Grab a SP now

[TheFutureIsNear]

Garza went for less than expected so the timing makes a ton of sense to grab a guy like Santana right now. We would have to give up a comp pick (2nd round), but either A) you keep him and he makes a reasonable $14M-$15M per year. B) You flip him next year and get back a ton more than the 2nd round pick or C) he flops and Jerry can only go to the Bahamas twice this year .

 

But seriously, with a seemingly down market and SP always held at a premium at the trade deadline I think it makes a ton of sense. Of course I'm realistic and realize there is a very slim chance of this actually happening.

 

 

[ScottyDo]

Garza went for less than expected so the timing makes a ton of sense to grab a guy like Santana right now. We would have to give up a comp pick (2nd round), but either A) you keep him and he makes a reasonable $14M-$15M per year. B) You flip him next year and get back a ton more than the 2nd round pick or C) he flops and Jerry can only go to the Bahamas twice this year .

 

But seriously, with a seemingly down market and SP always held at a premium at the trade deadline I think it makes a ton of sense. Of course I'm realistic and realize there is a very slim chance of this actually happening.

To what end? How many games do you expect us to win with and without a short-term veteran pitching contract? Why not try to develop a prospect internally for free instead? There's no risk there, because we weren't winning this year anyway.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Agree 1000000%

 

If it's $14M per or less & at 4 years or less you f***in do this s*** right now

 

Trade the player after 1 year or keep him

 

We sign a guy like Ubaldo or Santana, and if we get good years out of that guy AND Danks next year then Hahn has serious negotiating power next offseason.

 

DO IT

[greg775]

The future is not near and the White Sox should not go for a Santana/Jimenez.

 

Interesting that Garza only got 13 AAV and isn't even tied to draft pick compensation. Santana/Jimenez's camps can't be happy with that. I am starting to wonder if one of these guys get Kyle Loshe'd.

 

It's like some people suddenly don't even want to compete for a few years, thinking it means we are in total rebuild mode. We STILL have a lot of veterans on this team and a lot of good pitchers on this team. We play in a HORSEs*** division. Detroit just lost a Hall of Fame manager and Fielder. We could win this thing if we added a good veteran starter/inning eater/winner and a catcher who can hit.

 

Now if you are saying our defense is so putrid, so horrific, that we cannot compete, perhaps I can buy that argument. But aside from defense, adding a starter like Santana and a good catcher and we should be a contender.

[TheFutureIsNear]

To what end? How many games do you expect us to win with and without a short-term veteran pitching contract? Why not try to develop a prospect internally for free instead? There's no risk there, because we weren't winning this year anyway.

 

Trust me, I've been all aboard the rebuilding train for a longer than most and fully realize the Sox aren't going to win much this year. But with all that said, you have to realize a good investment opportunity when you see 1. Its like a really nice piece of real estate going for sale way under market value. If you have the $ you have to at least consider it. Santana has shown the ability to pitch like a legit #2 starter and to get that guy at $14M per season should be considered a pretty big steal.

Edited January 23, 2014 by TheFutureIsNear

[ScottyDo]

It's like some people suddenly don't even want to compete for a few years, thinking it means we are in total rebuild mode. We STILL have a lot of veterans on this team and a lot of good pitchers on this team. We play in a HORSEs*** division. Detroit just lost a Hall of Fame manager and Fielder. We could win this thing if we added a good veteran starter/inning eater/winner and a catcher who can hit.

 

Now if you are saying our defense is so putrid, so horrific, that we cannot compete, perhaps I can buy that argument. But aside from defense, adding a starter like Santana and a good catcher and we should be a contender.

We lost almost 100 games last year. Even if this division is as putrid as you say, we'll need at least 85 wins. We have surely upgraded somewhat, largely in future returns, but do you think we got 22 wins in the offseason? Please list these wins and where they came from.

 

Two of the biggest acquisitions this offseason were Eaton and Davidson. Both of those may be key factors in the future, but they are not at ALL dependable for production in 2014. Each is more likely to be below-average than above. The reason we signed them is to develop long-term into dependable producers.

 

What I don't get is the impatience. Do you guys think there won't be a Santana-esque pitcher on the market next year? This is not a particularly well-saturated offseason for free agent pitching.

[southsider2k5]

Garza went for less than expected so the timing makes a ton of sense to grab a guy like Santana right now. We would have to give up a comp pick (2nd round), but either A) you keep him and he makes a reasonable $14M-$15M per year. B) You flip him next year and get back a ton more than the 2nd round pick or C) he flops and Jerry can only go to the Bahamas twice this year .

