Hahn's next move?

[caulfield12]

Who still needs a SS then?

 

I think Alexei would be a perfect fit for the Yankees. They have Kelly Johnson at 2B, nothing at 3B, Jeter at SS. They can play Alexei anywhere and make an improvement. Not sure what they would trade though.

 

 

They're not going to run off Jeter until he's leaving the SS position on his own terms. It's not going to be like Michael Young with the Rangers, where he was pushed/forced to 3B.

 

They just signed Brian Roberts for 2B, I'm guessing that Johnson and Brendan Ryan will be fighting it out at 3B (although I have no idea how much experience Johnson has at that position recently).

[caulfield12]

The problem continues to be roster spots. Right now, the guys we have under big league contract with no position are:

 

Gillaspie

Keppinger

De Aza

Dunn

 

Our options are to either dump 2 of them uncerimoniously or to send Eaton and Davidson to AAA regardless of what they do in Spring Training.

 

We have 4 guys on the bench right now who can't be sent to the minors. There's not even room for a backup catcher right now. As it stands right now, Davidson could hit .900 in spring training and we'd still have to send him to the minors just to carry a backup catcher.

 

"Dunn might bring something slightly better in July" doesn't matter right now. If we can save a couple million, get him off the roster and at least give us a way to carry a backup catcher.

 

This is another reason the Konerko thing in particular made little sense, it's forcing Hahn into some moves that he doesn't want to make or will be salary dumps.

 

I'm assuming if Davidson's ready to play, they're not going to be very concerned with Gillaspie's fate in terms of losing him or possible trade return.

 

Going by their history for the last 15 years or so, they're not going to trade Dunn until midseason.

 

So that means DeAza and Keppinger are the most likely to be jettisoned, logically.

 

In that universe, Konerko, back-up catcher, L. Garcia and ??? (probably DeAza) are your bench.

 

 

Keppinger and Gillaspie would be off the roster, as well as Jordan Danks. However, since DeAza has more trade value at the moment, it wouldn't be suprising if Gillaspie and DeAza were both gone and Hahn held onto Keppinger in an effort to see if he could increase his trade value this season.

 

I guess the big question is ROI...playing Keppinger at 3B in order to dump him for the best possible return and free up the position for Davidson OR keeping Gillaspie around and trying to get something back for him. I would take the risk of losing Gillaspie in order to save money by waiting for Keppinger to rebuild trade value.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I don't buy that the Sox will somehow force themselves to keep Dunn. That makes no sense in any way. He's not a draw, he's not going to help this team contend, and even if he has a good-for-2014-Dunn kind of year, whatever that is, who wants him? He needs to be out there every day in order for his BB and HR % to show up and so he's definitely not a bench bat, he adds nothing anywhere else on the diamond, and so the only teams who could have any interest would be AL teams needing a LH bat at the DH position with potentially a small opening at first. If you find the one team in July that needs Dunn, great, but where's your leverage? He'd never get claimed on waivers. You're stuck playing someone else's game, and why? You're not getting that good of a player in return in all likelihood.

 

Meanwhile, Gillaspie has a lot of value to us as a 1B/3B/LF? LH PH and spot starter. He could be somewhat similar to that guy we got from KC we had to have so badly (thanks Buddy) and as long as we're not handing him any guaranteed 3-year deals & as long as we just deal with the arb process, Gillaspie alone is probably better than anything we could expect from a midseason Dunn deal. And as for Keppinger, if we have to pay him, let's just keep him as insurance on our younger guys & take advantage of his versatility and veteran status, because it's not like we need to win anything in 2014. That versatility is probably better than anything we'd get out of Dunn at that point.

 

With DeAza also, I wonder if there could be teams low-balling Hahn in part due to Dunn's presence, knowing that Hahn has to dump someone. Rather than take less for DeAza you can just dump Dunn, keep DeAza as a LF/back-up CF/DH, with Viciedo getting a good number of AB at DH, and then you evaluate your bench after that. Jordan Danks wouldn't have a spot but with DeAza & Leury basically as extra OF you don't need to take him.

[The Ultimate Champion]

This is another reason the Konerko thing in particular made little sense, it's forcing Hahn into some moves that he doesn't want to make or will be salary dumps.

