Hahn's next move?

[witesoxfan]

He'll be on the hook for 2/22 after this season. I don't know, I feel like the Sox mo would be to try to get another Paulino type or give a guy like Beck a shot before bringing in the underwhelming Jackson.

 

Right, that's why you get the Cubs to eat some of the contract. If he's mediocre to bad, they're going to be actively seeking to get rid of him, like the Sox are with Keppinger and Dunn. Take him on for $5 mill a year and you could have a steal on your hands.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Dunn and Keppinger cost money.

 

You need two catchers.

 

Jordan Danks is the perfect 4th OF for an OF of Dayan-Eaton-Avi

Gillaspie has the brightest Sox future of all of these guys, and the most ability in the field. He's also tied for being the cheapest and just about tied as far as servicetime/years under control.

 

So you dump that guy to keep around a lesser player, just because you owe him money?

 

Really?

 

You guys just aren't understanding here. The money is already gone. No other team is obligated to pay it out. The Sox have no leverage in any trade negotiation. You can't *assume* you're going to be getting any of that back.

 

This thread is hopeless.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Right, that's why you get the Cubs to eat some of the contract. If he's mediocre to bad, they're going to be actively seeking to get rid of him, like the Sox are with Keppinger and Dunn. Take him on for $5 mill a year and you could have a steal on your hands.

Keppinger has uses in the field, you may be able to get some savings there.

 

Go ahead name a list of teams that would be interested in Dunn even at the league minimum. Remember that he has to play every day somewhere because his swing can't get any longer. Make a list. How many teams are there that will want this guy? He's a butcher and he sucks.

[witesoxfan]

Gillaspie has the brightest Sox future of all of these guys, and the most ability in the field. He's also tied for being the cheapest and just about tied as far as servicetime/years under control.

 

So you dump that guy to keep around a lesser player, just because you owe him money?

 

Really?

 

You guys just aren't understanding here. The money is already gone. No other team is obligated to pay it out. The Sox have no leverage in any trade negotiation. You can't *assume* you're going to be getting any of that back.

 

This thread is hopeless.

 

You can't polish a piece of s***. Gillaspie does not have a high ceiling and his future is either as a platoon partner on a bad team or a bench player on a good team. He's just a guy.

 

I like Gillaspie, and he has value, but IN THE WORST POSSIBLE CASE SCENARIO UNDER WHICH NO OTHER SCENARIOS HAVE PLAYED OUT AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT MATT DAVIDSON BE ON THE MAJOR LEAGUE ROSTER, designating Gillaspie for assignment is the right call.

[The Ultimate Champion]

30 starts, 3.66 ERA, 196.2 IP, 174 K, 57 BB

 

Honestly, if he has a mediocre season this year but is still showing good stuff, and the Sox could use a starter, that's a guy I could see the Sox possibly acquiring. Try and get the Cubs to eat $10-12 million of the deal.

Jackson did well under Coop. I was going to suggest that move earlier this offseason but didn't because I figured it would turn into this. I agree with you on something, wow.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You can't polish a piece of s***. Gillaspie does not have a high ceiling and his future is either as a platoon partner on a bad team or a bench player on a good team. He's just a guy.

 

I like Gillaspie, and he has value, but IN THE WORST POSSIBLE CASE SCENARIO UNDER WHICH NO OTHER SCENARIOS HAVE PLAYED OUT AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT MATT DAVIDSON BE ON THE MAJOR LEAGUE ROSTER, designating Gillaspie for assignment is the right call.

How much do quality corner IF options and LH sticks get on the open market? They get paid nicely as bench guys. Gillaspie is an athletic player who can do a few things, and yes, that is valuable. A lot more valuable than Dunn.

 

Don't count your Davidsons before they hatch. He's still a minor league player and for all we know your starting 3B of your 2015 Chicago White Sox may be one Connor Gillaspie, with Davidson in Charlotte floundering.