 

But seriously, with a seemingly down market and SP always held at a premium at the trade deadline I think it makes a ton of sense. Of course I'm realistic and realize there is a very slim chance of this actually happening.

 

Who? And for how much?

[hi8is]

Who? And for how much?

I'll throw 200 innings for a cool million, post taxes... Of course.

Excuse me, I've gotta get some ice on my money maker.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The nice thing about trading a proven MLB starter who is in demand is that you can get value in terms of players who are ready right now. Case in point, the Garza-to-Texas deal last year brought back Mike Olt & Justin Grimm, at depreciated values of course, but also near-MLB ready former top prospects. You get one crack at a draft pick, and while I wouldn't like to lose such a high second rounder, I'd do it looking to turn that pick around in 1-2 years.

[hogan873]

It's like some people suddenly don't even want to compete for a few years, thinking it means we are in total rebuild mode. We STILL have a lot of veterans on this team and a lot of good pitchers on this team. We play in a HORSEs*** division. Detroit just lost a Hall of Fame manager and Fielder. We could win this thing if we added a good veteran starter/inning eater/winner and a catcher who can hit.

 

Now if you are saying our defense is so putrid, so horrific, that we cannot compete, perhaps I can buy that argument. But aside from defense, adding a starter like Santana and a good catcher and we should be a contender.

Detroit is still a good team. The AL Central has not been a horsedung division for a few years now. I think it will require less wins to take the division this year, but I would say the winning team is going to need at least 85-86 wins. Adding a veteran starting pitcher over going with Johnson/Surkamp/Rienzo is not going to get the Sox substantially more wins. I don't understand the fascination with spending money on a SP just to spend money. Don't confuse the fact that the Sox were willing to spend $20MM per on Tanaka with their willingness to spend money on another starter...especially one that might be with the team for only a year.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Who? And for how much?

 

Ervin Santana for 4/56. Just turned 31 last month and has posted sub 4 ERA with 210+ innings pitched 3 out of the past 4 years. Sounds like a steal to me.

[BigHurt3515]

Ervin Santana for 4/56. Just turned 31 last month and has posted sub 4 ERA with 210+ innings pitched 3 out of the past 4 years. Sounds like a steal to me.

 

No! Why should we spend a money on him?? I would rather have younger guys or one of the cheap guys we signed get a chance.. I think it would be stupid to spend that kind of money on a veteran pitcher.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Detroit is still a good team. The AL Central has not been a horsedung division for a few years now. I think it will require less wins to take the division this year, but I would say the winning team is going to need at least 85-86 wins. Adding a veteran starting pitcher over going with Johnson/Surkamp/Rienzo is not going to get the Sox substantially more wins. I don't understand the fascination with spending money on a SP just to spend money. Don't confuse the fact that the Sox were willing to spend $20MM per on Tanaka with their willingness to spend money on another starter...especially one that might be with the team for only a year.

 

Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact.

 

And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere.

Edited January 23, 2014 by TheFutureIsNear

[ScottyDo]

Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact.

 

And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere.

Why take the risk now when you could take it in 2015 then? If all the acquisitions we just made fall flat on their faces, then you just paid a bunch of money for nothing.

Edited January 23, 2014 by ScottyDo

[Jake]

I don't know why you would ever want to give a 30+ year old pitcher a long free agent contract. These almost never work out, especially beyond the first season

[greg775]

We lost almost 100 games last year. Even if this division is as putrid as you say, we'll need at least 85 wins. We have surely upgraded somewhat, largely in future returns, but do you think we got 22 wins in the offseason? Please list these wins and where they came from.

 

Two of the biggest acquisitions this offseason were Eaton and Davidson. Both of those may be key factors in the future, but they are not at ALL dependable for production in 2014. Each is more likely to be below-average than above. The reason we signed them is to develop long-term into dependable producers.

 

What I don't get is the impatience. Do you guys think there won't be a Santana-esque pitcher on the market next year? This is not a particularly well-saturated offseason for free agent pitching.

 

It's our last year of the big bopper/whiff king Adam Dunn. It's Konerko's last year. We have Chris Sale for gosh sakes. We allegedly have a starting staff that can compete. We have allegedly a decent bullpen albeit no closer, which is a concern. I'm just saying we have the payroll to work with. Add a starting pitcher, pray the bullpen is finally consistent, add a bat at catcher (we can still trade Beckham and DeAza and be OK with Semien filling in for Becks) and we might win the freaking division and save Robin's job.

[hogan873]

Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact.

 

And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere.

