Rick Hahn approval poll

[Chicago White Sox]

I approve. I haven't loved every one one of his trades but when you look at the whole body of work, he clearly has a plan and I like the way he's going about things. And the Reed for Davidson deal is one of my favorite trades ever.

Exactly, I don't think anyone here can disagree with Hahn's vision. He's added youth to the major league roster, without sacrificing resources for the minors. Obviously getting that youth came at a cost (money, Peavy, Santiago, & Reed), but it's a price I'm sure most of us will have no problem paying if three of Abreu, Garcia, Eaton, & Davidson work out.

 

That's why it's impossible to truly judge Hahn just yet. He may have a great plan, but if he and his scouts can't pick the right players to draft and trade for, his vision could end up meaningless. So I give his vision an A+, but his performance a TBD.

[BlackSox13]

Approved. Its is early, but after KW a steamy pile of s*** would be a breath of fresh air. I like the moves Hahn has made so far and the house cleaning of KW's mess.

Edited January 10, 2014 by StRoostifer

[witesoxfan]

Approved. Its is early, but after KW a steamy pile of s*** would be a breath of fresh air. I like the moves Hahn has made so far and the house cleaning of KW's mess.

 

See, I don't necessarily agree with this, because I think this was something Williams wanted too. I just don't think he had or has the patience Hahn does. If the Sox thought Williams did a poor job, he would have been fired. Instead, he was promoted or, at the very least, re-assigned to a still very prestigious position.

 

My main problem with the Williams era is that the Sox simply didn't have depth. Depth affords you the opportunity to make moves either internally or externally.

[Quin]

See, I don't necessarily agree with this, because I think this was something Williams wanted too. I just don't think he had or has the patience Hahn does. If the Sox thought Williams did a poor job, he would have been fired. Instead, he was promoted or, at the very least, re-assigned to a still very prestigious position.

 

My main problem with the Williams era is that the Sox simply didn't have depth. Depth affords you the opportunity to make moves either internally or externally.

 

I remember Rick saying that Kenny had been wanting to start a rebuild for some years, but they were always closer to the playoffs than the bottom of the league so he made playoff pushes. 2013 was the first real year they could start a rebuild.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You can't judge on results yet, but you can judge on competency, aggressiveness, and direction, i.e. making moves that needed to be made, taking action, etc.

 

His mistakes: not trading Gavin Floyd, signing Keppinger, not getting better value out of Rios. I'll give him a pass on not dealing Crain because in the new QO era a reliever in the last year of his deal is probably more in demand mid-season; Hahn just got the short end of the stick on that because Crain would have brought in something decent had he not gotten hurt basically at the last minute. Floyd hurts, but Keppinger isn't that bad of a deal, and it isn't really going to hurt us or stop us from doing anything. And Rios could have been handled better, but the Sox needed money for Abreu so they had to dump him. Abreu is the better player so they made the right move there. In total, his mistakes probably haven't been too costly and probably aren't going to hold us back much.

 

His good moves (based on the logic behind them & necessity in lieu of actual results): the Lindstrom signing; the Hector & Reed trades - even though both Eaton and Davidson have some large question marks, the fact that both are MLB ready is a positive, and it is always nice to trade a quality/average closer for a starting position player; the Abreu signing which right now looks good but could be great; the Peavy signing - which isn't a great move IMO because I credit Peavy for that deal mostly (he left a lot of money on the table) but still a good move by Hahn to stick with the negotiations and not give up; the Peavy trade was a good move; also axing Manto as soon as he felt a change was necessary, that's a good move and a welcome departure from the Ozzie years where coaches who weren't getting through were kept around too long; there may be more that I am forgetting

 

His great/potentially franchise-altering moves: the Sale extension; maybe the Abreu signing ends up here as well

 

Overall I'd say that he's due at least a B and maybe as high as an A just based on getting done what needed to be done. He's made a few mistakes but they are more on the small side, and the biggest move he's made (extending Sale) far outweighs any of the mistakes. I like how he has been direct with the fans and media, not so coy like KW, and he's been active & aggressive enough to command respect & establish his leadership of the organization. I particularly like the handling of the Manto situation: he acted swiftly and got it done without airing any dirty laundry/bringing in unnecessary attention.

