu and now that the entire league is increasingly enamored with using the DH as a super-sub rest position.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Eminor3rd

[max power]

Its not like dayan's defense is so poor that it would exclude him from being a part of that super sub rest type DH.

[GreenSox]

I don't like prematurely selling low on these guys with high ceilings. players get better when they are 26, 27 and 28. Look at Donaldson for the As last year.

We know what De Aza is and it's not that hard to find.

[Balta1701]

You can use him for pinch hitting, to give each guy a day off ever week, maybe some DH once in a while. He should be used and not just for that Sunday line-up deal.

Ideally, we'd move Dunn and that will open more at bats for guys we need to primp and sell-off.

Quite simply, this would be a really poor use of De Aza. Maybe on a very compeitve team with a solid but elderly or injury prone of, but this just doesn't fit these guys.

[Balta1701]

I think he's implying that De Aza wouldn't preform as well in a part-time role, not that Jordan Danks is a better player overall.

De Azas poor start last year fits with this as well, it took him 1.5 months to really find a hitting groove.

[GREEDY]

I'd really like to keep De Aza unless he really nets something useful.

 

I think the days of average or even good players starting every single day (especially in the outfield) are over. I think you will need to be an elite talent to see more than 500 plate appearances in a year. With the help of advanced metrics, scouting, technology, prognostication and player specialization, the age of the platoon is upon us. So, unless you project both Viciedo & Garcia as elite stars, I don't think it would be "stunting their growth" to sit one or the other for De Aza in unfavorable match ups.

 

Also, De Aza would be the main injury replacement for all three starting outfielders, and the indirect second backup (via shuffling someone else to DH) for the 1B/DH situation. So, even if a guy wanted to play all three of our young outfielders every single day, I still think it is unlikely that De Aza wouldn't find his way into the lineup often, due to injury alone.

 

I think De Aza's ceiling is in a different stratosphere than Danks', and would strongly prefer him.

[Vance Law]

Quite simply, this would be a really poor use of De Aza. Maybe on a very compeitve team with a solid but elderly or injury prone of, but this just doesn't fit these guys.

 

Perhaps, but a) for how long? and b) what's the difference?

 

a) What percentage likelihood do you think there is that Dunn finishes the 2014 season with the Sox? I'd put it at close to zero he's here past the all-star break. So we're talking about half a season where there's some shuffling of 4 outfielders before a roster spot opens up. As I've mentioned before, the Dodgers and Yankees sure see this set-up as feasible and with some much higher profile outfielders.

 

b)

I see zero reason for Davidson (or Semien for that matter) to start the season in the big leagues. I see zero downside to having "too many players" (aka options) in the middle of a roster turnaround like this. I see no necessary positional changes prior to opening day other than perhaps a catcher upgrade. If a very good deal comes along for one of our guys, that's great. If it doesn't, there's no downside in waiting until some other team (or our own) has a need due to injury. Dunn is gone by midseason. Konerko's gone at the end of the year and I really can't see Keppinger playing the 2015 season with the Sox- if he hasn't improved his value before then I really assume he'll be dumped on whoever takes him. That's 3 spots I fully expect to open up in the next calendar year, along with Gillaspie I bet, once some team develops a need for a 3Bman/platoon partner. No need to hustle De Aza out the door.

[Eminor3rd]

Its not like dayan's defense is so poor that it would exclude him from being a part of that super sub rest type DH.

 

Idk man.

[oldsox]

Perhaps, but a) for how long? and b) what's the difference?

 

a) What percentage likelihood do you think there is that Dunn finishes the 2014 season with the Sox? I'd put it at close to zero he's here past the all-star break. So we're talking about half a season where there's some shuffling of 4 outfielders before a roster spot opens up. As I've mentioned before, the Dodgers and Yankees sure see this set-up as feasible and with some much higher profile outfielders.

