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Hahn's next move?


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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:27 PM)
If Davidson is not on the opening day roster, it isn't because of Konerko. It would be because of Davidson.

 

Why would Garcia sit for Konerko? That makes zero sense. Abreu might get a break, but the White Sox gave him $68 million. He is going to play. The guy who will have his time cut is Adam Dunn vs. LHP. I don't think anyone is opposed to that. All other complaining, is complaining to complain. It really is ridiculous. If the Sox win 85 games, they should have lost more so they would get a better draft pick. If they have Konerko on the bench, it's going to really hurt them because a guy who most likely should be in AAA anyway isn't going to be on the roster. Give it a rest. Konerko on the roster hampers Ventura a little bit, but not enough to make the difference between going to the playoffs and having a miserable season.

 

 

I disagree. If Konerko isn't on the roster it is possible (not ideal) that Gillaspie, Davidson & Keppinger all make the opening day roster. In fact, I think as the team currently is assembled (minus PK) that would be the most likely scenario. With Konerko, it is impossible.

 

I don't see how a lineup with De Aza & Viciedo in the corners with Abreu at 1st and PK as the designated hitter isn't possible? If PK isn't on the team it allows Viciedo to DH... but I understand that is a stretch and would only cost Garcia a few appearances but it was worth pointing out.

 

Unless one of the kids flat out has a horrible spring and just cannot be started at the major league level, I don't see how PK won't take at-bats from one of them.

Edited by GREEDY
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:36 PM)
The roster will take care of itself. I don't know why you think Davidson absolutely shouldn't start the year in AAA.

I don't know why we should have to release 2 players and pay $10 million for the privileged in order to keep a backup DH on the roster if Davidson does earn the spot.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:38 PM)
I don't know why we should have to release 2 players and pay $10 million for the privileged in order to keep a backup DH on the roster if Davidson does earn the spot.

Who are they releasing that will cost them $10 million? Keppinger isn't getting released.

 

Why do you make things up just to complain?

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QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:38 PM)
I disagree. If Konerko isn't on the roster it is possible (not ideal) that Gillaspie, Davidson & Keppinger all make the opening day roster. In fact, I think as the team currently is assembled (minus PK) that would be the most likely scenario. With Konerko, it is impossible.

 

I don't see how a lineup with De Aza & Viciedo in the corners with Abreu at 1st and PK as the designated hitter isn't possible? If PK isn't on the team it allows Viciedo to DH... but I understand that is a stretch and would only cost Garcia a few appearances but it was worth pointing out.

 

Unless one of the kids flat out has a horrible spring and just cannot be started at the major league level, I don't see how PK won't take at-bats from one of them.

If the White Sox biggest problem in 2014 is Paul Konerko on the roster, everyone should get season tickets. The playoffs are a lock.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:42 PM)
Who are they releasing that will cost them $10 million? Keppinger isn't getting released.

 

Why do you make things up just to complain?

So they're going to keep the right hand hitting backup who plays a poor 3b because he makes $10 million over the next 2 years and release the much younger, left handed hitting guy who fits the roster much better.

 

Well that's a relief.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:43 PM)
So they're going to keep the right hand hitting backup who plays a poor 3b because he makes $10 million over the next 2 years and release the much younger, left handed hitting guy who fits the roster much better.

 

Well that's a relief.

What is it about Conor Gillaspie's .695 OPS and awful glove that makes you excited to watch him play? Besides if Gillaspie is 1/10th as good as you think, there is no reason to release him, teams will be lining up to acquire him.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:47 PM)
What is it about Conor Gillaspie's .695 OPS and awful glove that makes you excited to watch him play? Besides if Gillaspie is 1/10th as good as you think, there is no reason to release him, teams will be lining up to acquire him.

What is it about Paul Konerko's .669 OPS and awful glove that makes people excited to watch him play?

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:48 PM)
What is it about Paul Konerko's .669 OPS and awful glove that makes people excited to watch him play?

Track record. Reduced role. Even in a down year an over .900 OPS vs. LHP, which also keeps Adam Dunn out of the line up vs. the same LHP. Captain. Good influence on others. I heard him talking, saying playing less will allow him to help these guys more.

 

Besides, if you want Gillaspie on the team, he plays 3B and 1B and would be taking ABs away from Davidson and Abreu. I thought that was a no no in your book.

Edited by Dick Allen
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To call Conor Gillaspie's glove "awful" is quite a stretch. I'd say "solid" or "adequate" or "a tick above Keppinger." He was having an excellent year until a weird, De Aza-esque run of errors late in the season

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QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 01:53 PM)
To call Conor Gillaspie's glove "awful" is quite a stretch. I'd say "solid" or "adequate" or "a tick above Keppinger." He was having an excellent year until a weird, De Aza-esque run of errors late in the season

Not a stretch. It was awful the last 3 or 4 months of last year, which is exactly what his reports said he was before he was acquired. Look at the 2013 BP.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:52 PM)
Track record. Reduced role. Even in a down year an over .900 OPS vs. LHP, which also keeps Adam Dunn out of the line up vs. the same LHP. Captain. Good influence on others. I heard him talking, saying playing less will allow him to help these guys more.

 

Besides, if you want Gillaspie on the team, he plays 3B and 1B and would be taking ABs away from Davidson and Abreu. I thought that was a no no in your book.

