The Ultimate Champion Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Age 17: 5.1IP in VESL Age 18: DNP Age 19: 55IP in DOSL Age 20: 50.1IP in DOSL Age 21: 38.2 IP combined between Rk & A Age 22: 102IP in A+ with a 1.118 WHIP, 7.6 H/9, 0.4 HR/9, 2.5 BB/9, 7.8 K/9, 3.14 K/BB Age 23: 48.2IP in AA with a 1.171 WHIP, 8.0 H/9, 0.2 HR/9, 2.6 BB/9, 7.6 K/9, 2.93 K/BB 136.1IP in MLB with a 1.350 WHIP, 9.4 H/9, 0.9 HR/9, 2.8 BB/9, 5.3 K/9, 1.93 K/BB 185IP total between AA & MLB Age 23: 200.0IP in MLB with a 1.220 WHIP, 8.5 H/9, 1.0 HR/9, 2.5 BB/9, 7.4 K/9, 2.93 K/BB Okay so where's this regression going to come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) If you notice it actually looks like Q's MLB numbers have been trending "down" toward those he put up in AA and prior to that, what he put up in A+. If this guy keeps getting better and we sell now, we're not selling high, we're selling waaaaay f***ing low. Edited January 20, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I agree with raBBit on this argument. I question if Quintana can sustain his success due to the fact he doesn't have that good of stuff, but he is also a damn good pitcher and competitor. I'd love to keep him and EJ, but if we had to trade one to get more offensive help, I'd prefer to trade Quintana because I feel you can get more for him now and that I do feel Johnson can wind up being the better player. Either way, it would be a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 08:28 PM) The good news is generally when you regress, it is downward. Regression, in the mathematical sense. Like, towards the "true" value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 It's like people forget that this team's best pitcher of the 2000s had well below average stuff. It's also like the same pitching coach is working with Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 09:19 PM) Buehrle lead the league in WHP two years before Cooper was even the Sox pitching coach. You can't use him for an example with anything. Mark Buehrle is one in a million. When a pattern emerges, then yes you can use him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 09:19 PM) Buehrle lead the league in WHP two years before Cooper was even the Sox pitching coach. You can't use him for an example with anything. Mark Buehrle is one in a million. Wasn't he the minor league roving instructor or something like that though? I'm sure he worked with him at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) If he's bad but talented you keep him, see if he can be mediocre. If he's mediocre but talented you keep him, see if he can become good. If he's good and talented but doesn't have jaw-dropping stuff then you trade him, because his value can't be higher. And if he's good and does have jaw-dropping stuff then you still trade him but for a zillion prospects, because you're rebuilding, and that's what rebuilding teams are supposed to do. And then when you lose you fire your manager. Here we have the makings of the Tampa Bay Rays Version 2.0 Edited January 21, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Let's say the Sox don't land Tanaka which is a very realistic possibility, any ideas as to what Hahn might try next ? By going after Tanaka they've shown they have money to spend on the right player tho this doesn't mean they will spend it. I ask because I haven't given it any thought since the Tanaka rumors picked up and the subject of Castro has been beaten up pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 11:38 PM) Let's say the Sox don't land Tanaka which is a very realistic possibility, any ideas as to what Hahn might try next ? By going after Tanaka they've shown they have money to spend on the right player tho this doesn't mean they will spend it. I ask because I haven't given it any thought since the Tanaka rumors picked up and the subject of Castro has been beaten up pretty good. Whether or not we acquire MT, I say we package a back-end pitcher and De Aza for a catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 11:46 PM) Whether or not we acquire MT, I say we package a back-end pitcher and De Aza for a catcher. I think as far as catchers go we have what we have for now. The catcher subject has been beaten into the ground. Trying to think of other ideas like possibly trading ADA or Tank for a left handed hitting LF with some pop or for a CF and use Eaton in LF. Not sure who to be honest since I haven't put any real thought into it. There are guys like Beckham, Keppinger and Gillespie that could be traded (Would be difficult) for something ( wouldnt be much) to open up space for some of our younger talent like Semien, Davidson and Sanchez . Even Ramirez is a trade possibility. Just looking to hear some realistic trade possibilities as far as teams and players coming to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 11:38 PM) Let's say the Sox don't land Tanaka which is a very realistic possibility, any ideas as to what Hahn might try next ? By going after Tanaka they've shown they have money to spend on the right player tho this doesn't mean they will spend it. I ask because I haven't given it any thought since the Tanaka rumors picked up and the subject of Castro has been beaten up pretty good. I'm okay with losing out on Tanaka if it means we then sign Garza, Jimenez, Burnett, or Richard. Then trade Erik Johnson and De Aza for a catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) I'm okay with losing out on Tanaka if it means we then sign Garza, Jimenez, Burnett, or Richard. Then trade Erik Johnson and De Aza for a catcher. I can see Garza being a realistic possibility since he won't cost a draft pick and while I like what I see in Johnson I'm not sold on him or Rienzo so I'm open to trading either one. Once Tanaka ssigns,the competition for the remaining starting pitching free agents could make them costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that