I love the Konerko move. It makes great sense to put a vet like that and a consummate pro on the bench to help a bunch of young hitters adjust. Great move for the future.

 

And Hahn's already stated that Dunn is going to fall in line. Nobody in the organization, apparently not even Dunn himself, wants that guy here. I hope he's gone, and I trust that the Sox will Linebrink him if they absolutely feel they have to - or maybe, they Andruw Jones him as the Dodgers did to get out of that deal. Right now Dunn is only taking a spot on the 40, but as it gets closer to ST, if he's still here, they're going to have to get thinking about letting him go.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Also when Dunn is gone I say forget the Dunn Appreciation Thread, you need a Hahn Appreciation Thread, a God Appreciation Thread, and a Sanity Appreciation Thread as well as a playing of Taps for all those poor mosquitos that guy swatted during his tenure here.

[greg775]

I'd hate to see him stop right now. I hope he pulls the trigger on a major trade. I know we have some lineup upgrades already if Eaton opens in CF and the new third baseman as well to go with Garcia for a full year in right, but I'd like to see a huge trade involving multiple players. Surely somebody wants Beckham, a former first rounder and some of you insist DeAza and Viciedo have value as well. I'd like to trade one of them.

How bout Beckham, Viciedo and a minor league pitching stud all in one package for some more good players?

 

If our new 3B and Eaton aren't ready for the majors, our team is gonna resemble last year's team so much. I'd say 90 plus losses will be a certainty.

 

I'm confident he'll make a good trade UNLESS our players have absolutely no value or trash value, which I guess, is possible.

I believe in Rick Hahn, though.

Edited December 28, 2013 by greg775

[Wanne]

I'd hate to see him stop right now. I hope he pulls the trigger on a major trade. I know we have some lineup upgrades already if Eaton opens in CF and the new third baseman as well to go with Garcia for a full year in right, but I'd like to see a huge trade involving multiple players. Surely somebody wants Beckham, a former first rounder and some of you insist DeAza and Viciedo have value as well. I'd like to trade one of them.

How bout Beckham, Viciedo and a minor league pitching stud all in one package for some more good players?

 

If our new 3B and Eaton aren't ready for the majors, our team is gonna resemble last year's team so much. I'd say 90 plus losses will be a certainty.

 

I'm confident he'll make a good trade UNLESS our players have absolutely no value or trash value, which I guess, is possible.

I believe in Rick Hahn, though.

 

If you go into next year with the mindset this team is going to be a contender I'm afraid you're going to be very disappointed. These moves were made for the future....not 2014.

[greg775]

If you go into next year with the mindset this team is going to be a contender I'm afraid you're going to be very disappointed. These moves were made for the future....not 2014.

 

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention.

Edited December 28, 2013 by greg775

[greg775]

I love the Konerko move. It makes great sense to put a vet like that and a consummate pro on the bench to help a bunch of young hitters adjust. Great move for the future.

 

And Hahn's already stated that Dunn is going to fall in line. Nobody in the organization, apparently not even Dunn himself, wants that guy here. I hope he's gone, and I trust that the Sox will Linebrink him if they absolutely feel they have to - or maybe, they Andruw Jones him as the Dodgers did to get out of that deal. Right now Dunn is only taking a spot on the 40, but as it gets closer to ST, if he's still here, they're going to have to get thinking about letting him go.

 

I think it's the same problem as last season. Sox can't dump him cause Jerry doesn't like paying for players who are on other teams. It's almost his unwritten policy. So Dunn is here until the final day of that contract mercilessly runs out. Or a team is willing to pay almost all of that deal and send us a couple low level prospects as well. Jerry isn't eating significant dollars on contracts.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I

[LittleHurt05]

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention.

 

most would argue that with Leyland gone, the Tigers are more dangerous. He consistently made bad in game decisions, notably having the #2 hitter bunt to set up an intentional walk to the best hitter in baseball.

 

And to answer your Sale question, the arm needs work to build endurance. If he skips 2014, he would be lucky to throw 150 innings in 2015. You can limit his starts, but his arm needs the work to stay strong.

[BlackSox13]

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention.