 

Some of these trades aren't going to work out, but the logical behind the moves were sound and the type of moves that have been made were necessary. I'm not going to shout out that he deserves at least an A and maybe an A+ because that's completely unrealistic; some of these decisions we're probably not going to be happy about in the long run. But there are 3 main aspects of the GM job as far as it relates to the on-field product: putting MLB talent on the field, including making the necessary moves to acquire that talent; putting the right coaching staff/personnel around that talent in order for it to meet or exceed expectations; and finally accumulating the individual player statistics and win-loss records necessary for a long-term winning organization. We don't know what the statisitics and win-loss record is going to be over the next several seasons, so that's inconclusive & we can't just give Hahn an A+ because we're psychic, but as far as making the moves to bring in talent while using the resources available, and as increasing the value of some of our best assets (Sale, keeping then trading Peavy when he looked out the door), and as far as managing his coaching staff, etc. I think Hahn has done well.

[BlackSox13]

See, I don't necessarily agree with this, because I think this was something Williams wanted too. I just don't think he had or has the patience Hahn does. If the Sox thought Williams did a poor job, he would have been fired. Instead, he was promoted or, at the very least, re-assigned to a still very prestigious position.

 

My main problem with the Williams era is that the Sox simply didn't have depth. Depth affords you the opportunity to make moves either internally or externally.

KW did well in the beginning, but after a while he began to remind me a bit of Jim Hendry. I kind of give KW a pass on Dunn because at the time of the signing it would have been hard to imagine Dunn would be the bust he's turned out to be. Not all moves work out and i do understand this but imo, KW teams relied to heavily on the long ball and not enough athleticism beginning in 06 and got worse from there. This is just my opinion of course and the subject is debatable.

 

I agree with the lack of depth. The Sox didnt draft well and KW traded potential depth, both contributed to this although I admit I can't recall any depth being traded that developed into anything special. I also agree Hahn having more patience which is needed during this turn around.

[Dick Allen]

People need to keep in mind KW kept guys like BA, and Morel and for a little while, Fields, traded for Lillibridge and Castro and Flowers. These guys were all ranked as high or nearly as high as the Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

It all depends on how they play.

[Reddy]

People need to keep in mind KW kept guys like BA, and Morel and for a little while, Fields, traded for Lillibridge and Castro and Flowers. These guys were all ranked as high or nearly as high as the Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

It all depends on how they play.

NONE of those guys were ever ranked or touted like Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

You just think that because you're a white sox fan. If you weren't you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

[Dick Allen]

NONE of those guys were ever ranked or touted like Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

You just think that because you're a white sox fan. If you weren't you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

You should go back and check where they were ranked as prospects on their Baseball-Reference pages. You will be in for a surprise.

[The Ultimate Champion]

NONE of those guys were ever ranked or touted like Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

You just think that because you're a white sox fan. If you weren't you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

Brian Anderson & Ryan Sweeney both were better prospects than Eaton & Davidson. So was arguably Jeremy Reed who was near MLB-ready when Kenny traded him.

 

Garcia has a lot of ability, but just last June I was getting s*** from this very board proposing Reed for Garcia straight-up. Half this board didn't even like the guy a month before we acquired him.

 

Also Josh Fields made a huge impression when he got here. He looked like a possible 40HR guy.

 

Kenny has kept a lot of players rated as high or higher than these guys. Lots of them. He once helped develop the best system in baseball for the Sox, and most of those prospects that inflated the value of the system didn't turn into anything.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You should go back and check where they were ranked as prospects on their Baseball-Reference pages. You will be in for a surprise.

It makes you wonder what the Sox would have been able to receive had they traded Borchard, Wright, Rauch, etc. at the heights of their values as prospects. Of course, back then prospects weren't as overvalued as they are now.