 

You DFA Dunn & you gain a 4-5 year piece potentially in Gillaspie, along with a more verstatile bench and a useful player.

 

This s*** is hilarious. I bet if Gillaspie were on another team & Hahn traded Dunn for him while eating a s***load of cash that this board would accept it. But because he's here he sucks. Why is that?

[witesoxfan]

How much do quality corner IF options and LH sticks get on the open market? They get paid nicely as bench guys. Gillaspie is an athletic player who can do a few things, and yes, that is valuable. A lot more valuable than Dunn.

 

Don't count your Davidsons before they hatch. He's still a minor league player and for all we know your starting 3B of your 2015 Chicago White Sox may be one Connor Gillaspie, with Davidson in Charlotte floundering.

 

You DFA Dunn & you gain a 4-5 year piece potentially in Gillaspie, along with a more verstatile bench and a useful player.

 

This s*** is hilarious. I bet if Gillaspie were on another team & Hahn traded Dunn for him while eating a s***load of cash that this board would accept it. But because he's here he sucks. Why is that?

 

Ryan Hannahan signed a 2 year, $4 million deal last year. He's a very comparable player.

 

I'm also not counting my "Davidsons," but he has a very high ceiling, as in a middle of the order bat. Hahn himself just yesterday said they are going to see a lot of him this year. That means they are going to see a lot of him next year. That means they value him moreso than they do Gillaspie.

 

I would love it if Hahn traded Dunn for a Gillaspie-ian player. I would love it it Hahn just got someone to eat $5 mill or so of Dunn's deal. But straight up eating $15 million is absolutely ridiculous when there's a move that costs less that can be made.

 

Look, I like Gillaspie, I'd love him on the bench for the next 5 years, and I'm sure they'll figure out a way to keep him on the roster. But the move the organization will make if they can't find a taker for some of these contracts will be to DFA him, just the same as they'll DFA Jordan Danks if they can't find a taker for De Aza or Viciedo.

[Dick Allen]

Davidson may be a great player, but here are 3 former White Sox 3B who were at least at one time ranked higher than Davidson ever was:

 

Josh Fields #45

Brent Morel #85

Mark Teahen #85

 

There are no guarantees.

[royoung]

How much do quality corner IF options and LH sticks get on the open market? They get paid nicely as bench guys. Gillaspie is an athletic player who can do a few things, and yes, that is valuable. A lot more valuable than Dunn.

 

Don't count your Davidsons before they hatch. He's still a minor league player and for all we know your starting 3B of your 2015 Chicago White Sox may be one Connor Gillaspie, with Davidson in Charlotte floundering.

 

You DFA Dunn & you gain a 4-5 year piece potentially in Gillaspie, along with a more verstatile bench and a useful player.

 

This s*** is hilarious. I bet if Gillaspie were on another team & Hahn traded Dunn for him while eating a s***load of cash that this board would accept it. But because he's here he sucks. Why is that?

 

Gillaspie had a nice April but was absolutely awful after that. He hit .241/.297/.400 after the All-Star break and had a .245/.305/.390 slash line over the whole year. He provides average defense at 3B, so no huge value there. His minor league numbers and his opportunities in SF/CHI has shown that he isn't capable of providing league average production at 3B. I don't mind him being on the bench and providing depth, but if Gillaspie is our 2015 3B this team is in serious trouble.

Edited February 6, 2014 by southside hitman

[witesoxfan]

Davidson may be a great player, but here are 3 former White Sox 3B who were at least at one time ranked higher than Davidson ever was:

 

Josh Fields #45

Brent Morel #85

Mark Teahen #85

 

There are no guarantees.

 

I absolutely agree, and I think that Davidson has the biggest bust potential out of anyone the Sox acquired this offseason. I also think, total value considered (offensively and defensively), he has the highest ceiling of any player the Sox acquired too.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Ryan Hannahan signed a 2 year, $4 million deal last year. He's a very comparable player.