I think its due to question marks. We don't know how the youth will respond to a 162 game grind, Dunn is what he is, Danks is still trying to regain his old form, Beckham can't stay healthy long enough to show if he can live up to his expectations and we need production out of the catchers position. Just too many if's, maybe's and hopefully's right now to expect too much. Can't shut Sale or Q down cause its an obvious white flag on the 14 season which would hurt attendance even more than its been hurt already.

 

 

I think it's the same problem as last season. Sox can't dump him cause Jerry doesn't like paying for players who are on other teams. It's almost his unwritten policy. So Dunn is here until the final day of that contract mercilessly runs out. Or a team is willing to pay almost all of that deal and send us a couple low level prospects as well. Jerry isn't eating significant dollars on contracts.

Agreed. Best case is hope Dunn hits well enough to trade by the deadline or else we have to suffer to the bitter end. Just doesn't seem to be a market for him at this point.

[greg775]

most would argue that with Leyland gone, the Tigers are more dangerous. He consistently made bad in game decisions, notably having the #2 hitter bunt to set up an intentional walk to the best hitter in baseball.

 

Geez, tough crowd. I think "most" would say he was a great great manager and anything can happen in a short series.

[SouthsideDon48]

I'd hate to see him stop right now. I hope he pulls the trigger on a major trade. I know we have some lineup upgrades already if Eaton opens in CF and the new third baseman as well to go with Garcia for a full year in right, but I'd like to see a huge trade involving multiple players. Surely somebody wants Beckham, a former first rounder and some of you insist DeAza and Viciedo have value as well. I'd like to trade one of them.

How bout Beckham, Viciedo and a minor league pitching stud all in one package for some more good players?

 

If our new 3B and Eaton aren't ready for the majors, our team is gonna resemble last year's team so much. I'd say 90 plus losses will be a certainty.

 

I'm confident he'll make a good trade UNLESS our players have absolutely no value or trash value, which I guess, is possible.

I believe in Rick Hahn, though.

 

I love your enthusiasm, Greg, but I think we need to exercise some patience.

 

First off, lets just consider 2014 to be a "warm-up" season for Garcia, Abrue, Eaton, Davidson, Johnson, etc.

 

The best course of action for the Sox is to just let the team play and gain experience. If they happen to lose another 90 games again in 2014, then at least they will get another top draft pick in 2015. Losing in 2014 and getting another top draft pick in 2 years in a row will do wonders in helping this team improve. Even though the Sox wont have 1st pick, just look at where the Washington Nationals are nowadays after drafting Strasburg and Harper in back-to-back drafts. If the Sox do their homework and draft actual baseball players instead of football players with tools in the 2014 and 2015 drafts, then the Sox will be much better off for 2016 and beyond and they could be in the same situation where the Nationals are now: in playoff contention. Maybe they can compete in 2015, but my money is on 2016 with this current crop.

 

BTW, I think Jose Abrue is gonna be the best Hahn signing ever.

 

As for Adam Dunn, even though even Dunn himself wants to leave, I don't see any harm in keeping Dunn for 2014 and seeing if he builds enough value so that the sox can trade him at the july 2014 trade deadline for a prospect or 2. Hell, it'd be nice if they trade him to the Mariners at the deadline for a package such as Stefen Romero and Victor Sanchez.

Edited December 28, 2013 by SouthsideDon48

[caulfield12]

I love the Konerko move. It makes great sense to put a vet like that and a consummate pro on the bench to help a bunch of young hitters adjust. Great move for the future.

 

And Hahn's already stated that Dunn is going to fall in line. Nobody in the organization, apparently not even Dunn himself, wants that guy here. I hope he's gone, and I trust that the Sox will Linebrink him if they absolutely feel they have to - or maybe, they Andruw Jones him as the Dodgers did to get out of that deal. Right now Dunn is only taking a spot on the 40, but as it gets closer to ST, if he's still here, they're going to have to get thinking about letting him go.

 

Then why not just have Thome in that role?

 

It's not like Konerko has had a profound effect on Beckham, and that's the player he's most closely associated with in terms of giving hitting advice and sharing his wisdom/experience.