 

b)

I see zero reason for Davidson (or Semien for that matter) to start the season in the big leagues. I see zero downside to having "too many players" (aka options) in the middle of a roster turnaround like this. I see no necessary positional changes prior to opening day other than perhaps a catcher upgrade. If a very good deal comes along for one of our guys, that's great. If it doesn't, there's no downside in waiting until some other team (or our own) has a need due to injury. Dunn is gone by midseason. Konerko's gone at the end of the year and I really can't see Keppinger playing the 2015 season with the Sox- if he hasn't improved his value before then I really assume he'll be dumped on whoever takes him. That's 3 spots I fully expect to open up in the next calendar year, along with Gillaspie I bet, once some team develops a need for a 3Bman/platoon partner. No need to hustle De Aza out the door.

Vance, if Davidson is not ready for prime time, then we paid too much for him, IMO. I look for Addison Reed to have a big year for D-backs.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Vance, if Davidson is not ready for prime time, then we paid too much for him, IMO. I look for Addison Reed to have a big year for D-backs.

 

I think barring an injury or just some historically bad spring by Matty D, aka Lettuce, he's getting on this team.

[Jake]

Not much left for Davidson to prove in AAA.

 

You can't just trade ADA for nothing, but Dayan's development is paramount here. The "bad" version of him is really a quite useful player and he doesn't have to reach his ceiling to be great.

[Balta1701]

I think barring an injury or just some historically bad spring by Matty D, aka Lettuce, he's getting on this team.

"Would we keep Gillaspie as the starting 3b if he and Davdison have similar spring numbers? Would you release him if both of them hit .400 in the spring and no trades wind up available?"

 

If your answer to those isn't "yes absolutely" then you need to move Gillaspie beforehand, because the team gave up a fortune to get his MLB ready replacement. It's really that simple, if we go into ST with both and Davidson wins , right now gillaspie is gone.

[Vance Law]

Not much left for Davidson to prove in AAA.

 

I don't quite get this sentence that I see on the board a lot. Who has what to prove and where is not the only factor in making roster decisions. Hahn will not be fined by the league for violating the "stuff left to prove clause" if this 22 year old starts in AAA.

 

Also, stuff he has left to prove:

An .830 OPS in the PCL from a third baseman is not exactly superstar. As I've noted before, Gillaspie bested that. Our new light hitting center fielder put up a .995 OPS in that league. All reports also suggest he's not yet a gold glover either.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I don't quite get this sentence that I see on the board a lot. Who has what to prove and where is not the only factor in making roster decisions. Hahn will not be fined by the league for violating the "stuff left to prove clause" if this 22 year old starts in AAA.

 

Also, stuff he has left to prove:

An .830 OPS in the PCL from a third baseman is not exactly superstar. As I've noted before, Gillaspie bested that. Our new light hitting center fielder put up a .995 OPS in that league. All reports also suggest he's not yet a gold glover either.

If Davidson has a better spring than Connor are you prepared to release Gillaspie for nothing?

[Vance Law]

If Davidson has a better spring than Connor are you prepared to release Gillaspie for nothing?

 

I don't think the small sample size of spring training is completely determinative unless it's a very extreme difference. Do you think Davidson will put up a .736 OPS against right handers over a full year next year?

 

But if they were to make Davidson the starter out of spring training they may as well send Keppinger plus $7.5 million to who'll ever take him. He would literally have no purpose on the team at that point.

[professa]

I don't think the small sample size of spring training is completely determinative unless it's a very extreme difference. Do you think Davidson will put up a .736 OPS against right handers over a full year next year?

 

But if they were to make Davidson the starter out of spring training they may as well send Keppinger plus $7.5 million to who'll ever take him. He would literally have no purpose on the team at that point.

 

That's not fair. Conor is left handed, so a better question to ask is if Davidson can put up a .736 ops against lefties. And I think he can. Conor could be an effective bench player. I'd keep him. Cheap and controllable.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

"Would we keep Gillaspie as the starting 3b if he and Davdison have similar spring numbers? Would you release him if both of them hit .400 in the spring and no trades wind up available?"

 

If your answer to those isn't "yes absolutely" then you need to move Gillaspie beforehand, because the team gave up a fortune to get his MLB ready replacement. It's really that simple, if we go into ST with both and Davidson wins , right now gillaspie is gone.

 

I don't understand this comment at all.