witesoxfan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year. Because you have no idea what the market is going to look like next year or what shape the White Sox rotation will be. There's no need for a starter this year. Let guys figure it out. If you need a starter that badly, accomodations can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 05:56 PM) There won't be any SP's of the same quality of Ervin Santana available for $14M per year next year, or any year. That is the point of the entire thread and idea. For whatever reason the market for SP's has completely dried up at this point and its a good time to capitalize. $14M a year is almost nothing for a SP recently, why not take a chance on 1 that just put up a 3.2 ERA? I have no idea why anybody wouldn't want to do that. Ervin Santana had a solid year last year. The year before that he gave up 39 home runs in 178 IP. That's....just monstrous. There's a reason he's gonna get an affordable contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) Ervin Santana for 4/56. Just turned 31 last month and has posted sub 4 ERA with 210+ innings pitched 3 out of the past 4 years. Sounds like a steal to me. I'd rather kick myself in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year. We really don't know what the market will command. Garza might be relatively cheap because GM's finally came to their senses. They ALL might be relatively cheap, this year and next, due to the escalating perceived value of the draft pick. I look back at our last three 2nd rounders, EJohnson, Beck and Danish, and I wouldn't want to part with any of them - this year's 2nd round pick will be higher than any of those, in a supposedly deeper draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year. And one of the reasons the Cubs couldn't blow everyone away was the ill-advised Edwin Jackson contract, just like we have Dunn/Danks/Keppinger on the books. We would be much better off addressing catcher and some of the line-up holes (that are clear at the end of 2014) than throwing money at another veteran starter when we just did so with Paulino. There's no guarantee our bullpen won't pitch like the 2007 version did, we just traded away our closer, after all, and there's no patently obvious candidate to replace him. Let's say the catching situation is a disaster and so is the bullpen in 2014. Wouldn't you rather have $16 million to spend on a catcher (pretty much in line with the Salty contract) and another veteran arm or two in the bullpen who could evolve into another version of Jason Grilli? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) We really don't know what the market will command. Garza might be relatively cheap because GM's finally came to their senses. They ALL might be relatively cheap, this year and next, due to the escalating perceived value of the draft pick. I look back at our last three 2nd rounders, EJohnson, Beck and Danish, and I wouldn't want to part with any of them - this year's 2nd round pick will be higher than any of those, in a supposedly deeper draft. And there's far from any guarantee that Grimm or Olt will do anything with the Cubs. Grabbing guys with the primary purpose of turning around and trading them doesn't work as well when the financial risk is in Edwin Jackson territory. If you look at Santana's results over the last 3-4 years, you're more likely to get Edwin Jackson 2013 than a repeat of Erwin Santana 2013. In fact, Bryant's more than likely to be their 3B of the future unless they diminish his value by sticking him out in LF. Edited January 23, 2014 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) [/b] We really don't know what the market will command. Garza might be relatively cheap because GM's finally came to their senses. They ALL might be relatively cheap, this year and next, due to the escalating perceived value of the draft pick. I look back at our last three 2nd rounders, EJohnson, Beck and Danish, and I wouldn't want to part with any of them - this year's 2nd round pick will be higher than any of those, in a supposedly deeper draft. I think it's safe to say the Sox will be outbid for the top of the market, Lester, Scherzer, Bailey, Masterson, and Shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Am I the only one who thinks Andre Rienzo has potential to be a really solid starter in this league, maybe even as good as a no 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Just have to grow your own, as long as teams lose a high draft choice for signing one of these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:08 PM) Am I the only one who thinks Andre Rienzo has potential to be a really solid starter in this league, maybe even as good as a no 3. In my eyes he's a fringe long man / 5th starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 08:00 PM) I think it's safe to say the Sox will be outbid for the top of the market, Lester, Scherzer, Bailey, Masterson, and Shields. Those pitchers have much better profiles than Santana or Jimenez. If Santana or Jimenez looked like those guys, they would not be bargains any year including this one. And the timing right now is crappy anyway, given our timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) And one of the reasons the Cubs couldn't blow everyone away was the ill-advised Edwin Jackson contract, just like we have Dunn/Danks/Keppinger on the books. We would be much better off addressing catcher and some of the line-up holes (that are clear at the end of 2014) than throwing money at another veteran starter when we just did so with Paulino. There's no guarantee our bullpen won't pitch like the 2007 version did, we just traded away our closer, after all, and there's no patently obvious candidate to replace him. Let's say the catching situation is a disaster and so is the bullpen in 2014. Wouldn't you rather have $16 million to spend on a catcher (pretty much in line with the Salty contract) and another veteran arm or two in the bullpen who could evolve into another version of Jason Grilli? Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 05:12 PM) Those pitchers have much better profiles than Santana or Jimenez. If Santana or Jimenez looked like those guys, they would not be bargains any year including this one. And the timing right now is crappy anyway, given our timeline. Jimenez could be a real bargain if Garza only went for $52M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) Jimenez could be a real bargain if Garza only went for $52M. Give a number that would be your maximum contract so that I can laugh at it please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:08 PM) Am I the only one who thinks Andre Rienzo has potential to be a really solid starter in this league, maybe even as good as a no 3. He has a really big curveball and a fastball in the low 90's. He needs to learn a number of things...to change speeds on both pitches and to improve his control with both pitches, but both of those are learnable with time. He doesn't have Chris Sale's makeup, but if he can learn how to "pitch" he has the ability to be a middle of the rotation starter with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Blech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Maybe Paulino/Surkamp/Rienzo turn into something this year. Maybe a version of first year Humber (who we should then promptly trade). Maybe Beck, Danish or possibly Kolek/Hoffman turns into a big thing. We can afford to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:13 PM) He has a really big curveball and a fastball in the low 90's. He needs to learn a number of things...to change speeds on both pitches and to improve his control with both pitches, but both of those are learnable with time. He doesn't have Chris Sale's makeup, but if he can learn how to "pitch" he has the ability to be a middle of the rotation starter with time. He'll be 26 y.o. next year. I guess you think he'll be that mid-rotation starter for the next rebuild. Edited January 24, 2014 by Marty34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) I think it's safe to say the Sox will be outbid for the top of the market, Lester, Scherzer, Bailey, Masterson, and Shields. I don't. They just spent $68 million on an unknown, and were willing to spend $140M more had they landed MT. That's $208M bucks! We've got great even better payroll flexibility to go after one of those top guys next offseason, if that's our big need for '15 and beyond. I like all of them. Edited January 24, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Garza hasn't sign. Speculation is something is wrong with the physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) Maybe Paulino/Surkamp/Rienzo turn into something this year. Maybe a version of first year Humber (who we should then promptly trade). Maybe Beck, Danish or possibly Kolek/Hoffman turns into a big thing. We can afford to wait. But why wait? It's not like next year will be the year the Sox outbid anyone for the top of the SP market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShandyMan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Players at where we will be drafting for the pick we'd give up are gonna be HIGH talent players. Not even close to being worth Jimenez or anyone like that. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:34 PM) I don't. They just spent $68 million on an unknown, and were willing to spend $140M more had they landed MT. That's $208M bucks! We've got great payroll flexibility to go after one of those top guys, if that's our big need for '15 and beyond. The were outbid on Tanaka though and the biggest spenders weren't in on Abreau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 07:34 PM) But why wait? It's not like next year will be the year the Sox outbid anyone for the top of the SP market. So based on the fact that you're probably right about this....we should outbid people at the lower end of this year's SP market because...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 06:38 PM) So based on the fact that you're probably right about this....we should outbid people at the lower end of this year's SP market because...? It will save them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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