 

 

 

 

We didn't completely eat the Linebrink contract, and it was only about 1/3rd of what we're paying Adam Dunn for 2014. MacDougal's the only other recent example. Even when we had the opportunity with Teahen, we preferred to package him with Edwin Jackson so as not to eat salary.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Then why not just have Thome in that role?

 

It's not like Konerko has had a profound effect on Beckham, and that's the player he's most closely associated with in terms of giving hitting advice and sharing his wisdom/experience.

 

 

 

 

We didn't completely eat the Linebrink contract, and it was only about 1/3rd of what we're paying Adam Dunn for 2014. MacDougal's the only other recent example. Even when we had the opportunity with Teahen, we preferred to package him with Edwin Jackson so as not to eat salary.

A non-player in that role is a babysitter. There's also the chance that a healthy Paulie rebounds enough to be a contributor. We've all seen these extended struggles from Paulie before, and while his age is even more of a factor now, how many times have Sox fans insisted he was done only to be wrong? Not saying he'll end up as a regular, but he could help out a bit off the bench if healthy.

 

You're right on Linebrink, I just named him since I think that Dunn's situation is unprecedented here and Linebrink was probably the closest recent example of a 4-year deal which turned into an unmitigated disaster. But I would also add that the Sox current situation, if not unprecedented, is one we haven't seen in a very long time. The 2007 team was kind of a temporary rebuild year, but even that year we had more vets on the roster and higher expectations out of ST. Even though we lost some pieces, we had won 90 games the year before. I think in this circumstance the Sox would be amenable to ditch Dunn by any means necessary because they would understand the value of an extra spot on the 25-man roster & the negative trickle-down effect of keeping a massive turd in your jeans while you walk around the mall.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Geez, tough crowd. I think "most" would say he was a great great manager and anything can happen in a short series.

There is definitely something to be said about a guy who can manage egos properly on a team full of above average players with a very great ones on it as well. But I think you don't expect a hiccup there just because of the talent involved. However, when they hit a bad stretch as a team, then you just sit back, relax, strap it down, and see whether they can rebound or if they just unravel.

[Balta1701]

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention.

I don't think this staff is playoff-ready any more. At least not nearly where it was before Santiago was moved. Moving him was the right decision, but it creates a staff with an ace, a solid #2, 3 rookies and a couple guys coming off of injuries.

 

That's exactly the staff this team should run out there coming off a 99 loss season, a staff with a lot of long-term potential but a lot of question marks for the immediate future.

[Balta1701]

A non-player in that role is a babysitter. There's also the chance that a healthy Paulie rebounds enough to be a contributor. We've all seen these extended struggles from Paulie before, and while his age is even more of a factor now, how many times have Sox fans insisted he was done only to be wrong? Not saying he'll end up as a regular, but he could help out a bit off the bench if healthy.

 

You're right on Linebrink, I just named him since I think that Dunn's situation is unprecedented here and Linebrink was probably the closest recent example of a 4-year deal which turned into an unmitigated disaster. But I would also add that the Sox current situation, if not unprecedented, is one we haven't seen in a very long time. The 2007 team was kind of a temporary rebuild year, but even that year we had more vets on the roster and higher expectations out of ST. Even though we lost some pieces, we had won 90 games the year before. I think in this circumstance the Sox would be amenable to ditch Dunn by any means necessary because they would understand the value of an extra spot on the 25-man roster & the negative trickle-down effect of keeping a massive turd in your jeans while you walk around the mall.

One other big difference between right now and the situation with guys like Teahen is that the White Sox have already traded for the replacements for De Aza and Davidson without having roster spots available for them. I can't remember them having done that before, put themselves in a position where a major-league ready guy legitimately has no roster spot at the time the guy is acquired.

[Chicago White Sox]

One other big difference between right now and the situation with guys like Teahen is that the White Sox have already traded for the replacements for De Aza and Davidson without having roster spots available for them. I can't remember them having done that before, put themselves in a position where a major-league ready guy legitimately has no roster spot at the time the guy is acquired.

How there is no roster spot for Eaton? Even if we kept De Aza, we could simply send Jordan Danks down to AAA. Outside of injury, Eaton is our starting CF next year regardless if De Aza is on the team or not.

