Astros C Jason Castro

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

That great year amounted to a 1.6 WAR.

 

You're the one who called it an outlier, as in, way above what would typically be expected of him. I never called his 1.6 WAR year a great year, but I also don't expect it to be his career high, not even close.

[BlackSox13]

Anyone who doesn't think Altuve wouldn't be an upgrade over Beckham is nuts. He's only 23 and having a 1-2 of Eaton and Altuve would be nice.

 

I'd definitely be a lot more willing to part with Quintana + some if it meant getting Castro and Altuve back. I don't know why they'd trade Altuve though, he's been their most consistent bat and has become a fan favorite.

Something like Q and one of Semien or Carlos Sanchez might intrigue them enough. This way the Astros get a replacement at second in the deal. The drawback to this would be the Sox most likely would need to replace Q with a free agent pitcher.

[coco1997]

The drawback to this would be the Sox most likely would need to replace Q with a free agent pitcher.

 

Sale

Tanaka

Danks

Johnson

Surkamp/Paulino/Rienzo

 

[Paulstar]

From purely looking at advanced metrics, hell all stats in general, Altuve is nothing special. However, if you know anything about the actual game of baseball and watch Altuve play, you'd know he's a damn good baseball player. Plays aggressive, probably has a chip on his shoulder because of his height, has a really good approach at bat with a short quick stroke, doesn't try and hit homers but put the ball in the gaps and down the lines, plays really good defense, and has 30+ sb potential. There isn't a whole lot not to like about the way he plays. Plus, when you consider who has batting around him and how he is still only 23 and likely hasn't reached his ceiling, there's a lot of hope for him to get even better.

[Wanne]

I'm sorry...but somebody explain to me again why the hell the Astros would even consider trading Castro?...do they have a stud C waiting in the wings?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I actually think Houston and the short porch in LF probably helped him sneak out a homer or two. With Altuve, you get your power from doubles and triples.

 

Looking at his spray chart from last year, he hit 5 HR in Houston's park, and he would have hit 5, possibly 6 HR in US Cellular.

[Paulstar]

You're the one who called it an outlier, as in, way above what would typically be expected of him. I never called his 1.6 WAR year a great year, but I also don't expect it to be his career high, not even close.

I don't think people realize he's only 23, gonna be 24. He's still not even close to his prime and has shown at a young age he knows how to hit MLB pitching.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I'm sorry...but somebody explain to me again why the hell the Astros would even consider trading Castro?...do they have a stud C waiting in the wings?

 

Max Stassi apparently, but I'm not sure why they'd prefer Stassi over Castro, unless they just figure they can rebuild a little through Castro and are crossing their fingers that Stassi is good enough.

[BlackSox13]

Sale

Tanaka

Danks

Johnson

Surkamp/Paulino/Rienzo

 

Works for me although Tanaka may end being too pricey for good old uncle jerry. Ervin Santana or Garza would be fine with me if it meant upgrading the offense with Castro and Altuve.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Let's say the Astros will give you Jason Castro for 4 unproven prospects in E Johnson, Danish, M Johnson, Hawkins and are not interested in moving Altuve... do you make that deal? All 4 guys are very intriguing, but only E Johnson looks like he's ready now. All have question marks, but there's lots of ceiling there.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Let's say the Astros will give you Jason Castro for 4 unproven prospects in E Johnson, Danish, M Johnson, Hawkins and are not interested in moving Altuve... do you make that deal? All 4 guys are very intriguing, but only E Johnson looks like he's ready now. All have question marks, but there's lots of ceiling there.

 

Hmmmm, there is probably an argument for both sides here, but I personally would say no, simply because the ceilings of all those guys are so massive, except for maybe Micah, who I don't want to give up on at all yet.

 

I'd rather see something like Nate Jones, Erik Johnson, and Snodgress but I don't know if Houston does that deal.

[coco1997]

I'm sorry...but somebody explain to me again why the hell the Astros would even consider trading Castro?...do they have a stud C waiting in the wings?

 

Yes, Max Stassi:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stassma01.shtml

[Paulstar]

My argument is that he doesn't provide enough extra value to warrant a trade. You didn't dispute that.

 

You have said:

1.) anyone who disagrees with you is nuts

2.) he's 23

3.) he'd be good as 1-2

 

1.) I don't have to explain why that's a bad argument.

2.) For such a low ceiling playing that we have many similar to, does that really matter that much? Service time is more important.

3.) 1-2 hitters are suppose to be OBP guys. That's something Altuve doesn't do well. So he doesn't strike out much, that doesn't give Abreu-Dunn someone to knock in.

 

1.) Don't get sensitive from me being facetious.

2.) Please tell me why 2012 and 2013 are Altuve's ceilings.

3.) Highly debatable. I'd say you'd want your best OBP guys at 1 and 3 in the lineup. Many people believe the 2 hole guy needs to be a guy who can handle the stick well and knows how to put the ball in play when needed. I don't see why, especially considering he's 5'5" with a small strike zone, that if he has some better talent around him and continues to improve as a hitter, that his walk rate won't increase to a point where his OBP is consistently in the .330-.350 range.