[Jake]

See, I don't necessarily agree with this, because I think this was something Williams wanted too. I just don't think he had or has the patience Hahn does. If the Sox thought Williams did a poor job, he would have been fired. Instead, he was promoted or, at the very least, re-assigned to a still very prestigious position.

 

My main problem with the Williams era is that the Sox simply didn't have depth. Depth affords you the opportunity to make moves either internally or externally.

 

There have been articles about KW going to JR after 2010 and 2011 and proposing that they do a rebuild, but he was told to keep pushing

[Balta1701]

Garcia has a lot of ability, but just last June I was getting s*** from this very board proposing Reed for Garcia straight-up. Half this board didn't even like the guy a month before we acquired him.

And that was still correct, IMO.

[ILMOU]

Voted approve/agree that it's premature.

 

The major source of my anxiety is that the two guys from AZ only achieved upper-level success in the PCL, and those types of guys are numerous, and dicey. Cautious optimism.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[NorthSideSox72]

It makes you wonder what the Sox would have been able to receive had they traded Borchard, Wright, Rauch, etc. at the heights of their values as prospects. Of course, back then prospects weren't as overvalued as they are now.

Borchard got Thornton, so that was pretty damn good.

 

[Eminor3rd]

Gurick voted disapprove because he didn't believe Hahn should be a unanimous selection

Edited January 10, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[Eminor3rd]

NONE of those guys were ever ranked or touted like Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

You just think that because you're a white sox fan. If you weren't you'd have never heard of any of those guys.

 

Flowers and Fields were both very highly touted. Castro's star had already fallen when we got him.

[southsider2k5]

Gurick voted disapprove because he didn't believe Hahn should be a unanimous selection

 

Well played.

[Reddy]

Brian Anderson & Ryan Sweeney both were better prospects than Eaton & Davidson. So was arguably Jeremy Reed who was near MLB-ready when Kenny traded him.

 

Garcia has a lot of ability, but just last June I was getting s*** from this very board proposing Reed for Garcia straight-up. Half this board didn't even like the guy a month before we acquired him.

 

Also Josh Fields made a huge impression when he got here. He looked like a possible 40HR guy.

 

Kenny has kept a lot of players rated as high or higher than these guys. Lots of them. He once helped develop the best system in baseball for the Sox, and most of those prospects that inflated the value of the system didn't turn into anything.

 

Anderson never hit the way Eaton has. In AAA Anderson had a high OPS of .827

 

Eaton? .995 in AAA

 

They're worlds apart.

 

And guess what? Sweeney turned into a valuable and productive major leaguer!

[caulfield12]

I don't think Lindstrom really counts as a positive or negative at this point.

 

Belisario IMO is perhaps more likely to be the break-out candidate, or Paulino.

 

 

Some of the negativity about Keppinger has simply been the fact that 1) Rays players never seen to excel outside of Tampa and 2) we already went through a similar situation overvaluing Teahen, so this look like a rehash. And just being on the wrong side of "buy low/sell high" which was pretty predictable from the beginning.

 

Finding Gillaspie to at least man 3B turned out to be a pretty decent move, too.

 

As a huge Santiago fan, I fear we'll go through a period like we did with Daniel Hudson where his success elsewhere will be magnified if we don't get enough production out of Eaton.

 

 

 

 

[Reddy]

I don't think Lindstrom really counts as a positive or negative at this point.

 

Belisario IMO is perhaps more likely to be the break-out candidate, or Paulino.

 

 

Some of the negativity about Keppinger has simply been the fact that 1) Rays players never seen to excel outside of Tampa and 2) we already went through a similar situation overvaluing Teahen, so this look like a rehash. And just being on the wrong side of "buy low/sell high" which was pretty predictable from the beginning.

 

Finding Gillaspie to at least man 3B turned out to be a pretty decent move, too.

 

As a huge Santiago fan, I fear we'll go through a period like we did with Daniel Hudson where his success elsewhere will be magnified if we don't get enough production out of Eaton.