 

As for Gillaspie, it may not be a bad idea to start the season with Davidson in AAA. He wasn't that good at Reno, so I don't see how a little extra seasoning at Charlotte would hurt. That would also give the Sox's staff a little more time to evaluate Conor and see if he's worth holding onto for some sort of utility role.

[ptatc]

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore. If this team is going nowhere FOR CERTAIN, then why not shut down Sale until we're ready to contend. Just don't even pitch him. I mean he's developed. Why waste one pitch out of that arm if it's 100 percent certain we're not winning anything next season?? Before you blast me, I think it's a legitimate question. Maybe even leave Danks on the shelf all year, too. And Quintana. He's also been stretched out enough that he's major league ready for contention.

Physically, you cannot sit a pitcher for a year. It would be like taking a year off of running then deciding to run an ultra marathon. It would be impossible. You could however run a 6 or 7 man rotation or put the pitchers on an innings limit.

[Paulstar]

I don't think this staff is playoff-ready any more. At least not nearly where it was before Santiago was moved. Moving him was the right decision, but it creates a staff with an ace, a solid #2, 3 rookies and a couple guys coming off of injuries.

 

That's exactly the staff this team should run out there coming off a 99 loss season, a staff with a lot of long-term potential but a lot of question marks for the immediate future.

I don't think Santiago was ever the difference between a good or a great staff. I think having his name in the hat with Johnson, Rienzo, Paulino, and now Surkamp increased your odds of creating a great staff, but it was never a sure thing.

 

I kind of think that while everyone's eyes are on Tanaka, the White Sox should make a move to sign Garza. I doubt it will happen, but if you can get him on a reasonable contract (maybe a little more than what Danks got, like 4 years 60 million with an option for a 5th), having him at the top of the rotation with Sale along with Quintana, Danks, and Johnson at the back end... that could be one of the best in the league. Obviously I would rather have Tanaka, but thats definitely not happening with his price tag.

[brian310]

I don't think Santiago was ever the difference between a good or a great staff. I think having his name in the hat with Johnson, Rienzo, Paulino, and now Surkamp increased your odds of creating a great staff, but it was never a sure thing.

 

I kind of think that while everyone's eyes are on Tanaka, the White Sox should make a move to sign Garza. I doubt it will happen, but if you can get him on a reasonable contract (maybe a little more than what Danks got, like 4 years 60 million with an option for a 5th), having him at the top of the rotation with Sale along with Quintana, Danks, and Johnson at the back end... that could be one of the best in the league. Obviously I would rather have Tanaka, but thats definitely not happening with his price tag.

 

I don't think Garza is attached to a draft pick either.

[GreenSox]

I have one question for you guys who think it's determined the team will stink in 2014 ... why do we have this playoff-ready pitching staff for a team going nowhere? Why didn't we spend some cash like the Yankees to upgrade maybe two more positions go with these dandy trades and win our s*** division right now?? With Leyland gone, the Tigers will be nothing to fear anymore.

They lose Leyland, but we still have Ventura. Hahn has to get his man in there before the Sox make a serious move. But the Tigers window is starting to close.

Our starting staff will have at least 2 rookies or major reclamation projects (3 if you count Danks).

As for Dunn, he production is still productive, although a lot of people say his mere presence is a negative on work ethic and attitude...that production should allow us to move him in June or July.

We need to make a real productive trade of De Aza; and then final judgments on Viciedo and Beckham.

I can see competing in 15, but not 14.

[Paulstar]

One other big difference between right now and the situation with guys like Teahen is that the White Sox have already traded for the replacements for De Aza and Davidson without having roster spots available for them. I can't remember them having done that before, put themselves in a position where a major-league ready guy legitimately has no roster spot at the time the guy is acquired.

I think there is no doubt that Eaton will be the starting CF on opening day. As someone else said, Jordan Danks would get the boot, Viciedo would start in LF, and De Aza becomes your forth OF. However, that's obviously not that scenario the front office wants to see, but I think it is prepared for that in case they can't get back adequate value for one of Viciedo or De Aza, or unload Dunn.

 

Also, it really isn't that crazy of an idea that the team wants Davidson in AAA to start the year, or at least doesn't want to hand him the job. Plus, not starting his clock right away is really probably the best decision because if Davidson becomes as good as everyone hopes, he's gonna wind up being pretty expensive one day.