[BlackSox13]

Seeing as how Stassi doesnt look MLB ready we could include Phegley or Flowers in the deal so Houston has a catcher to hold them over til Stassi shows he's ready.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Hmmmm, there is probably an argument for both sides here, but I personally would say no, simply because the ceilings of all those guys are so massive, except for maybe Micah, who I don't want to give up on at all yet.

 

I'd rather see something like Nate Jones, Erik Johnson, and Snodgress but I don't know if Houston does that deal.

I like EJ but if I had Castro I wouldn't trade him for that.

 

If you had Castro yourself, and another team containing all the Sox prospects called on him, what would you take? I'd probably want one MLB ready piece (E Johnson) as the centerpiece and 3 guys from the pool of Danish, Beck, M Johnson, Hawkins, Barnum, Anderson. You'd want to make a deal that you don't feel like you'd end up regretting.

Edited January 6, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[The Ultimate Champion]

Seeing as how Stassi doesnt look MLB ready we could include Phegley or Flowers in the deal so Houston has a catcher to hold them over til Stassi shows he's ready.

That's a great idea. In fact, let's bowl them over with all our catchers.

[Paulstar]

I'm sorry...but somebody explain to me again why the hell the Astros would even consider trading Castro?...do they have a stud C waiting in the wings?

Trade him while his value is high for pitching, plus they probably view Stassi's bat playing better in Houston (and he's supposedly a stud defensively to).

[BlackSox13]

That's a great idea. In fact, let's bowl them over with all our catchers.

Take our catchers, please! I know our catchers aren't really worth squat but they can serve as stop gaps for Houston.

[ptatc]

Works for me although Tanaka may end being too pricey for good old uncle jerry. Ervin Santana or Garza would be fine with me if it meant upgrading the offense with Castro and Altuve.

Not pricey but too many years that's for sure.

[BlackSox13]

To think Houston sees Phegley or Flowers as a valuable is laughable. Maybe they think Phegley has potential or Flowers could be a decent back up but neither of these guys are going to be a significant part of any return.

Its not at all about value, its about giving Houston SOMETHING in return to hold them over til Stassi was ready. We all know the lack of value in our catchers.

[Paulstar]

I wasn't being sensitive it's just you had a post calling everyone crazy but your post lacked any bit of statistical or factual evidence so it was kind of ironic.

 

Please tell me why 2012 and 2013 are not Altuve's ceilings?

 

You say highly debatable that 1-2 guys are supposed to be OBP guys and then say 1-2-3 hitters should be your best OBP guys. He's also been 5'5" in his first 1500+ PAs where he put together a .323 OBP and a .307 wOBA.

 

What from this player makes you think we should trade talent for him when we have Beckham and Semien/Garcia/Sanchez/Johnson waiting in the wings.

Because he's a good baseball player. You look primarily at stats, I look at how he plays. I like Semien and have hope for him to be able to stick at SS. Garcia has major flaws with his offensive game, I view him as nothing more than a super utility type of player. Sanchez and Johnson are both still big question marks. Beckham has talent, and its so frustrating to watch him waste it. The only hope for Beckham is if the new hitting coach can get through to him and get him to change his approach.

 

Also, I'm not a big believer in the White Sox ability to develop hitters. The last good hitter actually developed by the White Sox was who? Carlos Lee? Joe Crede?

[Balta1701]

You know what? This is worthy of popping into it's own thread. I'm going to move those posts in here.

 

[BlackSox13]

Not pricey but too many years that's for sure.

The years and annual salary scare me I he gets what is being speculated. At least for a guys that's never pitched in the mlb.

[Paulstar]

Let's say the Astros will give you Jason Castro for 4 unproven prospects in E Johnson, Danish, M Johnson, Hawkins and are not interested in moving Altuve... do you make that deal? All 4 guys are very intriguing, but only E Johnson looks like he's ready now. All have question marks, but there's lots of ceiling there.

I wouldn't. Honestly, I might be in the minority here, but I'd rather trade Quintana than both Johnson and Danish. It'd be risky no doubt considering Quintana has been such a good pitcher. But deep down I still question how good Quintana actually is. I'm 50/50 on Quintana and he is one of those guys who you would either look like a genius or a dumbass if you traded now.

[Balta1701]

I wouldn't. Honestly, I might be in the minority here, but I'd rather trade Quintana than both Johnson and Danish. It'd be risky no doubt considering Quintana has been such a good pitcher. But deep down I still question how good Quintana actually is. I'm 50/50 on Quintana and he is one of those guys who you would either look like a genius or a dumbass if you traded now.

Based on the fact that they traded Santiago already, I'm going to bet that this coaching staff is very, very high on Quintana, and if this pitching coach says he can keep it up or get better...I wouldn't consider trading him for a catcher.