 

I'm also not counting my "Davidsons," but he has a very high ceiling, as in a middle of the order bat. Hahn himself just yesterday said they are going to see a lot of him this year. That means they are going to see a lot of him next year. That means they value him moreso than they do Gillaspie.

 

I would love it if Hahn traded Dunn for a Gillaspie-ian player. I would love it it Hahn just got someone to eat $5 mill or so of Dunn's deal. But straight up eating $15 million is absolutely ridiculous when there's a move that costs less that can be made.

 

Look, I like Gillaspie, I'd love him on the bench for the next 5 years, and I'm sure they'll figure out a way to keep him on the roster. But the move the organization will make if they can't find a taker for some of these contracts will be to DFA him, just the same as they'll DFA Jordan Danks if they can't find a taker for De Aza or Viciedo.

So you're comfortable paying Dunn $10M to play elsewhere but paying him $14-14.5M to play elsewhere is out of the question? The Sox won't have to pay what another team offers, and he's a $500K-$1M player on the open market right now.

 

This is exactly where my problem lies. I do not believe that the $4-4.5M difference between Dunn getting dumped/DFAd in June/July rather than in Februrary/March is worth the consequences to the rest of the roster. Specifically that $4-4.5M difference is NOT worth taking away a roster spot from someone, nor is it worth dumping even a bench player who may have a future with us, and it is especially idiotic to force DeAza and Viciedo into a platoon situation to save that meager amount of money. Again, we're under budget according to Hahn and if the right deal comes along then there could be a lot more money available.

 

The only possible other reward aside from a small $$$ savings is the possibility that Dunn becomes a quality hitter again. But I think if you were going to bet on Dunn finding some level of production that would bring back a return so good that it would make it worth all the bad things that keeping him involves, I think those would some pretty long odds, probably odds akin to Paulino finishing top-5 in Cy Young voting or Davidson winning ROY honors AND making an All-Star team, etc. The results on Dunn have not been pretty and the numbers and age alone would seem to suggest a continued decline ahead. He also is uncomfortable playing here and will be getting reduced playing time, which although may have some potential platoon advantages, isn't going to keep his swing as fresh. I don't think it is realistic to expect a $$$$ savings AND talent return large enough to justify the impact of his PA on the roster, and I don't think it is intelligent to gamble on that happening, again, the odds are going to be pretty long.

[witesoxfan]

So in essence, you would be paying a bench guy $5 million for 200 plate appearances. People are complaining about Alejandro De Aza costing too much as a bench player and he's making $4.25 mill, and he's a far better and more valuable piece than Gillaspie.

 

Yes, I'm keeping Dunn over Gillaspie.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Let's say the Sox could eat all Dunn's salary except for the league minimum and trade him for a MR prospect like another team's Bassit or something who they wouldn't have to protect on the 40 and also pick up an INTL slot. So you'd essentially be buying a halfway decent spect and more spending cash in the INTL period so you could go over on a slot & sign a better prospect. Would you do that? I would. Great deal, and the roster squeeze is lessened tremendously.

[The Ultimate Champion]

So in essence, you would be paying a bench guy $5 million for 200 plate appearances. People are complaining about Alejandro De Aza costing too much as a bench player and he's making $4.25 mill, and he's a far better and more valuable piece than Gillaspie.

 

Yes, I'm keeping Dunn over Gillaspie.

You're getting 5 years control over Gillaspie.

 

You're also giving more PA to Viciedo & DeAza, getting them regular positions which they need.

 

You're also looking at a bench that can actually rest some guys because there's only 1 DH on the team instead of 2.

 

Divide that $$$ up among all those things and it's a pittance.

[Dick Allen]

I absolutely agree, and I think that Davidson has the biggest bust potential out of anyone the Sox acquired this offseason. I also think, total value considered (offensively and defensively), he has the highest ceiling of any player the Sox acquired too.