You want that list for Gillaspie? Youth. Ability to play multiple positions. Hits left handed making him a much more useful piece off the bench for an extremely right handed team. 2 more years pre-arbitration. Not at his prime years/ceiling years yet. .738 OPS against righties, which to this team is a lot more valuable than a guy pinch hitting for lefties in the lineup that we don't have. Able to be traded during the season.

 

Not a strongly negative value player last year. Not a leader on a team that acted completely leaderless. Hopefully not influencing others the way the team's leaders did last year. Not paid the price of a reliever for the privileged.

 

I'd rather have Gillaspie play 25 games backup up Abreu and Davidson or even giving one of them a break against a tough righty than Konerko giving Adam Dunn a break against a tough lefty.

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Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Brent Morel, ....just some names that BA had ranked just as high as Matt Davidson as prospects at one time. It's really not that crazy to think Charlotte might be a logical place for him to start the 2014 season.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:04 PM)
Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Brent Morel, ....just some names that BA had ranked just as high as Matt Davidson as prospects at one time. It's really not that crazy to think Charlotte might be a logical place for him to start the 2014 season.

And so therefore he should not have any chance to earn the job.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:04 PM)
Joe Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Brent Morel, ....just some names that BA had ranked just as high as Matt Davidson as prospects at one time. It's really not that crazy to think Charlotte might be a logical place for him to start the 2014 season.

 

That may be true, but I think they acquired him with the intention of him being the OD 3B.

 

No harm going to spring training with everyone--Keppinger and Gillaspie included, and make some deals in March if Davidson plays like he's ready.

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QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:07 PM)
No harm going to spring training with everyone--Keppinger and Gillaspie included, and make some deals in March if Davidson plays like he's ready.

I think there's a lot of harm in this actually. That's not a whole lot of at bats to go around in the spring to judge a guy by, at least not against the better competition. And you're assuming a deal will be available in March, which is a roll of the dice.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:05 PM)
And so therefore he should not have any chance to earn the job.

More hyperbole. I already stated it is all up to him. The White Sox traded one of their better players to get him, and they would like nothing more to have him playing every day batting in the middle of the order for them, but he does have his warts. AAA may be where he needs to be in April.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:08 PM)
More hyperbole. I already stated it is all up to him. The White Sox traded one of their better players to get him, and they would like nothing more to have him playing every day batting in the middle of the order for them, but he does have his warts. AAA may be where he needs to be in April.

So he should clearly have 2 guys without options in his way. Because that's the sign you give to a guy you want him to earn the big league spot.

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In his last prospect year, Baseball America had this to say:

 

Gillaspie has raised his stock by making huge strides at third base, tirelessly working to clean up his footwork and improve his throwing accuracy. While fielding roughly the same amount of chances in three successive seasons, he has cut his errors from 27 to 17 to 11. Fresno manager Steve Decker estimated that Gillaspie made at least 20 diving plays for him in 2011 [. . .] He might not be a candidate to take Pablo Sandoval's job, but he should be ready to bring a little fire to the Giants' bench in 2012.

 

Baseball Prospectus gave him a 1.9 FRAA (fielding runs above average), which is not great but is indeed above average. FanGraphs had him as -1.1 runs above average. His -2.4 UZR/150 (not "awful" in itself) is almost completely dragged down by his 16 errors, which at times appeared rather flukey and, at worst, correctable. Even if not, there are no metrics calling what he did last year bad. His worst statistic is the not-all-that-well-regarded Defensive Runs Saved, from which he got a -4, which is between what Bill James calls average and below average. They use the word "awful" to describe a player that gets -15, FWIW

 

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:09 PM)
So he should clearly have 2 guys without options in his way. Because that's the sign you give to a guy you want him to earn the big league spot.

You have been complaining about Konerko. He has nothing to do with Davidson making the team. Keppinger is either going to be on the team or traded, not released, and you seem to be the president of the Conor Gillespie fan club. So now you are even complaining about the things you want.

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QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 02:12 PM)
In his last prospect year, Baseball America had this to say:

 

 

 

Baseball Prospectus gave him a 1.9 FRAA (fielding runs above average), which is not great but is indeed above average. FanGraphs had him as -1.1 runs above average. His -2.4 UZR/150 (not "awful" in itself) is almost completely dragged down by his 16 errors, which at times appeared rather flukey and, at worst, correctable. Even if not, there are no metrics calling what he did last year bad. His worst statistic is the not-all-that-well-regarded Defensive Runs Saved, from which he got a -4, which is between what Bill James calls average and below average. They use the word "awful" to describe a player that gets -15, FWIW

He started the year great, but became horrible. When I get home I will break out my BP and give you what they said about his glove coming into 2013. It wasn't pretty.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2014 -> 03:12 PM)
You have been complaining about Konerko. He has nothing to do with Davidson making the team. Keppinger is either going to be on the team or traded, not released, and you seem to be the president of the Conor Gillespie fan club. So now you are even complaining about the things you want.

Keppinger, Gillaspie, and Davidson could all have made this team, giving the White Sox useful bench and backup options throughout their infield, if Paul Konerko was not retained. That would easily have been the best scenario given that Keppinger is under contract and cannot be traded or released without the White Sox eating a large portion of his salary based on his performance last year.

 

Should Davidson not be ready in the spring, that would give the Sox the opportunity to bring along a backup SS other than the emergency ones they'd have, such as Elmore, who can also play middle IF and would be a very useful utility player overall.

 

That's the obvious setup for both winning games, long term development of players, and maximizing the resources we currently have (i.e. potentially making Keppinger more easily traded if he gets off to a good start).

 

None of those things were the White Sox's priority in bringing back Konerko as a player.

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