people are underestimating Johnson. His ceiling is a number two starter. If we don't sign Tanaka, it'd be hard pressed to ship out Johnson. We're pretty much set for this initial phase of the rebuild in 2014 if we lose out on this free agent signing. Garza doesn't fit the plan IMO. The starting pitcher class in 2015 is stronger. It's most possible we see a DeAza trade - though I now won't be surprised if it comes mid season along with some other moves. Tanaka is an important move and when you take the big picture implications into mind, it's easy to see why the front office has placed such a high priority in the negioations. Adding another big RH arm next to Sale really kicks the rebuild into 6th gear overdrive. Bottom line, any moves going forward this offseason will be supplemental IMO. We're going to give everyone else time to build value or put it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 01:54 AM) I think that people are underestimating Johnson. His ceiling is a number two starter. If we don't sign Tanaka, it'd be hard pressed to ship out Johnson. We're pretty much set for this initial phase of the rebuild in 2014 if we lose out on this free agent signing. Garza doesn't fit the plan IMO. The starting pitcher class in 2015 is stronger. It's most possible we see a DeAza trade - though I now won't be surprised if it comes mid season along with some other moves. Tanaka is an important move and when you take the big picture implications into mind, it's easy to see why the front office has placed such a high priority in the negioations. Adding another big RH arm next to Sale really kicks the rebuild into 6th gear overdrive. Bottom line, any moves going forward this offseason will be supplemental IMO. We're going to give everyone else time to build value or put it together. EJ stays unless we sign Tanaka. Even with Tanaka, I'd be sad to part with EJ because with both I see the Sox having a rotation of two aces (Sale and Tanaka) with 3 #2 starters at their ceilings (Q, EJ, and Danks). Fortunately drafting Kolek or Hoffman would ease EJ's loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 09:19 PM) Buehrle lead the league in WHP two years before Cooper was even the Sox pitching coach. You can't use him for an example with anything. Mark Buehrle is one in a million. Don Cooper started in July of 2002. Buehrle pitched in 2000, but didn't become a full time starter until the disaster of the year that was 2001. Thus, it is literally impossible for him to lead the league in WHIP two years before Cooper was the pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 09:36 AM) Don Cooper started in July of 2002. Buehrle pitched in 2000, but didn't become a full time starter until the disaster of the year that was 2001. Thus, it is literally impossible for him to lead the league in WHIP two years before Cooper was the pitching coach. Cooper was also the White Sox minor league pitching coordinator from 1992-July 02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 For a pitcher without good stuff, Quintana makes a lot good hitters look really bad. Velocity is really overrated, but I'm hesitant to say that any LH starter that can run it up to 95 doesn't have good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) Let's see if Quintana averages 3.7 WAR over a 13 year stretch than you can compare the two. Buehrle had his 2nd and 4th best seasons in WAR in his first two seasons starting. The Sox have rescued plenty of pitchers over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) I'm okay with losing out on Tanaka if it means we then sign Garza, Jimenez, Burnett, or Richard. Then trade Erik Johnson and De Aza for a catcher. They aren't signing any of those guys by all indications. It is Tanaka, or no other pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) They aren't signing any of those guys by all indications. It is Tanaka, or no other pitchers. And what indications would those be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) And what indications would those be? Insiders have already said it is Tanaka or nothing. They aren't interested in any of the second tier starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) I agree with that and I am fan of Garza who isn't even going to require draft pick compensation. To me the plan is simple. It's wait and see approach. Hope that Sale and Quintana stay the same if not get better. Hope Erik Johnson mirrors Gavin Floyd numbers with a strong head on his shoulders. Hope John Danks regresses to his pre 5 year contract/pre shoulder surgery form. Give opportunities to Rienzo/Paulino/Surkamp and hope that Cooper can make another starter out of at least one of them. If all goes well we may be in the position to move a Quintana or Danks next offseason and look at a Bailey/Shields type to pair up with Sale. That doesn't make any sense, you are going to trade a SP so that you can sign a more expensive SP that may very well play worse in your park than your existing options? There is not a guy on the Sox I would not trade tomorrow for the right package of players, but moving a guy to replace him with a more expensive replacement is not a path to long term success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Insiders have already said it is Tanaka or nothing. They aren't interested in any of the second tier starters. Damn. Was really hoping to flip one of those signings at the break for some 'spects. Edited January 21, 2014 by Chilihead90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) I'm okay with losing out on Tanaka if it means we then sign Garza, Jimenez, Burnett, or Richard. Then trade Erik Johnson and De Aza for a catcher. Absolutely not. I wouldn't sign any of those nor trade E Johnson. That will put us right back in the cycle we've been in since the WS. Edited January 21, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.