 

I'm much more worried about Davidson and Garcia than I am about Eaton tbh

[Dick Allen]

Anderson never hit the way Eaton has. In AAA Anderson had a high OPS of .827

 

Eaton? .995 in AAA

 

They're worlds apart.

 

And guess what? Sweeney turned into a valuable and productive major leaguer!

Anderson didn't play in Reno. BA also was once rated the #37th best prospect. Eaton hasn't sniffed that. All that really matters is how he plays in the major leagues. Hopefully he is world's apart from BA, but the fact is, prospects rated in the 70s really isn't anything new for the White Sox. Perhaps these will pan out. That would be new.

[Paulstar]

People need to keep in mind KW kept guys like BA, and Morel and for a little while, Fields, traded for Lillibridge and Castro and Flowers. These guys were all ranked as high or nearly as high as the Garcia, Eaton and Davidson.

 

It all depends on how they play.

Maybe BA, Fields, and MAYBE Flowers were pretty highly ranked, but by the time the White Sox got Lillibridge and Castro both were losing their status. And maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm almost positive Morel was never highly ranked.

 

Plus, I think you also need to look at what type of players Garcia, Eaton, and Davidson are compared to the other guys. All of them were acquired when they have been MLB ready and have already gotten their feet wet in the show. The only one you listed like that was Lillibridge but as I already said, his stock was already plummeting by the time he got to Chicago. Honestly, the only one that I'll concede to you is Davidson because he is probably the most raw of all three.

 

However, it does make me wonder who in the hell is scouting guys like Fields and Flowers. Both guys were highly talked about, and then you see them come up and play, and at least for me, you ask yourself how in the world did this guy make it to the majors. Both guys have/had huge mechanical flaws in their swings and never really showed a good feeling for hitting. I completely understand why someone like Ryan Sweeney or Gordon Beckham get highly ranked as prospects because they have the tools and natural hitting ability to be good hitters. I feel like a good portion of Fields' hype was because he was a really good athlete and people said if he ever learns how to become a baseball player he'll be good. And I think if Flowers couldn't play catcher and was a 1B/DH guy, he would have never been considered a decent prospect to begin with.

[caulfield12]

I'm much more worried about Davidson and Garcia than I am about Eaton tbh

 

 

 

 

Part of this is also simply the psychological element of not being as concerned about giving up Addison Reed and getting out from under that supposed "bargain/team friendly" Peavy contract.

[caulfield12]

Maybe BA, Fields, and MAYBE Flowers were pretty highly ranked, but by the time the White Sox got Lillibridge and Castro both were losing their status. And maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm almost positive Morel was never highly ranked.

 

Plus, I think you also need to look at what type of players Garcia, Eaton, and Davidson are compared to the other guys. All of them were acquired when they have been MLB ready and have already gotten their feet wet in the show. The only one you listed like that was Lillibridge but as I already said, his stock was already plummeting by the time he got to Chicago. Honestly, the only one that I'll concede to you is Davidson because he is probably the most raw of all three.

 

However, it does make me wonder who in the hell is scouting guys like Fields and Flowers. Both guys were highly talked about, and then you see them come up and play, and at least for me, you ask yourself how in the world did this guy make it to the majors. Both guys have/had huge mechanical flaws in their swings and never really showed a good feeling for hitting. I completely understand why someone like Ryan Sweeney or Gordon Beckham get highly ranked as prospects because they have the tools and natural hitting ability to be good hitters. I feel like a good portion of Fields' hype was because he was a really good athlete and people said if he ever learns how to become a baseball player he'll be good. And I think if Flowers couldn't play catcher and was a 1B/DH guy, he would have never been considered a decent prospect to begin with.

 

Borchard, Fields, Anderson, Morel (at least one time, 90% sure it was around 85-100) and Beckham were all Top 100 guys.

 

If Flowers was, it would have been right after that AFL season when he was still with the Braves.

 

Sweeney might have snuck in there once as well, but it would have been in the last 15-20 selections because of the concerns about him developing enough power for a corner outfield spot or possibly 1B.