My point is Charlotte may not be the worst place for him to hang for a while. I do think some are expecting too much too soon. All 3 of the guys I mentioned did have some early success at the major league level, but then it all went wrong. Very wrong.

 

I think it would behoove the Sox to make sure he is ready, at least to handle some failure, before he is handed the job, no matter what the other options at 3B happen to be.

[witesoxfan]

You're getting 5 years control over Gillaspie.

 

You're also giving more PA to Viciedo & DeAza, getting them regular positions which they need.

 

You're also looking at a bench that can actually rest some guys because there's only 1 DH on the team instead of 2.

 

Divide that $$$ up among all those things and it's a pittance.

 

Yeah, I'm done arguing this. You are trying to make me into some anti-Conor Gillaspie person when I've indicated that isn't the case. You just dislike Adam Dunn so much that you want to eat his salary when that is absolutely ridiculous. Brent Morel had a similar rookie season to Gillaspie, and Josh Fields had a better one. Those guys were long gone.

 

He's a nice bench player. I'm sure Steven Tolleson would be too. Bench guys aren't hard to find. Saving $5 million is something that is hard to come by.

[southsider2k5]

My point is Charlotte may not be the worst place for him to hang for a while. I do think some are expecting too much too soon. All 3 of the guys I mentioned did have some early success at the major league level, but then it all went wrong. Very wrong.

 

I think it would behoove the Sox to make sure he is ready, at least to handle some failure, before he is handed the job, no matter what the other options at 3B happen to be.

Davidson will determine that. The Sox traded for him, and traded a nice piece to get him. They would love nothing else than to have the kid hitting from day one to make the organization look good. There is literally no one of substance blocking him, IF he is successful this spring. If he hits and isn't Dayan Viciedo at 3B, he will be the opening day starter. If not, he goes to Charlotte, which isn't a bad thing either.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Yeah, I'm done arguing this. You are trying to make me into some anti-Conor Gillaspie person when I've indicated that isn't the case. You just dislike Adam Dunn so much that you want to eat his salary when that is absolutely ridiculous. Brent Morel had a similar rookie season to Gillaspie, and Josh Fields had a better one. Those guys were long gone.

 

He's a nice bench player. I'm sure Steven Tolleson would be too. Bench guys aren't hard to find. Saving $5 million is something that is hard to come by.

Not only is it hard to come by, in Dunn's case, it's almost certainly unrealistic.

 

The money is guaranteed. f***ing over your roster on a hope & a prayer of saving a few dollars that you alone and no one else is obligated to pay is ridiculous. If Hahn calls the other 29 teams right now & says you can have Dunn at the league minimum, how much are you willing to give me, etc. and says I'm willing to talk INTL draft slots, unspectacular but solid prospects, A ballers, Rookie ballers, etc. then maybe you can even strike gold and get something of value that will end up worth more than that $5M or so, like say 4 years of a quality setup man or something at the price of 1.5 years of that same guy's FA market value.

[Balta1701]

Not only is it hard to come by, in Dunn's case, it's almost certainly unrealistic.

 

The money is guaranteed. f***ing over your roster on a hope & a prayer of saving a few dollars that you alone and no one else is obligated to pay is ridiculous. If Hahn calls the other 29 teams right now & says you can have Dunn at the league minimum, how much are you willing to give me, etc. and says I'm willing to talk INTL draft slots, unspectacular but solid prospects, A ballers, Rookie ballers, etc. then maybe you can even strike gold and get something of value that will end up worth more than that $5M or so, like say 4 years of a quality setup man or something at the price of 1.5 years of that same guy's FA market value.

Why do we think he hasn't done this already? Or at least done so with the handful of teams that could legitimately use a LH hitting DH (which is, admittedly, very few)?

[The Ultimate Champion]

Why do we think he hasn't done this already? Or at least done so with the handful of teams that could legitimately use a LH hitting DH (which is, admittedly, very few)?

I hope he has, we don't know who he is or isn't discussing trades on, etc.