That was my point. Why spend money on a veteran SP for a year just to bring in a veteran SP. I don't see the Sox signing a veteran SP for 3-4 years. That's the kind of move they are shying away from. Bringing in Tanaka would have been keeping in line with what they have been doing: building for the future. Signing a 32 year old pitcher for 2014 doesn't do anything for the future, unless they're counting on said pitcher being great and then trading him for prospects at the deadline.

[witesoxfan]

Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact.

 

And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere.

 

Unfortunately for you, the White Sox do care, and for the long-term health of the rotation and the team, that's a good thing. If Paulino/Rienzo/Surkamp can turn into a 4.00 ERA sort of pitcher with promise to continue improving, then they can allot that money elsewhere.

 

Tanaka was a special scenario as he fit a very specific and criteria for signing him. The remaining free agents are not.

[ScottyDo]

It's our last year of the big bopper/whiff king Adam Dunn. It's Konerko's last year. We have Chris Sale for gosh sakes. We allegedly have a starting staff that can compete. We have allegedly a decent bullpen albeit no closer, which is a concern. I'm just saying we have the payroll to work with. Add a starting pitcher, pray the bullpen is finally consistent, add a bat at catcher (we can still trade Beckham and DeAza and be OK with Semien filling in for Becks) and we might win the freaking division and save Robin's job.

Sure. We'll have that next year, too, if we don't spend it on a veteran pitcher in 2014. So, why now and not in 2015 when we might theoretically be better? Are Santana and Jimenez so attractive to you guys that you think we'd be wasting resources by choosing to get someone next year rather than this year?

[TheFutureIsNear]

Why take the risk now when you could take it in 2015 then? If all the acquisitions we just made fall flat on their faces, then you just paid a bunch of money for nothing.

 

There won't be any SP's of the same quality of Ervin Santana available for $14M per year next year, or any year. That is the point of the entire thread and idea. For whatever reason the market for SP's has completely dried up at this point and its a good time to capitalize. $14M a year is almost nothing for a SP recently, why not take a chance on 1 that just put up a 3.2 ERA? I have no idea why anybody wouldn't want to do that.

[Balta1701]

Sure. We'll have that next year, too, if we don't spend it on a veteran pitcher in 2014. So, why now and not in 2015 when we might theoretically be better? Are Santana and Jimenez so attractive to you guys that you think we'd be wasting resources by choosing to get someone next year rather than this year?

Furthermore...if hypothetically we don't spend $12 million this year, and the result would be appreciably the same (perhaps the difference between 75 and 78 wins or something like that), then we're left with an extra $12 million to spend next year.

 

That could, for example, be the difference between offering a pitcher $12 million a year next year and $16 million a year. If we want to spend money on a pitcher...saving some money now could offer us the funds to target one of the real serious guys next year.

[witesoxfan]

There won't be any SP's of the same quality of Ervin Santana available for $14M per year next year, or any year. That is the point of the entire thread and idea. For whatever reason the market for SP's has completely dried up at this point and its a good time to capitalize. $14M a year is almost nothing for a SP recently, why not take a chance on 1 that just put up a 3.2 ERA? I have no idea why anybody wouldn't want to do that.

 

You apparently hate Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, and Homer Bailey, among others.

[GreenSox]

Garza went for less than expected so the timing makes a ton of sense to grab a guy like Santana right now. We would have to give up a comp pick (2nd round), but either A) you keep him and he makes a reasonable $14M-$15M per year. B) You flip him next year and get back a ton more than the 2nd round pick or C) he flops and Jerry can only go to the Bahamas twice this year .

 

But seriously, with a seemingly down market and SP always held at a premium at the trade deadline I think it makes a ton of sense. Of course I'm realistic and realize there is a very slim chance of this actually happening.

Both of the top guys are inconsistent as heck, and have a draft choice attached. Frankly, I can't imagine anyone signing them.

And we're trying to get a farm system up to merely average levels, so no way do we give up a draft choice.

[ILMOU]

You apparently hate Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, and Homer Bailey, among others.

 

Also Shields, Masterson, De La Rosa (underrated), maybe Scherzer, Lester... next year is a relative bumper crop. I don't see the hurry.

 

The catching situation, OTOH, looked better from an opportunity standpoint this year than next. We need to make a trade at some point - no later than mid-season, hopefully.

[Marty34]

Furthermore...if hypothetically we don't spend $12 million this year, and the result would be appreciably the same (perhaps the difference between 75 and 78 wins or something like that), then we're left with an extra $12 million to spend next year.

 

That could, for example, be the difference between offering a pitcher $12 million a year next year and $16 million a year. If we want to spend money on a pitcher...saving some money now could offer us the funds to target one of the real serious guys next year.

 

Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year.