 

I'm more disputing the notion that it shouldn't be done at all, that eating $$$ is bad, etc. It's already gone, and if anyone offers to take on a good chunk of Dunn's salary for us it will be a favor performed by another GM. Other teams don't exist to perform favors for the White Sox; you need something in return to make the favor worthwhile. What would the other team get in return for taking on Dunn? The risk of an OPS below .600, the risk of a sub-.210 BA and a sub-.330 OBP for a guy who can't play anywhere in the field even decently, etc. Vernon Wells is still a FA at the league minimum, I bet he's a better option than Dunn for most teams who might consider Dunn. Major salary relief probably isn't happening.

 

But if there is someone out there, great, do it. 2014 is the decision year on Viciedo and he needs EVERY chance to play. DeAza also, unlike Dunn, could be a useful trade piece around the deadline, especially if he's happy occupying LF & playing more relaxed. The bench needs versatility. If you absolutely have to eat Dunn then you do it, because you've already done it, and no one should be expected to come help you out & help you pay the guy. Not happening.

[greg775]

Gillaspie had a nice April but was absolutely awful after that. He hit .241/.297/.400 after the All-Star break and had a .245/.305/.390 slash line over the whole year. He provides average defense at 3B, so no huge value there. His minor league numbers and his opportunities in SF/CHI has shown that he isn't capable of providing league average production at 3B. I don't mind him being on the bench and providing depth, but if Gillaspie is our 2015 3B this team is in serious trouble.

 

Gillaspie is so ordinary (not that there's anything wrong with ordinary; he's still a big leaguer) that I want him gone even though he gave me one of my best nights of the summer. I was in Kauffman when he beat the Royals with a blast in the 13th. And I still don't like him. That's crazy.

I don't mind him sticking around as a utility, but we already got utility guys in Becks and Keppinger too. It is possible Davidson could stink and at this time next year I'll despise him as well. I will add this: Gillaspie's defense sucks.

Edited February 6, 2014 by greg775

[brian310]

Teahen definitely did not help us land Jaye and Webb. He was a throw in in the deal with Jackson and it helped Toronto make the blockbuster Rasmus deal.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Kenny knew the Cards weren't going to trade Rasmus without getting EJax in the deal, so he held up the Jays with the demand of taking on Teahen's contract, and it worked. In that deal everyone won: Jays got the player they wanted without having to give up top pieces from the farm, Kenny dumped Teahen and picked up a quality (back then) prospect in Stewart plus Frasor who turned into Jaye & Webb, and the Cards of course won the World Series. Rarely do 3-ways benefit all 3 parties, but that one did.

[Quin]

Kenny knew the Cards weren't going to trade Rasmus without getting EJax in the deal, so he held up the Jays with the demand of taking on Teahen's contract, and it worked. In that deal everyone won: Jays got the player they wanted without having to give up top pieces from the farm, Kenny dumped Teahen and picked up a quality (back then) prospect in Stewart plus Frasor who turned into Jaye & Webb, and the Cards of course won the World Series. Rarely do 3-ways benefit all 3 parties, but that one did.

 

Peavy trade benefitted all teams as well.

 

3 ways with the Sox leave everyone happy!

[brian310]

Kenny knew the Cards weren't going to trade Rasmus without getting EJax in the deal, so he held up the Jays with the demand of taking on Teahen's contract, and it worked. In that deal everyone won: Jays got the player they wanted without having to give up top pieces from the farm, Kenny dumped Teahen and picked up a quality (back then) prospect in Stewart plus Frasor who turned into Jaye & Webb, and the Cards of course won the World Series. Rarely do 3-ways benefit all 3 parties, but that one did.

 

Yeah I understand that taking on Teahen helped them land Jackson but that doesn't mean Teahen didn't had any actual value in the deal other than that. Who knows maybe without Teahen in the deal we could have gotten more than Frasor and Stewart and maybe we just settled on that as fair for the two as a package